pic of Elmer Keith?

[abreitzm]

Asked this question in the Cableas thread yesterday but probably too buried to get any kind of response so will create a separate thread and see if I can get an answer.
Was in Cabelas the other day and had to use the head. Coming out of the men's bathroom I noticed a pic on the wall of an older gentleman in a cowboy hat with a moose down. Have only seen a couple of pics of Elmer Keith but it sure looked like what I remembered him looking like. Is this a pic of Elmer Keith? Probably not but was just wondering.

 

[mainer_in_ak]

Yes, I even quizzed some of those goobers who worked there, so they would recognize the legend, Keith, because none of em had a clue. It was him and his wife, packing a 55"+/- moose via horseback from the Slana River back in the 1930's. The moose was shot with a 333 OKH, using a 300 grain kynock round nosed bullet. That was back in the day, when gun writers had enough balls to push the proper velocity of better than 2300 fps from 300 grainers in both the whelen and the 333 okh. That was also back in the day when 300 grainers were the common choice for the 333 and the 35 whelen.

 

[323]

Yes, I even quizzed some of those goobers who worked there, so they would recognize the legend, Keith, because none of em had a clue. It was him and his wife, packing a 55"+/- moose via horseback from the Slana River back in the 1930's. The moose was shot with a 333 OKH, using a 300 grain kynock round nosed bullet. That was back in the day, when gun writers had enough balls to push the proper velocity of better than 2300 fps from 300 grainers in both the whelen and the 333 okh. That was also back in the day when 300 grainers were the common choice for the 333 and the 35 whelen.

Well did you tell them who you were Mainer? **** once I found who you were I was like **** that man is a legend and why in the hell isn't their a statue in down town anchorage of this man!

 

[abreitzm]

Thanks Mariner! I had a feeling it might have been him - although all the particulars make me wonder if you are just pulling my leg. If true, did he write about it in one of his books?

 

[abreitzm]

Just found the pic on the internet. One of many maintained by the Cabelas' Elmer Keith museum out of Idaho. The pic claims it was a 65 and 1/2 inch bull but no stats on what he was shooting. Not challenging you Mariner as I am no expert on calibers (or Elmer Keith for that matter) but my info (which could be incorrect) says the 333 OKH was developed in 1945 and if the pic was from the 30's the timeline doesn't fit.

 

[elmerkeithclone]

Just found the pic on the internet. One of many maintained by the Cabelas' Elmer Keith museum out of Idaho. The pic claims it was a 65 and 1/2 inch bull but no stats on what he was shooting. Not challenging you Mariner as I am no expert on calibers (or Elmer Keith for that matter) but my info (which could be incorrect) says the 333 OKH was developed in 1945 and if the pic was from the 30's the timeline doesn't fit.

Old Elmer played with more wildcat cartridges than one can shake a stick at. The .333 was his favorite caliber. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Elmer was shooting a a .333 OKH long before it he went public with it. Of course there is know way we will ever know everything about Elmer and it's probably a good thing.

 

[abreitzm]

I am beginning to think Mainer might have been right about the caliber and maybe the date of the hunt was incorrect. Mr. Keith was born in 1899 and in the 1930s he would have been in his 30s. The pic makes him look more like he was in his 50s so maybe a hunt sometime in the 1950s? The timeline would then be correct as to the caliber.

I have question regarding another pic in the store. The pic outside of the womens' restroom has 3 hunters with recurves (some time in the 60s maybe). Any guess as to who they are?

 

[mainer_in_ak]

no worries, I'll get to redin again in some of them keith pages, and make corrections. dates from books, don't do will in my aging brain, I'll check that very picture from one of my keith books.....wait one.

 

[Smitty of the North]

Yes, I even quizzed some of those goobers who worked there, so they would recognize the legend, Keith, because none of em had a clue. It was him and his wife, packing a 55"+/- moose via horseback from the Slana River back in the 1930's. The moose was shot with a 333 OKH, using a 300 grain kynock round nosed bullet. That was back in the day, when gun writers had enough balls to push the proper velocity of better than 2300 fps from 300 grainers in both the whelen and the 333 okh. That was also back in the day when 300 grainers were the common choice for the 333 and the 35 whelen.

Wal, somebody oughta call them "GOOBERS" or something.

Here, they's sellin guns and telling folks all about them, and they don't even know, about Elmer Keith, let alone recognize his picture.

