Well here I go again...another 358 Vinchester

[elmerkeithclone]

Can you take a post 64 - 70 and replace the trigger with a new model easily?

I soy nope Smokey! The US Repeating Arms Winchester triggers are different than the new FN Winchester triggers. Your best bet is to bite the bullet and buy a Timney trigger for that earlier Winchester.

My recently purchased push feed 243 was made in 1976 and has the old style trigger and I got it adjusted perfectly for what i want it for. Then I epoxied the locking nut in place. There are some pretty good you tube videos on those old triggers. They can be aggravating as heck. I had mine perfect first try.....it even went off with the safety on.....back to the drawing board and in the end it is perfect and the safety works like it should.

 

[akula682]

My recently purchased push feed 243 was made in 1976 and has the old style trigger and I got it adjusted perfectly for what i want it for. Then I epoxied the locking nut in place. There are some pretty good you tube videos on those old triggers. They can be aggravating as heck. I had mine perfect first try.....it even went off with the safety on.....back to the drawing board and in the end it is perfect and the safety works like it should.

Is that a Win 670?

 

[Alaska_Lanche]

Ohhhhh, but I was RIGHT. And on a Thursday, too.

See EKC's post #10. It twern't no RA, but a Hawkeye.

That's a good choice, I'm sure. I dunno if the RA is reliable enough for a Bear Protection gun.

When I first came to the Greatland, there was a story in the news of a hunter killed by a Bar. Somewhere in the melee, his gun barrel got BENT.

You gotta have a TUFF gun, with a tuff barrel, or the bar can bend it, and you'll miss him. AND, the rifle in your Will, will be plumb worthless.

SOTN

Haha indeed the Hawkeye has an even fatter barrel than the RAR. Both have more meat than a Kimber Montana and JES isn't concerned about barrel being too thin unless it's less than a .2" between ID and O (basically .1" between bore and outside of the barrel.). So either the hawkeye or the RAR would be fine to bore out to .358. Maybe you don't feel comfortable with it but I trust a guy that does this for a living then guys that just don't feel comfortable with a thinner barrel.

 

[Alaska_Lanche]

Just went to measure some barrel ODs to give ya some warm fuzzies

Kimber Montana .3o8 is .605" at 16"

RAR 300 black out is .745" at 16"

RAR 223 is .665" at 16"

RAR 17hmr is .655 at 18"

RAR 308 is .605" at 22"

So not exactly going to be .1" of meat left on the barrel with the RAR. I would call JES reboring first prior to writing them off if you are looking to do so.

 

[Smokey]

Ruger did make 2 runs of 358W Hawkeyes this year...
50 of one and 150 of another series... One you can buy ( if you can find ) under $900 and 1200 respectively..
.

 

[BrownBear]

A quick heads up for 358 lovers:

Keep your eyes open in the dark dusty corners of old sporting goods stores for boxes of 250 grain silver tips- loaded ammo or bullets for reloading.

At the vels of the 358, they're incredible performers (as well as the 200 grain models). Whatever gripe you've heard about silver tips, disregard the noise when it comes to the 358. Super weight retention, great expansion, while also giving penetration to compete with any other bullet.

Nice thing about those dark and dusty spots at the back of shelves in old stores, prices probably haven't been updated. I just picked up some ammo today- 6 boxes of the 250's and 4 of the 200's while traveling through a place where you wouldn't expect anyone to shoot a 358. These are the old yellow box Winchesters and wore the original price tag. I laid down $19.95 a box for the 200's and $16.95 for the 250's.

Yeah, I'm being vague about where I found them. I plan to stop in a few more stores tomorrow, and I don't want anyone to get a jump on me!

 

[elmerkeithclone]

Just went to measure some barrel ODs to give ya some warm fuzzies

Kimber Montana .3o8 is .605" at 16"

RAR 300 black out is .745" at 16"

RAR 223 is .665" at 16"

RAR 17hmr is .655 at 18"

RAR 308 is .605" at 22"

So not exactly going to be .1" of meat left on the barrel with the RAR. I would call JES reboring first prior to writing them off if you are looking to do so.

