The Future of our 2A Forum?

[Michael Strahan]

Okay, we've been running this 2A forum for a while, and its time to take stock of what it's done for us. I have to say I'm disappointed with the high number of "conspiracy theory" posts, "the sky is falling" posts, and other bits of tinfoil hat stuff. It's been way more than I expected. It's pretty disappointing, actually. I'm getting a lot of reported posts from this one, even though it's heavily moderated. When I come in here I feel my blood pressure going up. It needs so much cleanup. I mean, does it really matter that the troopers may or may not have purchased bazookas, rocket launchers, tanks, F-15 fighter jets, drones, a fleet of black helicopters and the keys to a secret hangar in Area 51? Really? And who in the general public is going to take us seriously when we post things like that (and let them remain posted here)?

On the other hand we've had some good dialogue, and there need to be some discussion about this topic.

So in the world where I live, where I work a 40-hour work week, spend most of my remaining time trying to balance building this business, being a husband, and remaining involved in overseas relief efforts, do I just cut my losses and nuke the 2A forum, or do I moderate it more heavily, or what? Those of you who don't like the 2A forum can certainly choose not to view it. But in some ways it still remains a stain on our site. It reflects on the whole business, in a way.

So... how about a simple poll? Let's let the members weigh in on the question. We're not obligated to follow majority rule here, but maybe someone can make a case one way or the other for keeping it, locking it behind a pay wall, or nuking it.

Mike

 

[Michael Strahan]

And for those who don't know, a "pay wall" is a member-only area that requires a membership fee.

Mike

 

[Tearbear]

It may take awhile to get it cleaned up alright....

 

[Brian M]

I've got some thoughts on this that will take some time to put into words - I'll try to set aside some time to write them down in the near future. The short version is that I'm dismayed by the personal conflict that some of these discussions have generated. The reason that we nuked the politics and religion forum a couple years ago is because the discord spilled onto other areas of this site. Members that would have otherwise shared productive conversations about the outdoors instead became hostile towards each other in discussions that have nothing to do with their political views simply because of the bad blood formed in other threads. The same thing is happening this time around. Members have questioned the credibility, honesty, and integrity of others simply because of disagreement on matters of firearms policy. It leaves me shaking my head. As one who values this community of outdoorsmen, I think the cost that we're bearing is not worth the benefit of these discussions.

Please understand that I think these are very important discussions to have. Matters of governance, theology, philosophy and more are central to our existence as humans and I spend a great deal of time and effort reading, contemplating, and talking with others about such matters. This is just not the place to do so in my experience. It comes down to a question of focus. We cannot be all things to all people. Our primary function is to provide information on the Alaskan outdoors and foster a community of Alaskan outdoors enthusiasts. While 2nd Amendment rights are incredibly important, others who are much smarter than myself have vociferously argued that the right to keep and bear arms is not about hunting - it is about providing for a means of self defense and the resistance of tyranny. It's not about the outdoors. As such, it falls outside of our focus and only serves to distract us from focusing on what we do best.

I'll try to add some more thoughts later, but that's the basics of how I feel about this forum and how it has affected our community.

 

[Marcus]

My vote . .

My vote . .

I voted to moderate it heavily and lock it behind a pay-wall.


That said, I hold little hope of a sane, polite, and rational venue for intelligent discussion of issues attendant to the Second Amendment or contentious issues in general, because I see little to no evidence that moderator-effort here understands the difference between comments on an idea and comments on people.


Virtually every time an idea is criticized, some take such criticism personally and respond in kind—EVEN MODERATORS!


I have been personally accused, by moderators, of being a "rabble rouser," "sidestepping a real stance," "leaning on quotes," and more.

 

[yukon254]

I've got some thoughts on this that will take some time to put into words - I'll try to set aside some time to write them down in the near future. The short version is that I'm dismayed by the personal conflict that some of these discussions have generated. The reason that we nuked the politics and religion forum a couple years ago is because the discord spilled onto other areas of this site. Members that would have otherwise shared productive conversations about the outdoors instead became hostile towards each other in discussions that have nothing to do with their political views simply because of the bad blood formed in other threads. The same thing is happening this time around. Members have questioned the credibility, honesty, and integrity of others simply because of disagreement on matters of firearms policy. It leaves me shaking my head. As one who values this community of outdoorsmen, I think the cost that we're bearing is not worth the benefit of these discussions.

