Tight Primer Pockets!

[Smokey]

OK, I am trying to load some new Rem 308 brass and having one heck of a time getting the CCI 200 primers in - managed to SLAM 5 in and said that's enuff - the primers fit fine in fired cases but this new bag I just opened of brass is giving me fits!
Anybody had a bad batch of brass that tolerances were perhaps too tight on??? Geez...
Tried CCI Bench Rest primers with same results....
Are Rem 9 1/2's perhaps a bit smaller?????

 

[tvfinak]

Bad brass"

Bad brass"

I suspect you have a bad of brass - it happens.

Are the edges of the primer pockets rounded like your other brass? If you had some gage plugs you could check them but I've try checking them with a good pair of dial calipers and compare them against other cases that prime O.K. Work with getting the tips of the inside calibers in the primer pocketa nd you should be able to make a valid comparison between known good and the new brass.

You can also check some primer diameters - large ones should be around .210 as I recall.

OK, I am trying to load some new Rem 308 brass and having one heck of a time getting the CCI 200 primers in - managed to SLAM 5 in and said that's enuff - the primers fit fine in fired cases but this new bag I just opened of brass is giving me fits!
Anybody had a bad batch of brass that tolerances were perhaps too tight on??? Geez...
Tried CCI Bench Rest primers with same results....
Are Rem 9 1/2's perhaps a bit smaller?????

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Did you try tapping them in with a hammer?

 

[Smitty of the North]

I'm guessing that you DIDN'T lube the primers.

Seriously, I hardly use anything else BUT Rem. brass and CCI primers.

tvfinak is probably right again, and you got a bag of bad brass. (We can get even with him later.)

This, assuming you're using a good Primer Seater.

May you continue to live an "Interesting Life".

Smitty of the North

 

[MToutdoorsman]

Did you uniform the primer pockets? Just a thought/suggestion. Might not make any difference, but it may also be better than primer seating difficulty you're currently having.

 

[kodiakrain]

Tried CCI Bench Rest primers with same results....
Are Rem 9 1/2's perhaps a bit smaller?????

I think I can answer this part of the question anyway, the Rem 9 1/2's are not any smaller than CCI 200's in the batches I have anyway....
I have some tight fitting Rem 9 1/2's going into Nosler Brass and CCI 200's seat fine and easy into the same pockets

I'm having a somewhat similar problem (tho not quite as bad), with fairly new Nosler Brass and Rem 9 1/2's

I'm not having that much trouble getting them in, it's a matter of how far in,...
I have Uniformed the pockets,
but it seems these Rem Primers are just bigger, taller, tighter, or something

If I seat them (using the RCBS hand seater) just to the point I feel them seat, or touch bottom, they are too high. Very noticeable, in a set of calipers measuring OAL or something, the primer is sitting high,....

So, I have been giving them a bit of a crush after hitting bottom, seem to be working fine but I took some pics, to ask you guys, is this ok?

You can see the marks I am getting on the primer from the Seater Tool Pin actually.
I remember 1 Cor 15 mentioning to me that marks on the primer like these was too much.
but I have to seat it that hard to get them far enough in to not sit high.

Doesn't seem right, and maybe I have just a few bad ones? I know the brass is fine for pocket depth, as trying CCI 200's they go in fine, easy, deep enough with no marks after just hitting bottom....

Unfortunately, I picked up about 3000 of these Rem's by mistake, now hoping they're not subpar primers,

What do you guys think of this hard seating, it takes just a little extra squeeze, they seem to be lighting off fine, Excellent Accuracy so far, just wondering

 

[Smitty of the North]

That's interesting too.

That's interesting too.

It seems odd to me that you have "high primers" when you have Uniformed the PPs.

This is the beeg reason I Uniform PPs. To make sure they are deep enough. After seating a primer, I feel them with my finger, to make ssure they're below the case head. (Even though that's never happened.)

Again, I always use CCI, and I seat primers HARD.

Smitty of the North

 

[kodiakrain]

After seating a primer, I feel them with my finger, to make ssure they're below the case head. (Even though that's never happened.)

Again, I always use CCI, and I seat primers HARD.

Smitty of the North

yeah, I do the same with my finger, feel for depth, never found one sitting high before these Rem's

I'm about 99.9% sure it is not the brass, but this batch (or all?) of Rem 9 1/2's that seem to need more crush

So by "seat hard" do you get marks like these from the seating pin, (if you use a handtool anyway), do these look fine?

They do work fine, just wondering as this subject came up so close to home

 

[Smitty of the North]

yeah, I do the same with my finger, feel for depth, never found one sitting high before these Rem's

I'm about 99.9% sure it is not the brass, but this batch (or all?) of Rem 9 1/2's that seem to need more crush

So by "seat hard" do you get marks like these from the seating pin, (if you use a handtool anyway), do these look fine?

They do work fine, just wondering as this subject came up so close to home

I always seat primers with my press. Usually, it's the primer arm, or whatever means the press uses, like maybe a Ram Prime thingy.

I've never noticed that I got marks like that, but it's possible. And, I might ignore them if I did.

I mixed up your problems. I was thinking you were having trouble seating CCI primers too. (It was Smokey who said, "Tried CCI Bench Rest primers with same results....") Not you.

In your case, it makes sense to blame the 9 1/2s.

Smitty of the North

 

[Smokey]

Did you uniform the primer pockets? Just a thought/suggestion. Might not make any difference, but it may also be better than primer seating difficulty you're currently having.

Uh, OK I'll bite, what does it mean to "uniform" the primer pockets?

