Rod in Wasilla
Active member
I don't know which link you're referring to, but here's a story that covers it.
Newtown revisited.
- Thread starter AlaskaHippie
- Start date
Rock_skipper
New member
Thanks Rod,
There's another one that says if you want to buy ammo, you will need to be fingerprinted, ( probably have to do that before you can get a cert. anyway ) You will have to get a mental checkup before you can get a cert.
Hmmmm looks like the state I want to move to.
There's another one that says if you want to buy ammo, you will need to be fingerprinted, ( probably have to do that before you can get a cert. anyway ) You will have to get a mental checkup before you can get a cert.
Hmmmm looks like the state I want to move to.
yukon254
Well-known member
Rock, looks like you are indeed correct.....http://rt.com/usa/connecticut-regulations-post-newtown-188/
Rock_skipper
New member
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-connecticut-gun-law-20130401,0,4439221.story
See if this works Dave, lol.
Hah it did, you just may have created a monster ( have to watch out how I use this power, Grins.)
See if this works Dave, lol.
Hah it did, you just may have created a monster ( have to watch out how I use this power, Grins.)
sayak
New member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2006
- Messages
- 6,117
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- 643
I used to believe that too, and then my consciousness evolved into understanding that bans only lead to more bans. I suspect Heston changed as well. Those who are the movers and shakers in the regulate and ban movement will never be satisfied with a partial ban. They have been patient in achieving their goal and will accept incremental steps in ridding the country and then the world of guns. This is why I stand shoulder to shoulder with gun owners who shoot fire arms I, myself, will never shoot and for which I have no affinity. I know that once they have banned the firearms with the specific features they associate with evil, and then there are more tragedies, they will next start in on another type, then then another. UBCs are just another way to slow down gun ownership and penalize the people who don't commit crimes. Law breakers will not comply and will obtain lethal weapons in other ways.A less well-known Heston quote (concerning the Gun Control Act of 1968): “This bill is no mystery. Let’s be clear about it. Its purpose is simple and direct. It is not to deprive the sportsman of his hunting gun, the marksman of his target rifle, nor would it deny to any responsible citizen his constitutional right to own a firearm. It is to prevent the murder of Americans.”
yukon254
Well-known member
Im sure most of you have heard about this fellow....he died in a car crash shortly after he wrote this......seems to me psych drugs might be the real problem, not firearms.....Woody' mentioned in this post, fished with us a few times....he was a great guy that had a lot going for him.....until his doctor put him on pills......This is the last post John Noveske made on his Facebook page before he was killed:
Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the **** doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,(Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in hisNew York high school.Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....
What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az
What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado
What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas OrWhat drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown CtRoberts is the only one that I haven't heard about being on drugs of some kind.
'
Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the **** doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,(Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in hisNew York high school.Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....
What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az
What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado
What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas OrWhat drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown CtRoberts is the only one that I haven't heard about being on drugs of some kind.
'
ADfields
New member
A less well-known Heston quote (concerning the Gun Control Act of 1968): “This bill is no mystery. Let’s be clear about it. Its purpose is simple and direct. It is not to deprive the sportsman of his hunting gun, the marksman of his target rifle, nor would it deny to any responsible citizen his constitutional right to own a firearm. It is to prevent the murder of Americans.”
Worked real well to, murder rates fell like a rock over the next ten years . . . Right?
But then what in the world do you guys think sport hunting has to do with 2A rights?
He was never my first pick as a gun rights spokesman but I wouldn’t cast too many stones while standing with Rosy, Shawn Penn, Jim Carry and a thousand other anti-gun nit jobs . . . There are just so many.
cdubbin
Well-known member
More quotes:
"Plea From 3 Ex-Presidents
The letter from three former presidents to the House:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives:
We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan"
"Why I'm for the Brady Bill
By Ronald Reagan; Ronald Reagan, in announcing support for the Brady bill yesterday, reminded his audience he is a member of the National Rifle Association
Published: March 29, 1991
"Anniversary" is a word we usually associate with happy events that we like to remember: birthdays, weddings, the first job. March 30, however, marks an anniversary I would just as soon forget, but cannot.
It was on that day 10 years ago that a deranged young man standing among reporters and photographers shot a policeman, a Secret Service agent, my press secretary and me on a Washington sidewalk.
I was lucky. The bullet that hit me bounced off a rib and lodged in my lung, an inch from my heart. It was a very close call. Twice they could not find my pulse. But the bullet's missing my heart, the skill of the doctors and nurses at George Washington University Hospital and the steadfast support of my wife, Nancy, saved my life.
Jim Brady, my press secretary, who was standing next to me, wasn't as lucky. A bullet entered the left side of his forehead, near his eye, and passed through the right side of his brain before it exited. The skills of the George Washington University medical team, plus his amazing determination and the grit and spirit of his wife, Sarah, pulled Jim through. His recovery has been remarkable, but he still lives with physical pain every day and must spend much of his time in a wheelchair.