Smitty of the North

 

[Smitty of the North]

Old Elmer played with more wildcat cartridges than one can shake a stick at. The .333 was his favorite caliber. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Elmer was shooting a a .333 OKH long before it he went public with it. Of course there is know way we will ever know everything about Elmer and it's probably a good thing.

I bleeve you're right, about that.

I read Elmer's Autobiography, one time ago, and he was a man with strong, and often dogmatic opinions that he didn't mind sharing. He grew up in Missouri, before moving out west, and SOME of the things he described, and the way they lived back then were a bit like it was when I grew up there, only he was further North. (Probably a Yankee)

In some ways, Elmer reminded me of my Dad. My Dad was NOT a Gun Guy, though. To him, guns were just tools.

Smitty of the North

 

[elmerkeithclone]

I am beginning to think Mainer might have been right about the caliber and maybe the date of the hunt was incorrect. Mr. Keith was born in 1899 and in the 1930s he would have been in his 30s. The pic makes him look more like he was in his 50s so maybe a hunt sometime in the 1950s? The timeline would then be correct as to the caliber.

I Elmer didn't live a sheltered life! He looked like he was in his 50's when he was really in his 30's. I can remember when I was a kid, my Grandpa talked about Elmer a lot. There was a picture on the buffet in Grandpa's living room that had a picture of my Grandpa and Elmer in St Lewey(as gramps called it). They both had on cowboy hats and were holding up beer cans in a fashion as to be offering up a toast to something. Grndpa had a high regard for Elmer and for drinkin and more than one time I heard to story of when he and Elmer tied one on in St. Lewey!

 

[7STW]

Just read "HEXX I was there!".Rodeoing and cowboying are not the ingredients to have Cindy Crawford skin or fewer than maybe 10 broken bones by your 30s.Not to mention maybe a few broken noses when the boys got "liquored up".

Elmer's distain of smaller high velocity cartridges ("The 270 is a good coyote gun") was partly a function of the fact that VERY few bullets existed in the 30s,40s and early 50s that would hold together and penetrate at 3000FPS or higher for 30 cal and under.Today we have dozens of choices for the 24s to 30s which do.

So Keith was a "transitional" hunter and shooter...he liked big bullets at moderate velocities which largely held together through tough stuff and penetrated deeply.

Still not a bad recipe for today's hunting...:>)

 

[Smitty of the North]

Just read "HEXX I was there!".Rodeoing and cowboying are not the ingredients to have Cindy Crawford skin or fewer than maybe 10 broken bones by your 30s.Not to mention maybe a few broken noses when the boys got "liquored up".

Elmer's distain of smaller high velocity cartridges ("The 270 is a good coyote gun") was partly a function of the fact that VERY few bullets existed in the 30s,40s and early 50s that would hold together and penetrate at 3000FPS or higher for 30 cal and under.Today we have dozens of choices for the 24s to 30s which do.

So Keith was a "transitional" hunter and shooter...he liked big bullets at moderate velocities which largely held together through tough stuff and penetrated deeply.

Still not a bad recipe for today's hunting...:>)

That was the book I read, quite a few years ago. I couldn't afford buying it, so I checked it out from the Library.

I think that it's still a fact, although to a lesser degree, that it's better to use heavy for caliber bullets. (Even with better constructed bullets we have nowadays.)

Sometimes it Does restrict velocity, especially with small capacity cases, but that is not always an issue with some folks, for whatever the reason. Light bullets don't always shoot flatter, anyway, even though they start out faster. The heavies can even pass the lightweights and arrive first, depending on the particulars.

I judge a cartridge on what it does with a heavy for caliber bullet. I like high velocities within reason, but I don't shoot at extreme ranges, so I probably shouldn't worry about what is bestest all the time.

Some experienced people say that a bullet of High Sectional Density at Moderate Velocity is the most reliable for killing game. That makes sense to me.

Smitty of the North

 

[abreitzm]

Anyone with knowledge of the pic of the 3 guys with recurves? Could one of them be Fred Bear? Just a wild guess.

 

[Nanook]

Me and Elmer

Me and Elmer

I went to The University of Montana in Missoula, MT in the early 60's Bob Ward's gun shop was the predominant shop in the town. Ivar Henricksen was the resident gunsmith then and on several occasions I met Elmer Keith and Charley O'Neal there. What an honor to be in their presence. I have 9 of Elmer's books autographed to me. He wrote 10 but Samworth Publishing printed very few copies of "Rifles for Big Game".

