Please help educate me on the Glock 10mm's

[colonel00]

I have pretty much decided to look further into getting a 10mm and I see the Glock 20 and 29 mentioned here quite a bit. For obvious reasons it is prefered by some as a lighter weight alternative for personal protection from the heavier .44 Mag or larger cannons. Plus, I really like the option to swap in a .40 S&W barrel which is what I normally shoot and it will save a bit of money on ammo. I also like the idea of having it in .40 mode for personal defense/concealed carry situations as (at this point at least) I am much more comfortable shooting .40.

So, I haven't had a chance to try to get hands-on with the different models and I plan to try to track some down. I am really liking the idea of the G29 and possibly in the Short Frame. I am 5'11" and don't have small hands but don't have huge bear paw hands either. I really like the idea of being able to go extremely small and compact as well as getting a grip extender, 15+1 mag, and extended barrel for what would appear to be close to what the G20 would give me.

So I guess here are some general starting questions that I am interested in:

Should I find that I like the feel and handling of the G29SF, would there be any major concerns with using this in stock for as a bear defense weapon? As mentioned I would probably upgrade and accessorize but I am interested in opinions in stock form.

Are there any other recommended modifications/additions such as different sights, springs, etc?

Is the handling difference between the G20 and G29 noticeable enough when shooting large, full power rounds enough that perhaps a G20 might be something I should look more at?

I am sure I will have more questions but thanks for getting me started.

 

[rimfirematt]

I didn't like the 29. It's too hard to control when shooting full power loads.

Also the shortened barrel will reduce velocity and that kind of makes it a moot point to carry one if you are looking at Gaining max power for bear. Might as well stick with a 40 at that point.

 

[hodgeman]

I've shot both and prefer the G20. The G29 is a stout handful and pretty thick to conceal, for woods use it doesn't really have any advantage either.

Also- the best way to make a Glock choke and puke is to start replacing stuff. Glocks are among the most reliable pistols on the planet right out of the box. Just buy it and shoot.

 

[colonel00]

Thanks for the input so far. The other thing I am noticing in doing some initial research this morning is the existence of different generations and I have seen mention of an option for compensation at least on a Gen 3 model. Any thoughts to the differences of generations or the compensated model?

 

[hodgeman]

Thanks for the input so far. The other thing I am noticing in doing some initial research this morning is the existence of different generations and I have seen mention of an option for compensation at least on a Gen 3 model. Any thoughts to the differences of generations or the compensated model?

The generations are mostly frame mods... functionally you won't see any difference. Folks can debate endlessly about which is "best" but it's solidly in the category of minutiae.

Compensators are there in the "C" models.... I prefer just one hole in the end of a pistol. I'm more afraid of getting some piece of grit blasted into my eye in a self defense encounter than recoil at 10mm levels. It's preference but in the cartridges the Glock comes in- recoil shouldn't be a real problem with decent technique.

 

[rimfirematt]

Not to mention that compensation further degrades velocity and power. Again if you need to add a compensator to shoot the 10mm you might as well get the 40.

The 40 S&W was invented for people that couldn't handle the recoil of the 10mm i.e. the FBI

 

[blasterak]

I think the size difference between the 20 and 29 is negligible. Both are large wide guns compared to other lesser caliber semi autos and aren't the best if you choose to conceal them. Although I do conceal my 20 sometimes with a IWB holster and it hides well untill you sit or bend down than the grip will print unless your wearing loose clothing. I haven't fired the 29 but i'd pick the 20 due to the longer slide and grip. I kept my glock 20 stock as I dont want to mess with Perfection but am upgrading the sights to factory Glock night sights and an aftermarket barrel for range use and hunting. I did purchase an Advantage Arms 22lr conversion for it and it works great for cheap practice(not currently as 22lr is non existent) as far as trigger, grip and follow through goes and also useful for small game hunting as it is accurate. I guess the only negative of the 10mm is finding the ammo and the price of it, locally I can't find it anymore but I haven't really looked to hard because I already have a stockpile of it.

 

[AK2AZ]

I will echo the sentiment that the 29 can be a bit big for concealing. In the winter concealment isn't an issue for me at 5'11/200. I have messed with mine quite a bit and have found mods that I like and some the gun doesn't. I changed to a fiber optic front sight, 21# full spring/guide rod/firing pin kit, a trigger connector and spring, added grip extensions to some 15 round mags, and also have an AA .22 kit. I don't recommend Lone Wolf for barrels due to the multiple problems I've had with mine (ported/extended 10mm). The grip extensions are nice for giving the feeling of a fullsize grip but are a bit cheesy. The pistol did not run well with recoil springs over 21#s even with hot loads. The G29 with 15 round mags, factory barrel, and some hot loads makes for a very dependable and hard hitting small frame weapon that I dare say would be hard to match. I will never give up my 29. Honestly I can't see a good reason to buy a 40 barrel as the price is about the same and the recoil is pretty darn close. I have always felt that you should shoot the same ammo at the range that you would for defense. There are soooo many flavors of 10mm out there it just makes sense to me to stick with a select few and figure out where they hit. I personally like the DT 165 grain HP (Remington golden saber bullet) for carry in town and DT 230 grain HC for woods carry. Halibut get the 200 grain FMJs.

 

[colonel00]

Thanks again for the continued input. Since concealed carry was only a optional thought and not its primary function, I am now leaning more towards the 20 as I think control is the most important thing. The .22 conversion kits do look interesting. They look a little pricey at around $300, at least the one I found on the internet. At the price you could just buy a separate .22 handgun but still having the option to shoot from the "same" weapon is intriguing. Hopefully I can find a shop that has both the 20 and 29 in both regular and SF so I can compare and see what I really want.

Please keep the info coming.

 

[blasterak]

The AA .22 conversion is pricey but I think it is invaluable because it allows me to practice trigger control, grip, follow through, firing drills etc at the range with the same weapon(minus the expense, recoil and weight of 10mm slide). I did get mine for under $200 used on Gunbroker last year but not likely to get them that cheap now with the current market.

 

[Murphy]

Well Glocks have become my thing here lately and I own several including the mentioned duo. The Generations of Glocks are important when we talk about group grip size. There is the G20, gen 2, (used) 3, and 4. The G29 is available now in gen 3 and 4. The gen 3 20, 21, 29 and 30 are available in the Gen 3 SF model these have a significantly shorter (front to back dimension) grip frame and much more grippable than the full frame guns. The gen 4 guns have this short frame dimension but have the added back straps to increase to original full frame size. Gen 4's also have a new rough textured finish that may be better suited for some shooters.

As for any modifications or accessories, there are some, I'd suggest. First and foremost the stock plastic Glock sights have to go and depending on your primary purpose there are a few replacements that excell. 10-8 Performance, Heine and Novak. Check those out. Also the Gen 4 recoil spring is a dual captive ring system and is a little softer recoil but likely no more reliable than gen 3 due to the plastic guide rod. I replace guide rods and springs and it has always enhanced the durability and reliability of the guns. I think those who say you can only make it worse by changing out parts don't really understand the system and do cause their own problems. But that's your call about those things. I've also yet to find one Glock owner who thought the Glock trigger was the best system and everyone shoots better after some trigger work by a knowledgable Glock Smith. As for recoil and compensators.....get real!! It is a very mild mannered round but the G29 is difficult to tame because there isn't enough frame to grip. (any generation) The Gen 4 is easier to shoot in these short grip guns. (G29, G30) A compensated model is not needed. As for concealablilty, the G29 is small enough but in a IWB holsters are a bit uncomfortable because of the width of the slide. And finally if you intend to get full power from a ten MM you do need a full size gun. They are not a bear gun but at least twice as good as nothing. I hope this helps with your selection.

 

[colonel00]

They are not a bear gun but at least twice as good as nothing.

Thanks for the great info. Are you saying 10mm in general are not bear guns or are you referring to the smaller models like the G29? As I mentioned originally, I am hoping to have something that is effective as a bear defense weapon without the boat anchor weight of .44 magnum or larger. Seeing that I live in Kansas currently (with the dream to someday have the fortune to live in Alaska) I am not in bear country that often but when I am I want something that that I can rely on when I am on what is now becoming a almost yearly trip up there. We did the Haul Rd hunt last year and only saw one grizz from a mile away or farther. However, in hindsight, I was woefully under-gunned with just a .40S&W. Anyway, as I mentioned, I think I am leaning more towards the G20 now and I just need to get out to some shops to hopefully get my hands on some to see what fits the best.