Thomas Delahanty, a Washington police officer, took a bullet in his neck. It ricocheted off his spinal cord. Nerve damage to his left arm forced his retirement in November 1981.
Tim McCarthy, a Secret Service agent, was shot in the chest and suffered a lacerated liver. He recovered and returned to duty.
Still, four lives were changed forever, and all by a Saturday-night special -- a cheaply made .22 caliber pistol -- purchased in a Dallas pawnshop by a young man with a history of mental disturbance.
This nightmare might never have happened if legislation that is before Congress now -- the Brady bill -- had been law back in 1981.
Named for Jim Brady, this legislation would establish a national seven-day waiting period before a handgun purchaser could take delivery. It would allow local law enforcement officials to do background checks for criminal records or known histories of mental disturbances. Those with such records would be prohibited from buying the handguns.
While there has been a Federal law on the books for more than 20 years that prohibits the sale of firearms to felons, fugitives, drug addicts and the mentally ill, it has no enforcement mechanism and basically works on the honor system, with the purchaser filling out a statement that the gun dealer sticks in a drawer.
The Brady bill would require the handgun dealer to provide a copy of the prospective purchaser's sworn statement to local law enforcement authorities so that background checks could be made. Based upon the evidence in states that already have handgun purchase waiting periods, this bill -- on a nationwide scale -- can't help but stop thousands of illegal handgun purchases.
And, since many handguns are acquired in the heat of passion (to settle a quarrel, for example) or at times of depression brought on by potential suicide, the Brady bill would provide a cooling-off period that would certainly have the effect of reducing the number of handgun deaths.
Critics claim that "waiting period" legislation in the states that have it doesn't work, that criminals just go to nearby states that lack such laws to buy their weapons. True enough, and all the more reason to have a Federal law that fills the gaps. While the Brady bill would not apply to states that already have waiting periods of at least seven days or that already require background checks, it would automatically cover the states that don't. The effect would be a uniform standard across the country.
Even with the current gaps among states, those that have waiting periods report some success. California, which has a 15-day waiting period that I supported and signed into law while Governor, stopped nearly 1,800 prohibited handgun sales in 1989. New Jersey has had a permit-to-purchase system for more than two decades. During that time, according to the state police, more than 10,000 convicted felons have been caught trying to buy handguns.
Every year, an average of 9,200 Americans are murdered by handguns, according to Department of Justice statistics. This does not include suicides or the tens of thousands of robberies, rapes and assaults committed with handguns.
This level of violence must be stopped. Sarah and Jim Brady are working hard to do that, and I say more power to them. If the passage of the Brady bill were to result in a reduction of only 10 or 15 percent of those numbers (and it could be a good deal greater), it would be well worth making it the law of the land.
And there would be a lot fewer families facing anniversaries such as the Bradys, Delahantys, McCarthys and Reagans face every March 30."
"Plea From 3 Ex-Presidents
The letter from three former presidents to the House:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives:
We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan"
"Why I'm for the Brady Bill
By Ronald Reagan; Ronald Reagan, in announcing support for the Brady bill yesterday, reminded his audience he is a member of the National Rifle Association
Published: March 29, 1991
"Anniversary" is a word we usually associate with happy events that we like to remember: birthdays, weddings, the first job. March 30, however, marks an anniversary I would just as soon forget, but cannot.
It was on that day 10 years ago that a deranged young man standing among reporters and photographers shot a policeman, a Secret Service agent, my press secretary and me on a Washington sidewalk.
I was lucky. The bullet that hit me bounced off a rib and lodged in my lung, an inch from my heart. It was a very close call. Twice they could not find my pulse. But the bullet's missing my heart, the skill of the doctors and nurses at George Washington University Hospital and the steadfast support of my wife, Nancy, saved my life.
Jim Brady, my press secretary, who was standing next to me, wasn't as lucky. A bullet entered the left side of his forehead, near his eye, and passed through the right side of his brain before it exited. The skills of the George Washington University medical team, plus his amazing determination and the grit and spirit of his wife, Sarah, pulled Jim through. His recovery has been remarkable, but he still lives with physical pain every day and must spend much of his time in a wheelchair.
Thomas Delahanty, a Washington police officer, took a bullet in his neck. It ricocheted off his spinal cord. Nerve damage to his left arm forced his retirement in November 1981.
Tim McCarthy, a Secret Service agent, was shot in the chest and suffered a lacerated liver. He recovered and returned to duty.
Still, four lives were changed forever, and all by a Saturday-night special -- a cheaply made .22 caliber pistol -- purchased in a Dallas pawnshop by a young man with a history of mental disturbance.