I have contemplated turning so many guns into 358s that maybe I'm confused. I had a Ruger 77 Ultralight in 7mm-08 that wouldn't shoot for sour grapes and I really wanted to donate it to a 358 rebore... maybe that was the one that was too skinny. In any event I am not writing JES off on anything nor will i ever saying anything negative about him or his work. He has rebored 358's, 338-06's, 375 Winchesters and a 375WSM and they were all excellent.The whole concept of thin barreled medium-big bored rifles just is not to my liking...nothing more. Neither is a 16 inch barrel on a bolt action rifle. So with that in mind the 308 RAR with the .605 barrel makes for 1/8 inch thick barrel walls. Still to skinny for EKC's liking. That doesn't mean it's not doable, just means that i won't do it. Part of that comes from 40 years of trying to solve harmonic issues on buggy whip barrels. Paranoid I guess!

 

[Smitty of the North]

Thanks guys:

For clearin that UuP.

Now, IF,,, a 358 Win. is superior to Many other cartridges, say 7mm Mauser/175 grain, can we discuss WHY that could be So?

The only thing that comes to mind, other than perception, is that CALIBER allows more velocity with the same bullet WEIGHT, than, say, the 308 Win.

This, of course, is at the expense of SD and BC.

Compare 358 Win. 200 gr. at 2500 fps, with 200 gr. 30-06 at 2400 plus fps. Hmm, mmm.

I've always liked the 358 Norma, but other 35 cal. cartridges are less appealing. The 358 Win is a nice addition to the 308 Case Family, but I don't know if it is much superior to the 308, I get more excited about the 7mm-08. (You CAN use heavy for caliber bullets in a7mm-08.)

If the 358 isn't terribly superior, there may be reasons why it is PREFERABLE.

Let's get down to the Nitty Gritty.

Smitty of the North

 

[elmerkeithclone]

Is that a Win 670?

Nope it's one of the model 70's without a floor plate. Winchester's version of the 700 ADL. It puts 5-58 grain Vmaxes into an inch @ 100. Should work good on coyotes. I'm liking it so far!

 

[akula682]

Nope it's one of the model 70's without a floor plate. Winchester's version of the 700 ADL. It puts 5-58 grain Vmaxes into an inch @ 100. Should work good on coyotes. I'm liking it so far!

i thought all of the blind box "70's" were 670's.

this is what mine looked like before i had it rebarreled to a 338 Fed

 

[Smitty of the North]

i thought all of the blind box "70's" were 670's.

this is what mine looked like before i had it rebarreled to a 338 Fed

I think the 670 was just a basic and cheaper, or economy, version.

SOTN

 

[Smitty of the North]

Here is an article that seems to cover all aspects of the 358 Win.

(EKC, it is from Chuck Hawks site, but NOT written by him.)

http://www.chuckhawks.com/358Win_mystery.htm

It takes awhile to wade through it, all, but IMO, the 358 Win. comes out a winner for an all around rifle. It's not just magic, or wishful thinking.

SOTN

 

[elmerkeithclone]

i thought all of the blind box "70's" were 670's.

this is what mine looked like before i had it rebarreled to a 338 Fed

This is mine. It say model 70 on it. Some of the 670's had walnut finished hard maple stocks if i remember right. Mine is Walnut. It also has a sporter varmint weight barrel. I almost sent this one to JES for the 358 rebore but after shooting it I decided to leave it alone and send JES the brand new Hawkeye. With the same ammo 58 grain V-max at 3800fps this Winchester shot 5 straight 3 shot groups under an inch. The Hawkeye was an inch and a quarter to inch and a half gun.

I recently bought an already built 10x10 shed that was like new. I converted it to my reloading room. It has a 42 inch TV on one wall a lazy boy in the corner and the rest is reloading shtuff. One more night sitting on that stool and I will have a 5 gallon bucket full of 358 sized/with gas checks 158 grain hard cast bullets. I am anxious to see how they shoot in the 358 when I get it back. These bullets are 70% wheel weight and 30 % linotype so they should do well up to 2000 ftps and maybe more....that's yet to be determined!

