Nosler ETips

[back country]

Has anyone else tried the ETips ? I have tried a couple of dozen test loads for the .308 with 150's but the accuracy seems to be sporadic, I'm wondering if it is an issue with copper fouling ? Nosler says they are "very possibly the best hunting bullet they've ever produced" and their numbers sure look good but ....... anyone ?

 

[Daved]

I used them in one of my RUMS and they performed exactly as advertised. One very dead bear with no bullet recovery and two bullets recovered from a moose. The two bullets were perfect mushrooms with 98% weight retention. Velocity was better than Barne's bullets and accuracy was about the same. That rifle has a new barrel now and shoots Barne's bullets even better but absolutely HATES the etips. Always pressure signs with test loads. I am using them in my 300win backup rifle now since I stocked up when I was shooting them out of the RUM and I have to use them for something. They shoot just fine out of the Winnie and I would not think twice about that bullet if I was using that gun for hunting. I think they would be fine out of any fast gun. I do not know what they would do at more sane (read 308) velocities though. They rival the accubond in BC but have a Crazy big bearing surface. Not such an issue with you with the 150g bullets.

Copper fouling is only an issue if you don't clean your gun with "Wipeout".

What are you hunting with them in OR. Deer, Elk, Pronghorn?

 

[stid2677]

I worked up some loads in my 300 WSM, found them to be fast and accurate. Never hunted with them though. I did run into to pressure issues fast. If I remember correctly there was even a note in the box that said to load on the low side.

I shot a box or so in my load work. Did not notice any fouling, but I use wipeout and clean my rifles at the range while the barrel is still warm. I also use a bore-scope to check the barrel.

I would do works ups for sure.

 

[kk alaska]

I seated them quite a ways off the lands and accuracy improved in 3 rifles 150 N E tips 2 06,s and a 300 WSM have shot nothing but paper with them though.

 

[back country]

Daved - I was working with them for an elk load in a 325 WSM (the 180's) and I don't think that weight of bullet is optimal for 8mm anyway - I decided yesterday to use a 300 Win Mag in Snake River this fall but I'll stick with the Accubonds for now, might even try 200's - hunting in the Snake River unit can present some long long shots with no options to get closer all too often, we draw tags so seldom that I get all wrapped up in the "gotta get an elk, gotta get an elk" syndrome and NEED to make myself settle back down to earth ! I've always felt that a 200 gr Accubond leaving the barrel at anything in the area of 3000 and beyond is all ANYONE would ever need in all of NA, am I wrong in this assumption ?

about the bearing surface, MAN ! are you ever right there ! "maybe" this bullet IS a good candidate for moly-coating ??

 

[marshall]

Has anyone else tried the ETips ? I have tried a couple of dozen test loads for the .308 with 150's but the accuracy seems to be sporadic, I'm wondering if it is an issue with copper fouling ? Nosler says they are "very possibly the best hunting bullet they've ever produced" and their numbers sure look good but ....... anyone ?

The bullet is made from the same composition as the Partition and Accubond jackets. As with all testing make sure your barrel is 100% free of contaminates.

After a proper cleaning run a light oil patch down the barrel followed by a dry patch to wipe out excess oil. This will allow the pores in the metal to hold a tiny amount of oil to prevent galling on the first dry shot. The powder residue will lube the following shots in your test.

I haven't noticed any additional fouling with the E-Tip's in the two rifles I shoot them from.

If you're still getting excess fouling consider Tubbs Final Finish to polish your bore

http://www.davidtubb.com/308-Loaded-Ammo-FinalFinish-TMS-ProPack

http://www.davidtubb.com/ff-kit-308-cal

 

[marshall]

I have tried a couple of dozen test loads for the .308 with 150's but the accuracy seems to be sporadic,

The .308Win is an easy cartridge to shoot accurate. Are you using quality brass and primers? Are you shooting any other hand loads with good accuracy from your rifle?

I reduced my pet 175gr VLD load by 0.5gr charge and dropped in a 180gr E-tip. It shoots the same groups at a predictably slower velocity. This will be my next deer load from the .308, the VLD was to destructive at close range.

