What is a successful hunt?

[mark knapp]

That’s loser talk. I guess it’s a way to justify when you don’t kill something. Why not have both? One without the other is failure.

Facts.

Really, you don't even know me. You sure have a lot to say about a guy you don't even know.

 

[Patsfan54]

Wait a minute. Going on a float is not a hunt? I have killed lots of animals on floats. At what point does a float become a hunt? Lots of people float hunt. I glass a lot on a float, I stop and climb hills and glass.

I had a really good conversation with lots of people with this post. I'm not sure what you mean by "fishing expedition" Please come out and tell me what you mean by that.

Like you just said in the previous post "Killing is the point at which you pull the trigger. Hunting is everything you do before the killing. I like hunting very much but I do not need to kill something to hunt for it." You can kill something without hunting it. Going on a float isn't a hunt, going on a float hunt is a hunt, carrying a rifle on a float in the off chance you happen upon a stupid/unlucky animal isn't hunting, it's a float that you then decide to kill an animal on. I don't go on a black bear hunt everyday I look out my window, but I get black bear tags every year in case there's one out my window one day. I don't go on a moose hunt everyday of moose season when I look out my window, but I get a moose tag every year in case there's one out my window one day.

Depending on the dictionary the basic definition of hunt is to pursue and kill (a wild animal) for sport or food. Floating down a river without the intention or purpose of pursuing game to kill means you are floating down a river. If you are floating down a river with the intention and purpose of killing game then you are on a float hunt. It's like the difference in taking a hike or hunting, except you're in a boat/raft

 

[mark knapp]

I understand what you were saying here, but there is a difference between a float trip and a hunt. Sure, one can include the other, but I believe you were talking about two distinctively different things.

Obviously, there is a huge difference between going out on a trip just to get away from things and going out on a trip with the purpose of a hunt. Just because you have a weapon on you doesn’t make it the same thing.

I'm sorry, I don't make that many distinctions. If it's before moose season and I am fishing, it's a fishing trip. If it's during a moose season, and I have a rifle and a tag, I'm on a float hunt.

I go out to get away from things a lot, about ten times a year. Some times its during a hunting season and sometimes it's not. When it's during a hunting season the only thing that it different is, I'm carrying a tag too.

I see where you are going and I am beginning to see why some people see a difference. I don't see a difference. Float hunting is just a mode of transportation lust like any other. It could be a 4 wheeler, a jet boat, or hiking. Of course it depends a lot what you do in between traveling.

I've guided a lot and we hunt big game from a raft a lot. We kill enough right from the seat of a raft to not call it a hunt.

Thanks for you thoughts.

 

[Patsfan54]

I’ve got problems but that isn’t it. The fat helps in making a great tasting steak. Wild game just doesn’t have that.

I tend to my meat just fine. And I’m sure I’m just as good a cook or better than most the posters here.

Grind up a lb of moose and make a burger. Do the same with cow. No one is going to ask for seconds on the moose.

Same with steak.

Never had a problem with ground game burger when cooked right, with or without added fat. If you cook it right it's delicious and dripping with juices, if you don't know how to cook, well that's a different story. Could be you aren't as good as a cook as you think and need all the additional fat to hide that fact...

Here's the best way to tell if you are a good cook, make a moose burger and make a cow burger. If no one asks for seconds on the moose, you're not a good cook.

Fact.

 

[mark knapp]

Like you just said in the previous post "Killing is the point at which you pull the trigger. Hunting is everything you do before the killing. I like hunting very much but I do not need to kill something to hunt for it." You can kill something without hunting it. Going on a float isn't a hunt, going on a float hunt is a hunt, carrying a rifle on a float in the off chance you happen upon a stupid/unlucky animal isn't hunting, it's a float that you then decide to kill an animal on. I don't go on a black bear hunt everyday I look out my window, but I get black bear tags every year in case there's one out my window one day. I don't go on a moose hunt everyday of moose season when I look out my window, but I get a moose tag every year in case there's one out my window one day.

Depending on the dictionary the basic definition of hunt is to pursue and kill (a wild animal) for sport or food. Floating down a river without the intention or purpose of pursuing game to kill means you are floating down a river. If you are floating down a river with the intention and purpose of killing game then you are on a float hunt. It's like the difference in taking a hike or hunting, except you're in a boat/raft

I think you are talking in circles. On every float I go on during moose season I have a harvest ticket, and I intend to kill a moose if one presents itself, I just don't NEED to kill one. You have never been with us on one of these hunts so you do not know if we are hunting or not.

When ever I'm in the woods, I am quiet. My rifle is always at the ready. We glass with binoculars and we have been know to kill quite a bit of game on these floats. Sounds a lot like hunting to me.

You may be aware of a different kind of float.

The raft is only a means of transportation like any other.

You still haven't told me what kind of a "fishing expedition" this thread is.

 

[mark knapp]

Like you just said in the previous post "Killing is the point at which you pull the trigger. Hunting is everything you do before the killing. I like hunting very much but I do not need to kill something to hunt for it." You can kill something without hunting it. Going on a float isn't a hunt, going on a float hunt is a hunt, carrying a rifle on a float in the off chance you happen upon a stupid/unlucky animal isn't hunting, it's a float that you then decide to kill an animal on. I don't go on a black bear hunt everyday I look out my window, but I get black bear tags every year in case there's one out my window one day. I don't go on a moose hunt everyday of moose season when I look out my window, but I get a moose tag every year in case there's one out my window one day.

Depending on the dictionary the basic definition of hunt is to pursue and kill (a wild animal) for sport or food. Floating down a river without the intention or purpose of pursuing game to kill means you are floating down a river. If you are floating down a river with the intention and purpose of killing game then you are on a float hunt. It's like the difference in taking a hike or hunting, except you're in a boat/raft

You have made the assumption that I am "floating down a river without the intention or purpose of pursuing game to kill means you are floating down a river." You are wrong, of course I have the intention of killing game if the situation is right, if I'm floating during a season. I just don't need to kill one to call it a good or successful hunt.

You are just now changing your words to include a "float hunt". Before you said a float was not a hunt.

 

[mark knapp]

Like you just said in the previous post "Killing is the point at which you pull the trigger. Hunting is everything you do before the killing. I like hunting very much but I do not need to kill something to hunt for it." You can kill something without hunting it. Going on a float isn't a hunt, going on a float hunt is a hunt, carrying a rifle on a float in the off chance you happen upon a stupid/unlucky animal isn't hunting, it's a float that you then decide to kill an animal on. I don't go on a black bear hunt everyday I look out my window, but I get black bear tags every year in case there's one out my window one day. I don't go on a moose hunt everyday of moose season when I look out my window, but I get a moose tag every year in case there's one out my window one day.

Depending on the dictionary the basic definition of hunt is to pursue and kill (a wild animal) for sport or food. Floating down a river without the intention or purpose of pursuing game to kill means you are floating down a river. If you are floating down a river with the intention and purpose of killing game then you are on a float hunt. It's like the difference in taking a hike or hunting, except you're in a boat/raft

If I'm hiking during a season, and I have a harvest ticket, with a rifle, I'm hunting.

 

[Brian M]

Here's the best way to tell if you are a good cook, make a moose burger and make a cow burger. If no one asks for seconds on the moose, you're not a good cook.

Fact.

That is among the best posts every written on this site. Couldn't agree more.

And thanks for the laugh!

 

[Brian M]

As to the original question, it all depends on context. I am firmly in the "the experience and journey matters far more than the result" camp, but there are times when a filled tag really is the definition of success. Mark, I hear what you're saying - what I truly treasure about hunting is everything else that goes into it and comes out of it. In the month since my wife died, I have spent a lot of time thinking back on the memories we shared. So many of our most treasured times were spent hunting, and many of those did not result in a notched tag. Our week spent in the far Eastern Brooks where we could see Canada from our tent is among the best weeks of my life, and we didn't see a single legal ram. I could share many similar stories.

But - here's the caveat. You yourself mentioned that you have four freezers running. It's easier to fully enjoy the experience with absolutely no remorse about an unfilled tag when the freezer is already full. Sure, you're right - none of us are going to starve without game meat in the freezer. But for many of us - and I would guess you feel likewise - wild game is a core part of our family's culture. Whether cost effective or not, wild game is deeply important to me and to my family. Just buying some beef or chicken because I was unable to harvest an animal seems like a non-issue on the surface, but...something vitally important would be missing.