 

[elmerkeithclone]

www.gunbroker.com/item/598714929 I got busy for a few minutes and when I sat back down at the puter it had timed out. Mine does have a long action which doesn't bother me and would have been advantages in turning it into a long throated 358 Winchester. One could seat the bullets long without worrying about magazine length. It does have a block in the magazine but is still longer than standard 243.

 

[akula682]

www.gunbroker.com/item/598714929 I got busy for a few minutes and when I sat back down at the puter it had timed out. Mine does have a long action which doesn't bother me and would have been advantages in turning it into a long throated 358 Winchester. One could seat the bullets long without worrying about magazine length. It does have a block in the magazine but is still longer than standard 243.

My 670 is a long action too, i almost converted it to a 280 Rem, but i decided to stick with the 338 Fed, and i went with a new M70 Stainless Steel extreme weather to convert to 280 Rem.

 

[elmerkeithclone]

Just went to measure some barrel ODs to give ya some warm fuzzies

Kimber Montana .3o8 is .605" at 16"

RAR 300 black out is .745" at 16"

RAR 223 is .665" at 16"

RAR 17hmr is .655 at 18"

RAR 308 is .605" at 22"

So not exactly going to be .1" of meat left on the barrel with the RAR. I would call JES reboring first prior to writing them off if you are looking to do so.

I have thought and thought on this and was certain it was a Ruger American with the skinny barrel. I called my buddy Ray @ Midwest Firearms and asked if he had the skinny barrel 7mm-08 that I played with for a while and he did, so today on my lunch hour I ran over to pay him and it a visit. I brought it home with me more further evaluation. Before I left I measured the barrel diameter with Rays caliper. The barrel at the muzzle measures a scant .565 inches. It is the Predator model with the green digital came stock. My intent was to rebore it at it's current 22 inch length. I measured it with my new Pro grade digital caliper when I got home and I got .568.............for all practical terms that's 1/10th of an inch thick barrel walls after a 358 rebore! Pretty much what I stated in my original post. Obviously taking measurements a half a foot short of the end of the barrel is going to increase the diameter. Let me ask you this because I'm curious, if your Kimber Montana measured .565 at the 16 inch muzzle would ya still rebore it to 358 Winchester? I'm not saying your wrong if you do because we all have the right to do our own thing so there is no right or wrong when your deciding for yourself. My preference for the 358 Winchester is obviously to get the most out of it and i'm not even settled in my own mind whether thats 20 or 22 inches. I'd be interested in what numbers you are getting with that 16 inch barrel..if you don't mind sharing!

 

[323]

I like raisins and brown sugar in my oatmeal..

 

[Amigo Will]

Any one thought of the 357max in a bolt gun. My brides H&R shoots light out with 180 and 200gr bullets

 

[elmerkeithclone]

Any one thought of the 357max in a bolt gun. My brides H&R shoots light out with 180 and 200gr bullets

A 357 Max reamer run through a CVA Scout pistol would be cool too.

 

[BrownBear]

Any one thought of the 357max in a bolt gun.

Coupla thoughts.

Numero uno, make sure the mag is set up to accommodate rimmed cases.

Numero dos, I'd sure look into the limits of cartridge OAL in both the mag and throat. Only reason I bring that up, I had a heck of a good time using longer bullets in a 14" Contender, which had a long throat. You just would not believe how accurately that gun would shoot 200 grain bullets cast from my RCBS mold. The bullet has the cannelure set back for rifles rather than pushed out forward like standard revolver bullets. No pics since I don't have the gun any more (darnit!), but the loaded round doesn't look anything like a revolver round, the bullet sits out so far. It shot 200 grain jacketed rifle bullets really well too, most notably the Hornady Spire. Case capacity was too limited to do much with 250's but it was sure accurate. Here is that 200 grain RCBS bullet for reference.

Kinda funny looking, but so danged accurate and unique, to my eyes it was all the better for it. BTW- Those 200 grain RCBS cast were sooooo accurate I was dinking ragged hole groups at 100 yards from that Contender mounted with only a 4x scope. Won more than one friendly side bets with that gun. Walked away with a crisp $100 bill one day when a friend unfamiliar with the gun put 5 soda cans out at 100 yards, laying on their sides with the end facing me. Center-shot the end of each of them and pocketed the bill! :topjob: