Stick a fork in it!

kgpcr

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Looks like another bad year for Kenai Kings. Why is it the US does nothing to manage fish until they are almost gone? Look at cod in the NE. almost fished to the ponit where not enough are left to repopulate teh stocs. WELL DONE US. their incompetence's killed the big kings coming back to where we are left with small kings and the genetics are gone! WELL DONE!! Why did it even open for one day this year? Might just as well wait until they hit the endangered specie list! Then look out but hey we deserve it
 

mark knapp

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Looks like another bad year for Kenai Kings. Why is it the US does nothing to manage fish until they are almost gone? Look at cod in the NE. almost fished to the ponit where not enough are left to repopulate teh stocs. WELL DONE US. their incompetence's killed the big kings coming back to where we are left with small kings and the genetics are gone! WELL DONE!! Why did it even open for one day this year? Might just as well wait until they hit the endangered specie list! Then look out but hey we deserve it

It's individual states that primarily manage fish and wildlife, not really the federal government. (There are some exceptions)

It's a complicated issue but in short, if you close it, people complain, if you open it other people complain. If you close it but make it catch and release other people complain. Sometimes, it's all the same people.

I'm not so sure about the cod in north east but as for the kings, I'm pretty sure sure they could have closed the whole thing down years ago and the same thing would have happened anyway because a lot of the problem is not from fishing in the terminal fishery, it's because of interception in the high seas by foreign fishing fleets and other things.

If you look at places where the States have full control of fish and game I would give them a pretty good rating. (I know there are other opinions)
 
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4merguide

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It's individual states that primarily manage fish and wildlife, not really the federal government. (There are some exceptions)

It's a complicated issue but in short, if you close it, people complain, if you open it other people complain. If you close it but make it catch and release other people complain. Sometimes, it's all the same people.

I'm not so sure about the cod in north east but as for the kings, I'm pretty sure sure they could have closed the whole thing down years ago and the same thing would have happened anyway

No, but closing it down, to err on the side of caution sure wouldn't have hurt the kings either. Weather it would make an overall difference is hard to say, but more kings on the spawning beds means more fish. That's not rocket science. I could care less that people complain if it means the utmost amount of kings get to spawn. Imo, Kenai king fishing should have been closed down completely many years ago.
 

SmokeRoss

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Shutting King fishing down completely years ago would have put more spawners in the river. And those spawners would have had a larger percentage of big fish. It's over. Sound the death knell.
 

mark knapp

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No, but closing it down, to err on the side of caution sure wouldn't have hurt the kings either. Weather it would make an overall difference is hard to say, but more kings on the spawning beds means more fish. That's not rocket science. I could care less that people complain if it means the utmost amount of kings get to spawn. Imo, Kenai king fishing should have been closed down completely many years ago.

I'm sure you guys are right. It may have helped forestall the imminent for just a little bit but if we can agree that a huge percentage of the catch is done on open seas fisheries by both US commercial fleets and foreign fleets, shutting it down in the river might have slowed it down some, but not by much.

No matter what we do at the river, the fishery is doomed if nothing is done about the open seas catch. Grasp at straws if you want.

It's like trying to make change in the halibut fishery by putting tighter limits on the sport catch without doing anything to reduce the commercial catch. It just gives the commercial catch a higher allocation.

I'm not advocating for keeping it open or closing it, I'm just saying, efforts pointed in another direction may have better results.

I don't fish the Kenai or Cook inlet kings so I know I'm not part of the problem.
 
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mark knapp

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Everyone has a right to their own opinions, people here know that I'm not afraid to share mine, but I seldom complain.

Here's another opinion of mine, complaining here on this forum (I'm not pointing my finger at the OP or anyone else, this is just a general statement) amounts to little more than nothing, If someone is going to do it, without actually trying to do anything about the problem.

There's a lot of good sportsmen and women on this forum that have spent their share of time at advisory board meetings, fish and game board meetings and all the other similar meetings like I have, but in my mind, people that haven't attended any of those kinds of things to make public testimony really, in my humble opinion don't have a reason to complain (Or even a right to complain) because you are part of the problem. And those that complain and continue to fish a failing resource are even worse.

It's my sense that Smoke and Former, (this is purely rhetorical, no need to comment) fall into the first group of sportsmen, the one that attended meetings, and not the latter but I wonder how many people complained about the poor returns in the Kenai, did nothing about it and continued to fish it.

Then again, I could be all wet. It's not an uncommon phenomenon.
 

4merguide

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I'm sure you guys are right. It may have helped forestall the imminent for just a little bit but if we can agree that a huge percentage of the catch is done on open seas fisheries by both US commercial fleets and foreign fleets, shutting it down in the river might have slowed it down some, but not by much.

No matter what we do at the river, the fishery is doomed if nothing is done about the open seas catch. Grasp at straws if you want.

It's like trying to make change in the halibut fishery by putting tighter limits on the sport catch without doing anything to reduce the commercial catch. It just gives the commercial catch a higher allocation.

I'm not advocating for keeping it open or closing it, I'm just saying, efforts pointed in another direction may have better results.

I don't fish the Kenai or Cook inlet kings so I know I'm not part of the problem.

I'll be the first to admit that bycatch is ridiculous and overharvesting on the high seas I'm sure plays a huge part. That's why I feel king fishing should have been closed many years ago. I haven't fished for a Kenai king in over 20 years because of it.
 

