Akgramps
Well-known member
I question the state's wisdom in requiring online reporting, certainly it can be a option, personally I think it should be a choice
Thoughts.......
Thoughts.......
SHOULD ONLINE REPORTING BE REQUIRED?
- Thread starter Akgramps
- Start date
It's a cost saving measure that results is less time spent manually entering data and less money spent on postage. I'm totally good with it being mandatory and assume more such reporting will move online in the years to come.
Akgramps
Well-known member
So you would require everyone to own a computer, be a computer literate and have a internet connection in order to hunt/fish ( harvest) game legally?
Most but not all are comfortable with computers, but not everyone has internet service, I get it as a option, but mandatory is a step too far for FS&G.
IMHO
I am not fond of it, but I shrimp a lot so a lot of entries for me.
But I can see the times savings for the state and someone trying to read all of those reports and sorting thru the information. I learned to do some, copy/pasting and it helps.
But I can see the times savings for the state and someone trying to read all of those reports and sorting thru the information. I learned to do some, copy/pasting and it helps.
Akgramps
Well-known member
I know how to do it, but does every person that shrimps have the ability, connection and equipment at home to do this? How is using a computer anything close to being connected to the taking of game?
To some degree I understand. My father has very few computer skills and honestly struggles with figuring out how to turn one on. I'm generally called when he needs to do even the most basic of tasks on a computer. But almost all people who would have the wherewithal to go shrimping would also have the ability to at least find someone who could help them report online.
I know that most people on here prefer a government that spends less money or at least spends that which it has wisely. Manual data entry from tens of thousands of shrimp, dipnet, and hunting harvest reports is hugely time intensive and thus costs significant money. Online reporting is far more efficient and cost effective.
I know that most people on here prefer a government that spends less money or at least spends that which it has wisely. Manual data entry from tens of thousands of shrimp, dipnet, and hunting harvest reports is hugely time intensive and thus costs significant money. Online reporting is far more efficient and cost effective.
Akgramps
Well-known member
Agreed with most of what you said, I simply do not believe it should be mandatory and computer skills should not be required to take game in AK.
I'm sure that if someone was incapable of turning one in electronically then they could go to an AKF&G office and they would gladly help get the data entered.
The amount of people in this state that can't do this electronically has got to quickly be approaching zero, and I'm sure fish and game will work with those who can not.
Akgramps
Well-known member
I would not disagree with anything you said, however someone that lives in Healy, Circle, Chistochina for example would have to make a pretty long drive to visit a F&G office. Its OK as a option, mandatory online reporting for taking game is unacceptable.
Would you also approve of a required app on your phone to report from the field where and when you hunted, location services required? I realize that tech for many areas may not be available today, but its coming. Don't get me wrong I am not Anti-Tech or anti F&G, as far as I am concerned they do a good job, we may not always agree with decisions they make, however we have a voice if we so choose to use it.
Akgramps
Well-known member
I probaly am the odd man here, I just wondered if others felt the same way...
I think there should should be a way for someone to hunt and gather without the need to spend any more money than is absolutely necessary. I understand not everyone is financially fortunate or technologically savvy enough to do the online things.
That being said, it is understandably cheaper and more efficient for F&G to do this type of data gathering electronically. So if we are going to want to keep the non-electronic options alive, we also can't bitch about properly funding them.
kwackkillncrew
Well-known member
I have a hard time believing that there are people who go out shrimping in PWS that dont have the means or capability to report online at this day and age.
Akgramps
Well-known member
OK, so its hard to believe... should it be mandatory...?
kwackkillncrew
Well-known member
the way i am thinking of it is they have calculated a sustainable amount of harvest without hurting the fishery. The only way they can regulate the take right now is by reducing the number of pots.
In a registration hunt they have a max amount of animals they allow hunters to take and require reporting a successful hunt within 3 or 5 days (i forget, or maybe it depends on the hunt) this way they have an accurate count on the animals harvested which makes sense.