And honestly, sometimes it can be cost effective. I can think of three hunts the first three years my wife was in Alaska where the meat really did make an economic difference (during one of those years she was my fiancee). All three of those hunts were completed for the cost of less than a tank of gas and a single bullet. And I'll admit, there was a tension leading into the hunt and during it - almost a stress - because a successful harvest was really important. We were pinching every penny we had, and having a freezer full of meat for less than $100 was a really big deal. So yeah, in those times, I most certainly did define a successful hunt by full game bags.

I only say this because it can be really easy to be dismissive of those who define success by whether they did or did not kill something. 95% of the time what I'm really after is solitude, adventure, and peace for my soul. But the meat matters. It matters culturally, for health, and sometimes even for economic reasons. And when the freezer is empty, that takes on a greater importance.

 

[Patsfan54]

I don't really intend to kill something whenever I put a weapon in my hands. The best way to ruin a perfectly good float trip is to kill a moose during it.

When I float, I sometimes plan it during moose season. If it's during moose season I carry a rifle in case a moose presents itself. I fish and came and if I see a moose or something else I have to decide if I want to shift from a nice float trip to taking care of a moose. Everything after a moose is killed, is toward making the best meat we can instead of having the best float trip we can. The two are not the same and they are almost exclusive. When we are floating, we sit around the fire, we have good meals and we fish a lot. When we are taking care of meat, the goal is to take care of meat, we hurry the trip, we keep it dry and we hang it every night. I'd actually rather just be floating than hunting hard core or taking care of meat.

I never feel like I have to kill something but I am almost always ready to kill something if we are calling it a hunt. We are always quiet, always have our eyes open and always have binoculars on. We seldom camp for a while and climb hills to spend lots of time glassing. We would do those things if we thought we needed to kill something. We'd get up before dark, we'd get home after dark, we'd sleep or float during the middle of the day and glass during the evenings and mornings if we are hard core hunting. We never do those things when we just want to enjoy the float trip.

You have made the assumption that I am "floating down a river without the intention or purpose of pursuing game to kill means you are floating down a river." You are wrong, of course I have the intention of killing game if the situation is right, if I'm floating during a season. I just don't need to kill one to call it a good or successful hunt.

You are just now changing your words to include a "float hunt". Before you said a float was not a hunt.

My assumptions are based upon what you wrote, so I apologize for reading what you wrote and assuming you meant what you wrote.

Hang in there, solstice is coming and cabin fever will soon be gone for another year.

 

[magpie]

Never had a problem with ground game burger when cooked right, with or without added fat. If you cook it right it's delicious and dripping with juices, if you don't know how to cook, well that's a different story. Could be you aren't as good as a cook as you think and need all the additional fat to hide that fact...

Here's the best way to tell if you are a good cook, make a moose burger and make a cow burger. If no one asks for seconds on the moose, you're not a good cook.

Fact.

That was pretty good but goes against science, logic etc How are you magically replicating fat content in the meat? How are you cooking it? Let’s hear the magic. Because there isn’t any way you’re cooking a moose burger to make it taste better than a beef burger. Only so many ways to cook a burger. And if you’re half the cook you say you are you would know how important the fat content is.

But I’m betting you’re that guy that adds beef to his moose. Why do so many do that? To make it taste like beef 😂😂😂

 

[Brian M]

That was pretty good but goes against science, logic etc How are you magically replicating fat content in the meat? How are you cooking it? Let’s hear the magic. Because there isn’t any way you’re cooking a moose burger to make it taste better than a beef burger. Only so many ways to cook a burger. And if you’re half the cook you say you are you would know how important the fat content is.

But I’m betting you’re that guy that adds beef to his moose. Why do so many do that? To make it taste like beef 😂😂😂

Kidney fat from moose or caribou is really good in ground burger. Solid fat from the rump? Not so much.