This nightmare might never have happened if legislation that is before Congress now -- the Brady bill -- had been law back in 1981.
Named for Jim Brady, this legislation would establish a national seven-day waiting period before a handgun purchaser could take delivery. It would allow local law enforcement officials to do background checks for criminal records or known histories of mental disturbances. Those with such records would be prohibited from buying the handguns.
While there has been a Federal law on the books for more than 20 years that prohibits the sale of firearms to felons, fugitives, drug addicts and the mentally ill, it has no enforcement mechanism and basically works on the honor system, with the purchaser filling out a statement that the gun dealer sticks in a drawer.
The Brady bill would require the handgun dealer to provide a copy of the prospective purchaser's sworn statement to local law enforcement authorities so that background checks could be made. Based upon the evidence in states that already have handgun purchase waiting periods, this bill -- on a nationwide scale -- can't help but stop thousands of illegal handgun purchases.
And, since many handguns are acquired in the heat of passion (to settle a quarrel, for example) or at times of depression brought on by potential suicide, the Brady bill would provide a cooling-off period that would certainly have the effect of reducing the number of handgun deaths.
Critics claim that "waiting period" legislation in the states that have it doesn't work, that criminals just go to nearby states that lack such laws to buy their weapons. True enough, and all the more reason to have a Federal law that fills the gaps. While the Brady bill would not apply to states that already have waiting periods of at least seven days or that already require background checks, it would automatically cover the states that don't. The effect would be a uniform standard across the country.
Even with the current gaps among states, those that have waiting periods report some success. California, which has a 15-day waiting period that I supported and signed into law while Governor, stopped nearly 1,800 prohibited handgun sales in 1989. New Jersey has had a permit-to-purchase system for more than two decades. During that time, according to the state police, more than 10,000 convicted felons have been caught trying to buy handguns.
Every year, an average of 9,200 Americans are murdered by handguns, according to Department of Justice statistics. This does not include suicides or the tens of thousands of robberies, rapes and assaults committed with handguns.
This level of violence must be stopped. Sarah and Jim Brady are working hard to do that, and I say more power to them. If the passage of the Brady bill were to result in a reduction of only 10 or 15 percent of those numbers (and it could be a good deal greater), it would be well worth making it the law of the land.
And there would be a lot fewer families facing anniversaries such as the Bradys, Delahantys, McCarthys and Reagans face every March 30."
MontanaRifleman
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cdubbin,
What percentage of homicides are commited with a so called "assault weapon", more accurately, a semi-automatic rifle?
While I have a great deal of respect for President Reagan, I believe he erred in his reasoning concerning the 7 day waiting period. I believe he was influenced more by emotion than by facts. I believe Hinckly was on a mission and a 7 day waiting period would not have stopped him. The premiss behind such a waiting period is for someone who is emotionally charged to be denied access to a gun until they become uncharged. There are some weaknesses to that thinking. 1 - if the individual is denied one source of access to a gun, what is to stop him from obtaining it from another source? 2 - Hinckly was not emotionally charged. He was sick, deranged, intelligent, cold and calculating. He planned it out, stalked his quarry and executed his plan amid tight security.
I live in an area where there are many guns and few gun laws. We have a low crime rate and homicide rate. Chicago is an area that's has very few guns per capita compared to where I live and much stricter guns laws yet they have over 10 times the crime and homicide rate.
Some questions for you...
Why the discrepancy between Chicago and the Gallatin Valley in Montana?
Who owns guns in Montana?
Who owns guns in Chicago?
cdubbin
Well-known member
I hear ya, MR....I don't want to see a ban, either, just thought it was interesting that Ronnie was such an outspoken proponent of the '94 legislation...some folks might not know that. I like to look at a thing from all the angles, is all. Wish I could answer your questions, but I don't know anything about Chicago or the Gallatin Valley...tho I'm sure I know where I'd live if I had to pick one!
ADfields
New member
He was a good man but just flat wrong on this. Some of the stuff in that speech shows he had no grasp of gun law at the time, such as it has been illegal to buy a handgun in a non resident state since 1968. And yet again it did nothing but create a bigger government to harass the law abiding. We now have a long list of nuts and crooks that got guns just the same as they would have before and now the anti gun folks are right back at the well looking for more . . . then more . . . Then more still . . . Till they get the very last drop!
hogfamily
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hogfamily
New member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
- Messages
- 1,485
- Reaction score
- 124
Universal background checks.
For those that are for UBC exactly how do you seeing them work? Would you require all firearm transfers to have UBC?
How about a person selling or giving a firearm to a family member?
How about a parent passing a firearm to an adult son or daughter?
How about in a rural Alaska village where it is common for firearms to be sold, bartered, or given to family or friends and there is no one local to run a UBC?
Can you guarantee that that UBC will not be used as a type of registration?
Would you trust the government not to use UBC as registration?