Please understand that I think these are very important discussions to have. Matters of governance, theology, philosophy and more are central to our existence as humans and I spend a great deal of time and effort reading, contemplating, and talking with others about such matters. This is just not the place to do so in my experience. It comes down to a question of focus. We cannot be all things to all people. Our primary function is to provide information on the Alaskan outdoors and foster a community of Alaskan outdoors enthusiasts. While 2nd Amendment rights are incredibly important, others who are much smarter than myself have vociferously argued that the right to keep and bear arms is not about hunting - it is about providing for a means of self defense and the resistance of tyranny. It's not about the outdoors. As such, it falls outside of our focus and only serves to distract us from focusing on what we do best.

I'll try to add some more thoughts later, but that's the basics of how I feel about this forum and how it has affected our community.

I agree. Hot button issues like the 2A are bound to get peoples blood boiling. I am one of those who does believe that our current administration really is trying to disarm the populace, but this forum will do little to stop it.

I would also like to add that it has been my experience that for some reason a high number of AO members will treat other members with a total lack of respect no matter what the topic. I very rarely visit the site for that reason. Trapperman.com allows no politics period and the moderators do not allow disrespectful posts to stand.....might be food for thought.

 

[Marcus]

. . The reason that we nuked the politics and religion forum a couple years ago is because the discord spilled onto other areas of this site. Members that would have otherwise shared productive conversations about the outdoors instead became hostile towards each other in discussions that have nothing to do with their political views simply because of the bad blood formed in other threads. The same thing is happening this time around. Members have questioned the credibility, honesty, and integrity of others simply because of disagreement on matters of firearms policy. . .

Please understand that I think these are very important discussions to have. Matters of governance, theology, philosophy and more are central to our existence as humans and I spend a great deal of time and effort reading, contemplating, and talking with others about such matters. This is just not the place to do so in my experience. It comes down to a question of focus. We cannot be all things to all people. Our primary function is to provide information on the Alaskan outdoors and foster a community of Alaskan outdoors enthusiasts. While 2nd Amendment rights are incredibly important, others who are much smarter than myself have vociferously argued that the right to keep and bear arms is not about hunting - it is about providing for a means of self defense and the resistance of tyranny. It's not about the outdoors. As such, it falls outside of our focus and only serves to distract us from focusing on what we do best. . .

I couldn't disagree more. The reason sensitive discussions have bred ill will is because personal comments have been allowed to stand and fester rather than being immediately excised or edited by moderator-effort.


Unless these fora wish to become nothing more than a venue for discussion of bullet weight and hook size, politics, religion, and philosophy are inescapable aspects of everything we do. Retreat behind an excuse of "we can't be all things to all people" is a cop-out, a refusal to responsibly govern and moderate the conversation into productive discussion or ideas not people.

 

[TWB]

Moderate and lock ti behind a pay wall?

Why charge a fee for something when members can do the same for free elsewhere without first having to take a poll to allow it in the first place.

 

[TWB]

I couldn't disagree more. The reason sensitive discussions have bred ill will is because personal comments have been allowed to stand and fester rather than being immediately excised or edited by moderator-effort.

+1 Marcus, the voice of reason.

 

[Marcus]

Other fora, with which I'm familiar, will not allow a post until it has been moderated for content.

 

[Music Man]

Originally Posted by Marcus
I have been personally accused, by moderators, of being a "rabble rouser," "sidestepping a real stance," "leaning on quotes," and more.

You make my point for me by making it personal!

Other fora, with which I'm familiar, will not allow a post until it has been moderated for content.

Mike and Brian: here is your reason to NUKE IT.

 

[Tearbear]

The Moderators shouldn't have to babysit threads like that, if there was just a little more respect for others opinions, things would go more smoothly and it would be less of a stress.

 

[Brian M]

Other fora, with which I'm familiar, will not allow a post until it has been moderated for content.

While such an approach may work for forums with membership numbers in the hundreds, we average over 1,000 posts a day from many thousands of members. We simply do not have the time or manpower to moderate all posts for content, but instead rely on members to adhere to our rules while reporting those who do not. I read a lot of what is posted here, but far from all of it.

Your criticism of the site's moderation has been shared many times over and is noted. I take your suggestions seriously, though I do not agree with all of them. That said, the reality is that this is a very part-time endeavor for all of us - Mike included. My primary responsibilities are caring for my wife, raising two young sons, and teaching 145 teenagers. I take my role here seriously, but there are only so many hours a day that I can devote to the moderation of this site. Simply put, it is not nor will it ever be perfect. In addition, requiring moderation of all posts prior to them being public would harm the site as it would significantly cut down on the development of conversations in real time and it would overburden our already taxed moderation team. Call it a cop-out if you want, but you couldn't be more wrong. It is an assignment of priorities, and I will not apologize for making my children, wife, and job as a teacher my priorities above moderating discussions on politics, religion, and the like.