Love the info on the mods as well so keep that info coming. As I mentioned, I live down here in the Midwest but love reading this forum for the vast amount of information and the great members willing to share it.

 

[Murphy]

The 10MM in general is not a bear gun. If you plan to carry it as an outdoor gun, you certainly should get the G20. There is specialty ammo and longer hunting barrels available for them. I also am in Kansas, as I write this and Cabelas's in KC Kansas has FDE Gen 4 G20's. I don't know your current location but if you're in the neighborhood you might check them out.
The 10MM Glock has almost a cult following and I have to say it is a formidable weapon in the hands of man who can use it. I've hunted with handguns all my life and it can be used to take deer and hogs and is likely the most capable of all semi-autos in its class. It is not a 44 mag or 45 Win Mac (which can be found in a pack able holster gun. Some claim it to be the equal of the 41 Mag. I say it falls short but comes very close with good DT or BB ammo and a six inch barrel.

 

[colonel00]

Heh, yeah, I am in Western Shawnee just off of Johnson Dr and K-7 more or less so Cabela's is just around the corner and gets a visit about once a week. I just haven't been over to the gun counter in a while since it is a zoo every time I am there it seems. I will have to check them out. Had to look up FDE but those look pretty cool. If given the option, though, would you go with a gen 4 or 3. In your previous post you mention the new recoil system and plastic guide rod. Did the Gen 3 models not have the plastic rod? I know they did have the single spring.

 

[kubs]

I carry mine for bear. I am 5'9" with small hands, so quite a few years ago I sent my G20 to robar for grip reduction. The newer SF models are about the same. My G29 is carried frequently where I don't want to open carry. I use the 10-40 conversion barrels quite frequently since bulk .40 is easy to find here in AK and bulk 10mm is not. I have used three lonewolf barrels and four KKM barrels. I have not seen any significant changes in accuracy between the two brands. I have however seen less wear and longer barrel life from the KKM barrels. The aftermarket barrels have a little more case support for the high power loads (buffalo bore if you don't reload) but generally are not happy with the low power personal defense loads. It has been my observation that some of the hollow point bullets like to stovepipe, typically low recoil with a large "hole" for the hollow point bullet. Recoil shouldn't be an issue from the 20, I can shoot the 29 as is with heavy loads but that finger grip on the mag really feels nice. My G20 has a little longer barrel than factory. That being said I also have a 454casull & other revolvers that I hardly ever carry anymore.

 

[Murphy]

Heh, yeah, I am in Western Shawnee just off of Johnson Dr and K-7 more or less so Cabela's is just around the corner and gets a visit about once a week. I just haven't been over to the gun counter in a while since it is a zoo every time I am there it seems. I will have to check them out. Had to look up FDE but those look pretty cool. If given the option, though, would you go with a gen 4 or 3. In your previous post you mention the new recoil system and plastic guide rod. Did the Gen 3 models not have the plastic rod? I know they did have the single spring.

Yes every Glock comes with a plastic recoil spring guide rod. They are durable but will break. You want a gen 3 SF or a gen 4. I think a captive spring with steel rod is about $15. Yeah I've spent a lot of time in the KC area. Shot a few rounds at the bullet hole in OP, just off SM parkway. They have a few Glocks but no 20's. Cabelas's is still a zoo but guns are starting to stay on the shelf a few days now. The buying frenzie has slowed.

 

[MarineHawk]

... I replace guide rods and springs and it has always enhanced the durability and reliability of the guns. I think those who say you can only make it worse by changing out parts don't really understand the system and do cause their own problems. But that's your call about those things...