 

[Rod in Wasilla]

I tried working up an e-tip load for my 270. I never could get it to shoot as well as I liked, and I ended up going back to the Accubonds that have worked so well in that rifle.

 

[marshall]

I tried working up an e-tip load for my 270. I never could get it to shoot as well as I liked, and I ended up going back to the Accubonds that have worked so well in that rifle.

Ahhh, the joys of reloading...

 

[back country]

marshall - Nosler brass (not seconds) 210M's RL-15 and Varget, Wilson seater

 

[back country]

I hadn't considered that the ETip "jacket" is made of the same material as the Accubond or Partition nor have I asked that question of them, you have I assume ? If that is a fact then it has to be simply more bearing surface that causes the increased pressures and possibly greater fouling - Nosler does say that it's recommended to use the "mid range" loads as practical maximums for the ETips though AND a long jump to the lands, that's from the guys in the SPS - I was under the impression that Nosler had used a different alloy mix for the Accubond jacket since they stated that "one" of the new qualities was reduced fouling, when it was introduced - Also, using a "light oil film" can be risky according to my interpretation of what every manual I've read states about oils left in the barrel and I don't understand what you mean because if you "need" a thin film of oil for that first shot post cleaning then what about the subsequent shots after ? There isn't any oil on the bullets I shoot ? I am confused, can you elaborate please ? thank you in advance

 

[marshall]

To hard to type on my phone, I'll write from the hotel this evening. I'll try and clear up the confusions from my post.

 

[back country]

thank you marshall .....

 

[marshall]

Back Country,

I confirmed the jacket material with a Nosler tech with a simple phone call to their customer service line. I had read a review in an online publication about the bullet and was interested in trying it in my 300 RUM. I did and I have been very pleased with it's performance both on paper and on game.

The following is copied from that review, the area in question is in bold print:

Introduced in 2007, the Energy Tip (E-Tip) bullet was developed to provide consumers with Nosler bullets for hunting in lead-free areas. It also offered hunters a higher-weight-retention option in the Nosler lineup. Manufactured from 95-percent copper/5-percent zinc—identical composition to the jacket material of the Partition, Ballistic Tip and AccuBond—via an undisclosed process, the non-jacketed E-Tip was Nosler’s first projectile to offer weight retention in excess of 70 percent—typically the E-Tip retained 95-percent-plus of the bullet’s pre-expansion weight. The gilding metal composition also reportedly reduced fouling and offered excellent accuracy and consistency. But its composition also required that, for a comparable weight, the bullet’s length increased markedly over that of lead-core projectiles. That meant that it occupied additional case capacity—reducing usable propellant space, especially in smaller capacity cases—and increased pressures. For example, the .30-cal., 180-grain E-Tip measured 1.474-inches long, which was 0.114-inches longer than a Ballistic Tip of the identical caliber and weight.

In regards to my light oil comment, please don't confuse that with leaving oil in your barrel. An oil wet bore is a bad thing and can result in a very high pressure condition. I said "a light oil patch followed by a dry patch to wipe out excess oil." All metal has cracks, pits, scratches, pores, etc. Bench rest shooter in my area clean there rifles then run a patch of Kroil down the barrel followed by a dry patch or two. Being inquisitive like I am I inquired. The light oil penetrates the flaws and leaves a very light trace in the flaws that helps to alleviate fouling from the first shot. Shooting a high speed, high pressure bullet in a squeaky clean dissimilar metal bore can and will cause galling. All bores and bullets are dissimilar metals, the galling is fouling. The powder residue in the bore after the first shot will work as a dry graphite lube for the following shots.

I have the benefit of using a bore scope that belongs to a friend. I've been able to see up close first hand what is actually in the bore before and after the shot. What I like the most is looking at bores that people would swear are clean. They are generally horribly fouled. It is because of this that I am a true believer in the Tubbs Final Finish product for production non-custom rifles.

Your reloading components are Top Shelf. The Nosler brass is very good, the 210M's are Federals best and the RL-15 is my pet load powder in my personal 1:10 twist 20" .308Win. Varget is a very close second in that rifle too.