But personally speaking, we don't grind any fat into our game burger. We use an egg per pound of meat to bind it together. And yes, I actually do prefer it that way. Perhaps because I was raised on game meat almost exclusively. Heck, some people claim to enjoy the taste of seal oil. Perhaps my tastes are just as different as their's. But I absolutely prefer moose burgers (or sheep, caribou, goat, etc.) to beef - no beef or pork fat needed.

 

[4merguide]

For many, many years now all I do with ground moose is add a bit of olive oil to it to help hold it together. Works great, is healthy for you, and compliments the moose meat nicely.

 

[4merguide]

And honestly, sometimes it can be cost effective. I can think of three hunts the first three years my wife was in Alaska where the meat really did make an economic difference (during one of those years she was my fiancee). All three of those hunts were completed for the cost of less than a tank of gas and a single bullet.

For a number of years when my kids were small, I used to throw a few things in a pack, grab the rifle, and walk less than two miles from my house and kill moose. Sure helped out on the pocket book when times were lean.

 

[SmokeRoss]

For a number of years when my kids were small, I used to throw a few things in a pack, grab the rifle, and walk less than two miles from my house and kill moose. Sure helped out on the pocket book when times were lean.

For the past several years I have hosed a bull on opening day with my bow. One arrow and done. Meat on the pole.

 

[Patsfan54]

That was pretty good but goes against science, logic etc How are you magically replicating fat content in the meat? How are you cooking it? Let’s hear the magic. Because there isn’t any way you’re cooking a moose burger to make it taste better than a beef burger. Only so many ways to cook a burger. And if you’re half the cook you say you are you would know how important the fat content is.

But I’m betting you’re that guy that adds beef to his moose. Why do so many do that? To make it taste like beef 😂😂😂

I haven't added cow fat to any game meat for years, that stuff leaves a gross film on anything it touches. Pork fat is way better than cow fat anyways, I only add that for sausage, or if I have some bacon lying around and want a bacon burger.

The only "magic" involved is properly tending to your meat. Cooking involves temperature and time. If you start with a good piece of meat and treat it right you end up with a good end product.

It all starts by processing my own meat, by doing that I know where my meat has been and who has touched it so I don't need to worry about the various diseases that are found on commercial slaughtered or processed meat, and I don't need to over cook my meat to make it safe to eat. I freeze my meat in the largest primal cut that I can manage and then grind as needed. Grinding and freezing meat leads to oxidization and if you grind in fat and then freeze you end up with oxidized meat with rancid fat, since fat will go rancid even when frozen. When I grind I liberally coat the meat with either olive oil or avocado oil.

Good quality meat will make a burger and stick together without cow or pig fat, just form a tight round ball and slowly press it flat to form a patty then place it on a plate and put it in the fridge for 10-20 minutes. Then use your cooking skills and the appropriate time and temperature, you don't need to cook game as much as you do cow or pig that's what leads to people not wanting to eat your dried out burgers.

 

[bottom_dweller]

This is success. I was headed down the straight one frosty morn in my skiff about 300 yards off the beach. I was going to hunt a muskeg I had not hunted before. The water was like glass and I was doing about 25 knots. It was low tide and the beach showing was all gravel but with a very steep area at the tree line. The shoreline was going to make a gradual curving point and then a cove on the other side. A buck jumped out of the woods and started running as fast as they do, parallel to me. Without dropping the throttle I kept going and flew around the broad point and into the cove. I jumped out of the skiff with the rifle and ran up a gravel bar so as to allow me to see the point. No sooner after I loaded the rifle the buck came smokin’ around the corner. There was an opening by the creek in the direction he was going about 50 yards in front of him that would allow him quick access into the thick salaI. I am a sucker for moving game. I led him and fired. Down he went. But then to my surprise, he got back up and started running even faster. Again, I led him and squeezed. It was one of those shots that you know you hit the mark. Nothing happened. He just kept running. I only had loaded 2 rounds in the rifle. I could do nothing but watch. About 10 yards away from the opening, his life force left his body while he was on a ‘dead’ run. First shot went behind the front shoulder missing a rib on entry but hitting one on exit. Hit both lungs- fatal for sure. The second shot hit just in front of the shoulder destroying the heart.
There has to be some sort of real challenge for me in order to get that rush. I passed on a buck the day before that was bigger because I wasn’t challenged.