Thanks for the hammer suggestion montana - I think I'll ask the wife to try it first!
I am using an RCBS press and had to really slam the ram up mayber 4 or 5 times to get the primer to seat deep enuff that I could not feel it with my fingure protrude above the base. I have had some in the past a bit hard to seat but these seem rediculous...

 

[kodiakrain]

Someone can probably describe it better than I, but I'll shoot for it,

A Primer Pocket Uniformer, basically shaves the primer pocket to a uniform depth, cleans out the corners really well also
Is of a standard size that fits tightly inside the pocket, and if your pockets were small, it would be hard to get in.
a pic may describe it better, but if you get one, you'll be impressed by the idea for sure,
and it would probably solve your questions about your brass being too small,

Here's the one I use,
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34720/Product/Sinclair_Primer_Pocket_Uniformers

 

[L. G.]

Many a problem with CCI for me.

I'm a Federal man now and have never run into the "hard seating" problem with them - ever.

 

[pinehavensredrocket]

hi smokey; for an old loader like you if this is a first you are lucky! when i can get them my favorite primer is the cci 200 but on occasion i have used federal, remington, and winchester ( in that order ). some of them do seem tight, but then i use a hand seater and my thumbs do get tired!

tight primer pockets are certainly more desireable than loose......but if you really can't prime the case than perhaps your brass is faulty. i would not "ream" the pockets to make them uniform as you will lose material, but suggest you borrow a swage and press them instead. dillon make the best one ( dandy for military brass ), but rcbs makes a cheap model similar to a die. good luck with your project!

 

[MToutdoorsman]

hi smokey; for an old loader like you if this is a first you are lucky! when i can get them my favorite primer is the cci 200 but on occasion i have used federal, remington, and winchester ( in that order ). some of them do seem tight, but then i use a hand seater and my thumbs do get tired!

tight primer pockets are certainly more desireable than loose......but if you really can't prime the case than perhaps your brass is faulty. i would not "ream" the pockets to make them uniform as you will lose material, but suggest you borrow a swage and press them instead. dillon make the best one ( dandy for military brass ), but rcbs makes a cheap model similar to a die. good luck with your project!

Not trying to start anything, but I am curious why you advise against uniforming primer pockets. In the benchrest community, anything that can be done to increase accuracy and consistency is done, to include uniforming primer pockets. Seems to me that if it was detrimental in any way, those guys wouldn't be doing it. If the primer pockets are extremely tight, using a primer pocket uniformer will probably alleviate the issue the OP was having.

 

[pinehavensredrocket]

MT outdoorsman; this is a good question: it is a matter of proceedure to "uniform" the primer pocket. some folks use a reamer ( it works just fine, but removes material) and some folks use a primer pocket swage. the swage uses pressure to "uniform" the primer pocket and doesn't remove metal from this critical area.

it may depend on opinion as to which proceedure is the best one.......i prefer not to cut away the primer pocket. as in everything there is a cost vs benefit and you have to judge what is right for you.

 

[back country]

I recently ran into the very same trouble with Winchester new brass and BR2 primers - I was just "fighting it out" with them until I broke the handle off my old Lee hand primer seater (I then realized they were seating WAY too difficult) - I didn't ever figure out what the heck was goin' on but I had at least 250 cases with the same difficulty and I actually was afraid I was gonna set a primer off they were so tight ! I got some Nosler Custom brass and no troubles BUT ... also no troubles with 210M primers so I'm STILL in the dark on that one but uniforming the primer pockets didn't do anything for the problem good OR bad

 

[Smokey]

MT outdoorsman; this is a good question: it is a matter of proceedure to "uniform" the primer pocket. some folks use a reamer ( it works just fine, but removes material) and some folks use a primer pocket swage. the swage uses pressure to "uniform" the primer pocket and doesn't remove metal from this critical area.

it may depend on opinion as to which proceedure is the best one.......i prefer not to cut away the primer pocket. as in everything there is a cost vs benefit and you have to judge what is right for you.

Hmmm, good input fella's - I do have some reamers that I use and thanks pinehaven for the pic as it helps me understand it better - when I get a chance I will mic a few and see if I can detect any diff - maybe I should get them HOT in an oven so they expand then insert a primer - that should do it??? LOL

 

[MontanaRifleman]

.... maybe I should get them HOT in an oven so they expand then insert a primer - that should do it??? LOL

Yup,, and then get your hammer and tap'm in

On a more serious note, I would avoid reaming and removing material from the pocket walls. If you can work them in, the pockets will probably be fine after the first firing.

 

[Smitty of the North]

Well, there's PP Swagers, and PP Reamers, and PP Uniformers, and they ain't the same.

The first two, one or the other, are for removing the burrs, you get from the crimped in primers on used Military Brass.

A PP Uniformer is like Kodiakrain described. "basically shaves the primer pocket to a uniform depth, cleans out the corners"

It has a different function. (Making the PPs of Uniform Depth, and squareing the bottom of the Pocket.)

Folks do this Uniforming for better ignition, for better accuracy. I'm sure it helps, but the main reason "I" do it is because it virtually, precludes my getting High Primers. You only hafta do it once, and subsequently the Uniformer can be used to Clean the PPs. And, it does a fine job of that.

The POINT is, the PP Uniformer doesn't remove material from the sides, but only the bottom. (Of the PPs.)

Smitty of the North

 

[ADfields]

What Smitty said, they are different.

I am another swedge user (usually for crimps but not always) then follow that with a uniformer. I never like to ream pockets, it's way too easy to go too far and your primers fall out on firing jamming your gun all up on you. A swedge can't remove too much, it just forces things over and can't make a bigger hole than it is.

Take your pick of ether of these two and life will be better.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=447022

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=235832