Page 298 of Keith an autobiography, he states: "In the mid 1960's Lorraine and I made two different month long hunts in Alaska, hunting in the Slana, a branch of the Copper, and the Copper River itself for Caribou, Moose, sheep and Grizzly. On the first trip in 1963 we obtained two good Moose, one with a 54-inch spread, the other 65¼." The caption of the picture in the Autobiography book page-214 reads; ""Mrs. Keith and I on a cold day on the Slana river in Alaska with my 65¼-inch Moose. He went down from two heart shots with my .338 Winchester Magnum Model 70 using 300 grain slugs at 250 yards." So there you have it "straight from the Horse."

We both got our M70's in 1962. At Elmer's insistence Ivar took the guns and opened the mag well and made them into magnum length actions so we could shoot the 275 gr. Speer, seated out. I seem to remember that our load was 74.0/surplus H4831. Lord, that gun kicked! I killed two Elk with mine.

Here are a couple of pictures taken at Joe Merrill's house when I was on leave in 1966.

 

[sayak]

I remember Bob Wards. My dad would take us there when we came into town from Seeley Lake.

 

[Nanook]

My girlfriend's grandfather had a cabin a few miles up the Rumble Creek Road. Seely Lake is one of the prettiest places in the World.

 

[elmerkeithclone]

I went to The University of Montana in Missoula, MT in the early 60's Bob Ward's gun shop was the predominant shop in the town. Ivar Henricksen was the resident gunsmith then and on several occasions I met Elmer Keith and Charley O'Neal there. What an honor to be in their presence. I have 9 of Elmer's books autographed to me. He wrote 10 but Samworth Publishing printed very few copies of "Rifles for Big Game".

Page 298 of Keith an autobiography, he states: "In the mid 1960's Lorraine and I made two different month long hunts in Alaska, hunting in the Slana, a branch of the Copper, and the Copper River itself for Caribou, Moose, sheep and Grizzly. On the first trip in 1963 we obtained two good Moose, one with a 54-inch spread, the other 65¼." The caption of the picture in the Autobiography book page-214 reads; ""Mrs. Keith and I on a cold day on the Slana river in Alaska with my 65¼-inch Moose. He went down from two heart shots with my .338 Winchester Magnum Model 70 using 300 grain slugs at 250 yards." So there you have it "straight from the Horse."

We both got our M70's in 1962. At Elmer's insistence Ivar took the guns and opened the mag well and made them into magnum length actions so we could shoot the 275 gr. Speer, seated out. I seem to remember that our load was 74.0/surplus H4831. Lord, that gun kicked! I killed two Elk with mine.

Here are a couple of pictures taken at Joe Merrill's house when I was on leave in 1966.

That is real cool! thanks for sharing! Elmer is 67 years young in those pictures and looks 80. That's what all of the "clean" living did for him!

Though not a big man Elmer never worried about recoil. I have some old "gun rags" in a tub in the attic. I remember reading Elmer's little digs that he was always passing Jack O's way. This is not a quote because I don't recall the exact wording but he made reference to the .270 as a good ladies gun and if that is all of the recoil that Jack can handle then he ought to stick with it. That was for you Smitty!

 

[Smitty of the North]

That is real cool! thanks for sharing! Elmer is 67 years young in those pictures and looks 80. That's what all of the "clean" living did for him!

Though not a big man Elmer never worried about recoil. I have some old "gun rags" in a tub in the attic. I remember reading Elmer's little digs that he was always passing Jack O's way. This is not a quote because I don't recall the exact wording but he made reference to the .270 as a good ladies gun and if that is all of the recoil that Jack can handle then he ought to stick with it. That was for you Smitty!

What would JOC, think about the 243 Win.?

What would EK say?

Smitty of the North

 

[Smokey]

What would JOC, think about the 243 Win.?

What would EK say?

Smitty of the North

I would guess if JOC thinks the 270 was a ladies gun, then logic would make the 243 a youths gun? I put a lot of coyotes down with a Rem 700ADl in 6mm rem - really liked that gun with a fixed 6 Redfield.

BTW there are some good pics of EKC in most post offices in around the country - dastardly looking chap...