 

[mark knapp]

As to the original question, it all depends on context. I am firmly in the "the experience and journey matters far more than the result" camp, but there are times when a filled tag really is the definition of success. Mark, I hear what you're saying - what I truly treasure about hunting is everything else that goes into it and comes out of it. In the month since my wife died, I have spent a lot of time thinking back on the memories we shared. So many of our most treasured times were spent hunting, and many of those did not result in a notched tag. Our week spent in the far Eastern Brooks where we could see Canada from our tent is among the best weeks of my life, and we didn't see a single legal ram. I could share many similar stories.

But - here's the caveat. You yourself mentioned that you have four freezers running. It's easier to fully enjoy the experience with absolutely no remorse about an unfilled tag when the freezer is already full. Sure, you're right - none of us are going to starve without game meat in the freezer. But for many of us - and I would guess you feel likewise - wild game is a core part of our family's culture. Whether cost effective or not, wild game is deeply important to me and to my family. Just buying some beef or chicken because I was unable to harvest an animal seems like a non-issue on the surface, but...something vitally important would be missing.

And honestly, sometimes it can be cost effective. I can think of three hunts the first three years my wife was in Alaska where the meat really did make an economic difference (during one of those years she was my fiancee). All three of those hunts were completed for the cost of less than a tank of gas and a single bullet. And I'll admit, there was a tension leading into the hunt and during it - almost a stress - because a successful harvest was really important. We were pinching every penny we had, and having a freezer full of meat for less than $100 was a really big deal. So yeah, in those times, I most certainly did define a successful hunt by full game bags.

I only say this because it can be really easy to be dismissive of those who define success by whether they did or did not kill something. 95% of the time what I'm really after is solitude, adventure, and peace for my soul. But the meat matters. It matters culturally, for health, and sometimes even for economic reasons. And when the freezer is empty, that takes on a greater importance.

I agree with every thing you said. You said it better than I could, even though I said the same thing. Really, I only said, I don't NEED fill a tag to feel like it was a successful hunt. Maybe it's the word "Successful" that makes it hard for other people to swallow. It's possible that more people would agree if I said, "I don't need to fill a tag to have a good hunt."

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[mark knapp]

This is success. I was headed down the straight one frosty morn in my skiff about 300 yards off the beach. I was going to hunt a muskeg I had not hunted before. The water was like glass and I was doing about 25 knots. It was low tide and the beach showing was all gravel but with a very steep area at the tree line. The shoreline was going to make a gradual curving point and then a cove on the other side. A buck jumped out of the woods and started running as fast as they do, parallel to me. Without dropping the throttle I kept going and flew around the broad point and into the cove. I jumped out of the skiff with the rifle and ran up a gravel bar so as to allow me to see the point. No sooner after I loaded the rifle the buck came smokin’ around the corner. There was an opening by the creek in the direction he was going about 50 yards in front of him that would allow him quick access into the thick salaI. I am a sucker for moving game. I led him and fired. Down he went. But then to my surprise, he got back up and started running even faster. Again, I led him and squeezed. It was one of those shots that you know you hit the mark. Nothing happened. He just kept running. I only had loaded 2 rounds in the rifle. I could do nothing but watch. About 10 yards away from the opening, his life force left his body while he was on a ‘dead’ run. First shot went behind the front shoulder missing a rib on entry but hitting one on exit. Hit both lungs- fatal for sure. The second shot hit just in front of the shoulder destroying the heart.
There has to be some sort of real challenge for me in order to get that rush. I passed on a buck the day before that was bigger because I wasn’t challenged.

I think you are right. I think both of the outings were successful hunts, they were both successful because you remembered them both. They both mean something to you.

Thanks for telling us.

 

[mark knapp]

For the past several years I have hosed a bull on opening day with my bow. One arrow and done. Meat on the pole.

Brian M said:
"And honestly, sometimes it can be cost effective. I can think of three hunts the first three years my wife was in Alaska where the meat really did make an economic difference (during one of those years she was my fiancee). All three of those hunts were completed for the cost of less than a tank of gas and a single bullet."

I know, some hunts are cost effective, as I said, the ones from home generally are and the extended hunts generally aren't.

Thanks for the input.