SmokeRoss

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Everyone has a right to their own opinions, people here know that I'm not afraid to share mine, but I seldom complain.

Here's another opinion of mine, complaining here on this forum (I'm not pointing my finger at the OP or anyone else, this is just a general statement) amounts to little more than nothing, If someone is going to do it, without actually trying to do anything about the problem.

There's a lot of good sportsmen and women on this forum that have spent their share of time at advisory board meetings, fish and game board meetings and all the other similar meetings like I have, but in my mind, people that haven't attended any of those kinds of things to make public testimony really, in my humble opinion don't have a reason to complain (Or even a right to complain) because you are part of the problem. And those that complain and continue to fish a failing resource are even worse.

It's my sense that Smoke and Former, (this is purely rhetorical, no need to comment) fall into the first group of sportsmen, the one that attended meetings, and not the latter but I wonder how many people complained about the poor returns in the Kenai, did nothing about it and continued to fish it.

Then again, I could be all wet. It's not an uncommon phenomenon.

Yes, some of us have attended meetings and contacted the proper representatives. It is still a good thing to voice ones opinion even on a forum such as this though. Our voices can be heard in many places.
 

gbflyer

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Haven’t stocks recovered fairly well in CA and OR? At least that’s what I hear from folks who fish there. Maybe, somehow, it’s not too late for the Kenai King.
 

mark knapp

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Yes, some of us have attended meetings and contacted the proper representatives. It is still a good thing to voice ones opinion even on a forum such as this though. Our voices can be heard in many places.

I agree, I'm trying to make a distinction between constructive conversation and just complaining all the time. Again, no one in particular.
 

SmokeRoss

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Haven’t stocks recovered fairly well in CA and OR? At least that’s what I hear from folks who fish there. Maybe, somehow, it’s not too late for the Kenai King.

Much of that is due to habitat restoration. Also there has been a lot of enhancement. I doubt the percentage of actual wild fish is very high. Most likely the descendants of hatchery fish even if they still have an adipose fin.
 

Chez

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Open up a rainbow season and cull them back a little, it couldn't hurt
 

river mist

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I would hate to be a decision maker for the Kenai and Kasilof systems, too many users, too much politics! If Kings are completely shut down, I would like this, beach set-net fishing also closes. I think the best short solution would be for the state to buy out the set-netters and completely close king fishing except for early hatchery king fishing on the Kasilof.
 

mark knapp

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I would hate to be a decision maker for the Kenai and Kasilof systems, too many users, too much politics! If Kings are completely shut down, I would like this, beach set-net fishing also closes. I think the best short solution would be for the state to buy out the set-netters and completely close king fishing except for early hatchery king fishing on the Kasilof.

They really don't have to buy out the set netters (remember, there are four other species to fish for), they commonly close the fishery for any given species until escapement is reached or the run is over. Whether or not they do is a totally different question.
 

SmokeRoss

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As for buying out set netters......You don't need to buy the permit, just the sites. The ones closest to the river mouths. Let them fish other places, or convert the setnet permit to a drift permit. No need to force them out of the business they have been in for years, or generations.
 

mark knapp

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The territory of Alaska offered a bounty on trout at one time. They also paid a bounty on Bald Eagles. Neither worked.

Seals too, but, I'm not sure you are right about weather or not they worked. Bounties did work but they would never fly today. It's a non-starter.
 

river mist

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With the current state of affairs, I think it would be a fair thing for the state to offer compensation to the set-net site holders, to get out, as way to recoup their investments rather than let them titer on king salmon or other salmon runs. I do not live in AK but I do pay property tax to the Soldotna borough. I live in southern CA and in 1993 inshore gillnetters we forced/bought out through state legislation. The sooner a gillnetter took the deal the more they got in compensation. The compensation was paid for by a limited time fishing license stamp. All I can say is after nearly 30 years, fishing has really improved! This buy-out was a citizens initiative, someone in AK needs to start thinking outside of the box.
 

Patsfan54

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With the current state of affairs, I think it would be a fair thing for the state to offer compensation to the set-net site holders, to get out, as way to recoup their investments rather than let them titer on king salmon or other salmon runs. I do not live in AK but I do pay property tax to the Soldotna borough. I live in southern CA and in 1993 inshore gillnetters we forced/bought out through state legislation. The sooner a gillnetter took the deal the more they got in compensation. The compensation was paid for by a limited time fishing license stamp. All I can say is after nearly 30 years, fishing has really improved! This buy-out was a citizens initiative, someone in AK needs to start thinking outside of the box.

There is no such thing as the Soldotna Borough, there is the Kenai Peninsula Borough that property holders pay property taxes to.

I'm not sure how the permit structure is set up in California, but here in Alaska these permits are limited entry and when this system was put in place in the 70's people were granted permits for free based upon previous years fishing activities. Since limited entry took place the permits are allowed to be bought and sold on the limited open market, the permit prices are now subjected to market forces of supply and demand as well as the value of the fishery itself. Legislation has been bandied about for a number of years to buy out setnetters for well over 10 times the going rate of a permit. I've considered buying a permit or two just to play the buyout lottery.
 

river mist

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Sorry, you are right. my taxes go to the Kenai Peninsula borough and I got them dated 7/1 and paid them in full! And yes it's called Limited Entry and Transferable and considered a commodity but still controlled by the state. Lobster permits in my region are the same but if the state wants to change the system they can so what is you point!
 


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