As the reporting goes for shrimp right now they have no idea what the take was until the season is over and the damage has been done. You used to be able to shrimp with 5 pots, and the past how many years there has been EO's to limit the number of pots used, which means the past year we went over the allotment. I believe something has to change whether its an annual limit on shrimp or mandatory online reporting. If something doesnt change next thing you know we will be down to 1 shrimp pot or no season and that would be really unfortunate because a small percentage of people doesn't know how to use the internet.
So i guess i think there should be mandatory online reporting throughout the season so FnG can keep a closer eye on the amount being harvested. You should have to report within say a week of your trip.
If that is too cumbersome for people then have a mandatory reporting at the end of July so FnG can see approximately how much has been caught for the first part of the season.
In a registration hunt they have a max amount of animals they allow hunters to take and require reporting a successful hunt within 3 or 5 days (i forget, or maybe it depends on the hunt) this way they have an accurate count on the animals harvested which makes sense.
As the reporting goes for shrimp right now they have no idea what the take was until the season is over and the damage has been done. You used to be able to shrimp with 5 pots, and the past how many years there has been EO's to limit the number of pots used, which means the past year we went over the allotment. I believe something has to change whether its an annual limit on shrimp or mandatory online reporting. If something doesnt change next thing you know we will be down to 1 shrimp pot or no season and that would be really unfortunate because a small percentage of people doesn't know how to use the internet.
So i guess i think there should be mandatory online reporting throughout the season so FnG can keep a closer eye on the amount being harvested. You should have to report within say a week of your trip.
If that is too cumbersome for people then have a mandatory reporting at the end of July so FnG can see approximately how much has been caught for the first part of the season.
Akgramps
Well-known member
I appreciate the concern for the fishery, which I share. I have had some discussions regarding this with Jay and do not have a workable solution. It is a honor system and some people have no honor. Personally I look at shrimp as a delicacy, my wife and I enjoy the whole process, however I would never look at recreational shrimping as a means to feed the family. Some do and I find that troubling, if one can afford the equipment and means to go shrimping then I suspect they can afford acquiring larger quantiles of proteins in other ways as well. If I was somehow stuck out there and shrimp was all I had than, so be it. It really is similar to some of the subsistence hunts/fisheries... and people show up with expensive motorhomes, trucks, boats..... subsistence my azz.
I think accurate reporting is important and personally I think online could be less accurate as that is always after the fact, season is home, shrimp is in the freezer. If it is filled out on the water, in ink as required than its a matter of turning it in. People are most likely to be more accurate on the water as there is the potential they could get checked. Once home its a different story, and if someone shrimps a lot it could be several pages, my permit is usually one plus page. I have reported empty pots and locations as required. Typing, copying, pasting..... maybe a few entry's get skipped, bear in mind the pot allotment is based on catch amounts based on the aforementioned "honor "system. Underreporting would theoretically maintain a higher pot allotment.
I dont necessary think that is everybody, however I read enough on hear to know there are abuses of this fishery, how much shrimp does one need? giving away a lot of shrimp or shipping it out of state seems like a abuse of the fishery, yet there are people on here that admit to that and admit to shrimping every other day... my lord, what would I do with all those shrimp...?
Bottom line for me is I dont believe online reporting guarantees accuracy and I dont believe mandatory online reporting should be required, electronic devices and smarty pants phones have worked there way into our life and are supposed to improve our life's, however that could be questioned. It helps F&G and I am not adverse and would do it if it wasn't mandatory.