Among the many other good comments by Murphy with which I agree, the above, to me, is especially true. On my G20 SF, I have put Meprolight adjustable sights, and a KKM barrel (I have both the 4.6" and 6.0") and this replacement for the stock plastic guide rod and cheap spring: http://www.glockstore.com/custom-parts-amp-accessories/tungsten-competition-recoil-spring-for-glocks (for me, I picked the 22-lb. tungsten spring because I only fire the super-hot load through my G20F (I have more than a dozen .40 S&W autos for shooting lesser stuff)).

Hundreds of hot loads = zero failures. KKM barrel is reliability-inducing. Better in every way than the stock "Perfection." No problem with hot hard cast loads. Seriously, not making this up. I had only a few FTFs with the stock set-up. But I wanted to fire a lot of of hardast hot loads. Since then, I have never had a FTF with my KKM barrel and my 22-lb tungsten rod/spring.

Stock Glock is great; but not perfection; get rid of the plastic guide-rod and get a case-supporting rifled barrel. Better than "perfection." Perfection+--or something like that.

 

[MarineHawk]

The 10MM in general is not a bear gun. If you plan to carry it as an outdoor gun, you certainly should get the G20. There is specialty ammo and longer hunting barrels available for them. I also am in Kansas, as I write this and Cabelas's in KC Kansas has FDE Gen 4 G20's. I don't know your current location but if you're in the neighborhood you might check them out.
The 10MM Glock has almost a cult following and I have to say it is a formidable weapon in the hands of man who can use it. I've hunted with handguns all my life and it can be used to take deer and hogs and is likely the most capable of all semi-autos in its class. It is not a 44 mag or 45 Win Mac (which can be found in a pack able holster gun. Some claim it to be the equal of the 41 Mag. I say it falls short but comes very close with good DT or BB ammo and a six inch barrel.

While born in Texas, I too grew up in Kansas, like all cool people like Ike, I matured in Kansas. I have a narrow take on your comments above. I would like to hear your thoughts.

I’m great with a rifle of any caliber up to at least a .375 Wby. I’m good with big-bore revolvers, like my .454. But I’m great with my 10mm G20SF. I personally feel as well equipped with a fast-firing accurate 10mm (roughly 200gr at 1,200 fps) than I do with my (360gr 1,500fps) .454 FA revolver. I’ve watched a friend, (Whitworth on here) amazingly shoot 12-oz cans off of a fence post at exactly 100 yds off-hand with his .500 JRH. And I can aspire to do that, but, but I can’t say that I could stop a bear better with my .454 revolver than I could with multiple easy shots from my 200gr, 1,200 fps fast low-recoiling 10mm. Logically, the 200gr HC round at 1,200fps will penetrate (but with a smaller hole) the same as a 1,200fps .45 cal. bullet. But I can do it more efficiently and faster with more shots.

I think a big bore is more effective for those who are really skilled with it, but a 10mm packs a lot of punch and recoils like a squirt gun, and is pretty potent for big things for those who aren’t super-skilled with the massive magnums.

 

[brav01]

The G-20c has a compensated barrel and a pretty nasty flash out the ports at night which can effect both your night vision and follow up shots. IF you decide to purchase a 40 Short and Weak barrel for your G-20 you'll most likely need a lighter recoil spring for it, if you shoot alot of hot ammo out of the 10mm you'll most likely want a heavier recoil spring to help keep it from battering the frame stop. If you want to varmint hunt with the G-20 a 9x25 Dillon conversion is fun; A 100 grain 9mm bullet at nearly 2000 FPS shoots flat and uses the standard 10 mm mag, just a barrel change.

 

[colonel00]

Thanks again for the input MarineHawk and brav01. I had a chance to swing by Cabela's as Murphy mentioned and got a few minutes to get my hands on both a G20SF (Gen 3 obviously) and a Gen 4 G20. Both felt very similar as the Gen4 didn't have any back straps installed. I am more comfortable now with the choice of the G20 after handling a sub-compact too. I can't remember exactly which model it was, it wasn't a G29, but still similar in size. So, now I am sitting here debating the Gen3 G20SF vs the Gen4 G20. The Gen4 was FDE as mentioned by Murphy and around $650 with the G20SF about $30-$40 cheaper if I remember correctly. I am guessing that there will probably be more accessories and parts available for the Gen3, at least for a while. So, any opinions on whether the Gen4 is worth it for a little more money?