With the E-Tip I simply took my pet load and reduced it by 0.5grs and loaded it to 2.805 COAL. It was really that simple to get a great shooting load. I guess that's why I'm shocked they don't preform in your .308

Just for reference... I use Hornady Match brass and Lapua brass in my personal .308Win. The Hornady brass is 167gr on average and the Lapua is 183gr on average. I used the lighter brass for the E-Tip loads since it has more powder space available to use with the longer than average E-Tip. I don't have any Nosler .308Win on hand but the Hornady looks similar to Winchester and weighs the same.

My rifle shoots the VLD's into the same hole with either case but the charge weights are 0.4gr different to reach the same velocity. It shoots the E-Tip inside of a 1/2". I will admit I didn't put a lot of effort into the E-Tip load since it is for deer hunting inside of 100 yards from a blind.

4 shots, 100 yards.

 

[back country]

Good explanation ! I am golden now .... Thank you very much - I am thinking that, in part, one reason may have been that I was doing the load work with a Kimber Montana 308, 1:11 twist and a pretty rough bore - I was going to firelap it but sold the gun instead, now have a Tikka Superlight and the bore is remarkably more smooth and consistent, after elk season I'll work some more with it, it now shoots 125 ballistic tips into 1/2" with as many shots as I want the group to be, 130 TSX's same with 5 shots and I just began with 150 Accubonds but it's gonna be a deer/antelope/whatever I want gun so that's as far as I'll venture at this point - For now, I have a 300 Win Mag I need to get finished off and ready for the Snake River elk hunt, I'll give the ETips a "quick" try and see or go with the 200 Accubond load - The vexing thing about prep for that particular hunt, which I've done at least 12 times in the past 25 years, is the wide open country and that sometimes you have a long shot with no opportunity to put the sneak on them and we're talking as big of bulls as Oregon produces so I just worry about having everything optimal and dialed, part of the hunt is the anticipation I guess ........
Thank you again for your time !

BTW, I've done a bit with CFE223 powder and in the 308 it has been working nicely thus far

 

[BrownBear]

Good, thoughtful post Marshall. Your insights about galling, oil, and powder residue are SOP among the serious bench shooters I know. There's a lot to learn from those guys.

BTW- Pretty "old school," but my very limited work with E-Tips in 308 gave the nod to 748, but I didn't get around to RL-15. Must try that, and thanks.

 

[marshall]

BTW- Pretty "old school," but my very limited work with E-Tips in 308 gave the nod to 748, but I didn't get around to RL-15. Must try that, and thanks.

Win748 will probably work fine. I have used BLC-2 and they are very similar. One thing for sure, nothing meters better than those ball powders.

I choose RL-15 because I have a ton on hand and it provides 100% case fill with the components I've selected. It also provides good speed and excellent accuracy.

I haven't tried the new Power Pro powders that surfaced from Alliant or the hot new CFE from Hodgdon. To much old stuff that needs to be burned up first...

 

[BrownBear]

I choose RL-15 because I have a ton on hand and it provides 100% case fill with the components I've selected. It also provides good speed and excellent accuracy.

I've always been "schooled" by Winchester and others that you need to keep their ball powders near max, and that reducing loads is even dangerous if you get carried away. Right or wrong, it's made me pretty twitchy and contributed to a feeling of limited "latitude" with ball powders.

That's a long-winded prelude for asking if a wider range of charges is useable with RL-15. Obviously I haven't used it (way too many old powders on hand to start buying new just yet). By nature and interest I'm more inclined to move down the charge scale than press for max all the time. IMR-3031 is featured in a lot of my lighter loads.

 

[mooneyman]

I always hunted elk with 165gr. Always did the job, killed a griz with a 150gr bullet, don't get caught up with heavy bullets sometimes lighter and faster is better. YMMV

 

[Daved]

Etip or accubond will do the trick for longish range persuits. Shoot what you are comfortable with I would say. I am going to dial in my 300 win this winter with the 180 etip. I have a goodly load at about 1 1/2 inches but think I can do better with seating depth and micromanaging my charge. Don't remember what the velocity was off the top of my head. Better than a 30-06 and not as fast as the RUM. Good to a few hundred yards and fine for a factory rifle. Best of luck. Post pics when you get back.