Its about compliance, and doesn't set well with me. Its a fishery........... not a video game...
kwackkillncrew
Well-known member
We view shrimp the same way as in its a special type of dinner if we are making it. We average around 20 packages of shrimp which ends up roughly around 400 shrimp a year which is probably pretty low compared to gungho shrimpers. I was thinking you have to write it down when your on the water but then have to report when you get service or back to your computer just like when reporting a harvest with a big game animal. I report all my empty pots! I think people might seem to get a ego and think ugh if i put down a empty pot its going to hurt my emotions and FnG will think i am a bad shrimper. Let be honest we are doing the research for them with this fishery. Theres no way they can get accurate counts with a couple boats to see whats truly down there. If recreational shrimpers are not being honest with their cards its only going to hurt future shrimpers.
In the spring I shrimp almost every other day stopping when the seiners come in. When it is bear season, I hunt bears. When the salmon are in, I salmon fish. I don't hunt hares, spruce hens, moose, caribou down here because we don't have them. To me, those are limited resources. When you live in a community with limited resources, you use the resources available to you.
I used to love watching the $100,000 campers up on the Copper running fish wheels as different vehicles pulled up every day to take fish home. Fair? Is it unfair to me that people in remote villages are allowed 5 caribou when I can't even get a permit to try? Is it fair that people in Anchorage pay on average 50-cents a gallon less than I do for fuel or half what I pay for a 2X4? Valdez is the largest community in Alaska that I have lived. I couldn't live in Anchorage or Fairbanks. I can visit there about 1-2 days and I have to leave. I usually drive the 550-mile round trip in one day, so I don't have to stay.
I choose to live in a seacoast community because of the opportunities and take the good with the bad. 14" of rain so far this month. My choice. Others like living in cities/villages and are closer to other resources. Their choice. If you live in a place with caribou, you caribou hunt. You put on the table, the resources you have. I am certainly not going to feel bad if I go fishing and enjoy boating because others that don't live on the coast can't.
Akgramps
Well-known member
I think you just said you fill your freezer with shrimp because of where you choose to live.
This might should be a general fish and game management discussion item rather than being in the shellfish section, since it will all soon be done via the interwebs series of tubes.
Specifically regarding shellfish, while we have a big coastline there isn't much required reporting for the majority of it. We have public libraries that do not charge for computer use or internet access, there are public ADF&G offices that if online reporting is required would no doubt provide a means for doing so.
When it comes to reporting game, an issue that affects much more of the state than shellfish reporting, this could certainly be a different and more cumbersome issue for some.
I support government efficiency whenever it can be found since it is so rarely seen, if online reporting saves money that can be netter used to further our opportunities to harvest fish and game then I'm all for it.
Specifically regarding shellfish, while we have a big coastline there isn't much required reporting for the majority of it. We have public libraries that do not charge for computer use or internet access, there are public ADF&G offices that if online reporting is required would no doubt provide a means for doing so.
When it comes to reporting game, an issue that affects much more of the state than shellfish reporting, this could certainly be a different and more cumbersome issue for some.
I support government efficiency whenever it can be found since it is so rarely seen, if online reporting saves money that can be netter used to further our opportunities to harvest fish and game then I'm all for it.
Since the reporting for PWS shrimp is counted in gallons of whole shrimp and since most people have absolutely no idea what 1 gallon of whole shrimp is, I tend to think that most recreational shrimpers do what most recreational fishermen do and they stretch the truth. I'm such a good shrimper I caught 5 gallons of shrimp in one pull, or I caught 15 gallons of shrimp in one day, when in fact they caught a 5 gallon bucket full of water with 2 gallons of shrimp. I know some who "catch" an impossible number of shrimp and I have no doubt they report it.
F&G uses a calculation to figure out how many shrimp make up a gallon of whole shrimp, the reporting we all do is a part of that calculation and it impacts the number of pots allotted each year. The reason you can use 3 pots in some areas and 2 in others is to try and incentivize spreading the harvest out instead of having it closest to the two main points of access, this is based upon harvest reporting, look for the number of pots to continue to increase the further you are from port in future years. Catch Per Unit Effort (CPUE) is the true measure of the health of the stock, it's been trending up PWS wide even with the pot restrictions.