 

[Bear]

Brian I for one appreciate what you do round here.... and 145 teenagers...you must have supernatural powers I can barely take the one pre teen girl at my house...lol

Although I do not participate in the 2a much I have learned quite a bit from both sides so I do enjoy the read from time to time.. I do not like the personal crap and just wish folks would post as if they were face to face as I am sure a lot of what gets said(well posted ) would never happen if the other person was right in front of you...just sayin..

 

[dkwarthog]

Nuke it. I dont think its reasonable for volunteer moderators to police it the way some of you would like.

Nothing to be gained, IMO and much to be lost in the way of unity among the vast majority of us who are Alaskan outdoorsmen and women.

 

[ADfields]

I like your wall idea but definitely not a pay wall. If you think you have problems now charge a fee then try to keep paying customers from saying everything that’s on their mind after they gave you money.
　

I’ve said before it should be a limited access area where repeat offenders can be bounced out. There is a huge amount of good info here and much interesting stuff, even some of the conspiracy threads draw valuable input even though the starting post is useless banter. I say loosen the screws some on content inside but tighten up on those who can’t handle the topic . . . This 2A forum is like guns themselves, both fine tools for most but some are simply not responsible enough and should be excluded so they don’t harm others.

 

[Marcus]

1) While such an approach may work for forums with membership numbers in the hundreds, we average over 1,000 posts a day from many thousands of members. We simply do not have the time or manpower to moderate all posts for content, but instead rely on members to adhere to our rules while reporting those who do not. I read a lot of what is posted here, but far from all of it.

2) Your criticism of the site's moderation has been shared many times over and is noted. I take your suggestions seriously, though I do not agree with all of them. That said, the reality is that this is a very part-time endeavor for all of us - Mike included. 3) My primary responsibilities are caring for my wife, raising two young sons, and teaching 145 teenagers. I take my role here seriously, but there are only so many hours a day that I can devote to the moderation of this site. 4) Simply put, it is not nor will it ever be perfect. In addition, requiring moderation of all posts prior to them being public would harm the site as it would significantly cut down on the development of conversations in real time and it would overburden our already taxed moderation team. 5) Call it a cop-out if you want, but you couldn't be more wrong. It is an assignment of priorities, and I will not apologize for making my children, wife, and job as a teacher my priorities above moderating discussions on politics, religion, and the like.

1) I have not suggested intense moderation of 1000 posts per day, only of the posts on sensitive issues.


2) Part-time or not, I would think the primary purpose of this forum is revenue.


3) Everyone has such priorities—they are no excuse for lack of performance.


4) Nothing in this life is perfect.


5) It is cop-out. This is supposed to be a forum with rules, and the rules are not systematically and consistently applied when personal comments are allowed and even the moderators engage in personal abuse.


If it is impossible to apply the rules to the scope of these fora, then reduce the fora until they can.


There is, in my mind, no excuse for posting rules and not enforcing them. This is the result.

 

[Amigo Will]

Normal monitoring and pay wall. Thin skin need not apply.If words in cyber space get to you real life must be a b*&^%.

 

[Tearbear]

Normal monitoring and pay wall. Thin skin need not apply.If words in cyber space get to you real life must be a b*&^%.

That goes for thin wallets as well...I suppose it's about time I became a 'supporting' member.

 

[FamilyMan]

what would this site be without politics/religion/gun-control talk?

what would this site be without politics/religion/gun-control talk?

Unless these fora wish to become nothing more than a venue for discussion of bullet weight and hook size, politics, religion, and philosophy are inescapable aspects of everything we do.

Absolutely correct. Without the politics, religion, philosophy (especially philosophical quotes) and poetry, there would be a virtual wasteland of this site left behind leaving just...... well, leaving a very popular and successful Alaska Outdoors oriented web site.

Sorry if this is so personal of a question that will it force you to report me again, but your quote above seems to strongly imply that this site would be nothing without politics/etc... so, why did you join here? And something keeps drawing you back here, though you pretty clearly state that you completely differ with its mgmt and have extreme problems with other members obeying the rules while around you. What brings you back?

I myself had hopes for the second amendment forum also, but they're waning fast.