Do you think criminals will submit to UBC?
How would UBC have stopped any of the massacres? How will they stop them in the future?
Do you think the mental health community and the ACLU will stand for mental health records to be put on an UBC data base?
Whom and what will define when someone is not mentally stable enough to purchase a firearm?
For those that are for UBC exactly how do you seeing them work? Would you require all firearm transfers to have UBC?
How about a person selling or giving a firearm to a family member?
How about a parent passing a firearm to an adult son or daughter?
How about in a rural Alaska village where it is common for firearms to be sold, bartered, or given to family or friends and there is no one local to run a UBC?
Can you guarantee that that UBC will not be used as a type of registration?
Would you trust the government not to use UBC as registration?
Do you think criminals will submit to UBC?
How would UBC have stopped any of the massacres? How will they stop them in the future?
Do you think the mental health community and the ACLU will stand for mental health records to be put on an UBC data base?
Whom and what will define when someone is not mentally stable enough to purchase a firearm?
cod
Well-known member
Thanks hogfamily for your contributions to this thread. Excellent short vid telling the story of what everyone knows. Even the leftists.
Thanks also to the others who have contributed to this thread and others for asking and demanding the left finish the conversations that THEY have thrust on the law abiding citizens. It's time we hold THEIR feet to the fire. I think this thread has demonstrated those that don't share are views on 2a don't want, nor can they have a complete honest conversation about 2a.
Hippie, I don't enjoy personal back and forths but you have not answered questions posed by many here and then claim victimization and slander. A reread shows otherwise.
I have yet to see a 'statist' view argued to a logical conclusion in an open forum.
cod
Well-known member
Post 208 by clubbin is just more proof that its not just dems that are the problem. There is ample problems with repubs, too. While some of them make ' honest' mistakes there are plenty of others that would be more than happy to run your life if you let them.
boodog
New member
Reagan and heston didn't have the benefit of the following 20 to 40 years of data we do today. the FACTS prove beyond a shadow of doubt that firearms ownership is a massive positive for this country. those who deny reality or look for isolated cases or quotes from some famous person to bolster their position are pathetic and WRONG! I believe polititions are willing to accept a level of crime to aid their motives.
sayak
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I've mentioned this before, but I always find it interesting that the same folks who love to say Reagan was senile toward the end of his presidency, also love to cite him as an authority on banning certain firearms in 1994.I hear ya, MR....I don't want to see a ban, either, just thought it was interesting that Ronnie was such an outspoken proponent of the '94 legislation...some folks might not know that. I like to look at a thing from all the angles, is all. Wish I could answer your questions, but I don't know anything about Chicago or the Gallatin Valley...tho I'm sure I know where I'd live if I had to pick one!
As for the other two: Ford is known most for his wife and falling down the steps of AF1, and Carter is... well... Yeah.
Frostbitten
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I'm not necessarily against UBCs, so I'd say:
1. Yes
2. See #1
3. See #1
4. See #1
5. Considering I'm not in charge of UBCs, I have to say No
6. I'm not necessarily opposed to registration, so to me, it doesn't bother me either way
7. Some will...criminals do stupid things all the time.
8. Impossible to answer as it calls for the accurate prediction of the actions of individuals and how they would have reacted to something that doesn't exist.
9. There is no call for mental health records or diagnosis to be put on a UBC database, just a simple yes/no (approved/disapproved)
10. Someone with the proper credentials to make the determination.
yukon254
Well-known member
Frostbitten, I respect your right to your opinion, I would just ask you to do some research on Canadas laws...look into what registration actually costs. Then have a look at what it has and hasnt done....It is very clear that it has done nothing to stop criminals from acquiring weapons. Like Ive said before our FACs are essentially a UBC.....they did nothing to stop criminals from acquiring weapons when we had a gun registration program.....they are a joke now.....
I would ask you to seriously consider the costs these programs will have on US taxpayers.....if nothing else think about that. Dont buy into the nonsense that it wont cost.....(remember Obamacare, wasnt supposed to raise taxes either....we now know it will; a LOT)
The US is in deep financial doo-doo right now....just last week the third largest city in CA went broke.....it now looks like Detroit might be next.......you simply dont have the money to waste on programs that will do nothing to stop crime........A serious look at doctor prescribed happy pills would be a good place to start.
I would ask you to seriously consider the costs these programs will have on US taxpayers.....if nothing else think about that. Dont buy into the nonsense that it wont cost.....(remember Obamacare, wasnt supposed to raise taxes either....we now know it will; a LOT)
The US is in deep financial doo-doo right now....just last week the third largest city in CA went broke.....it now looks like Detroit might be next.......you simply dont have the money to waste on programs that will do nothing to stop crime........A serious look at doctor prescribed happy pills would be a good place to start.
Frostbitten
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I appreciate the response and info.
