Leading edge slats

[algonquin]

Has anybody flown the Backcountry Cub slats ? They advertise them for $4000.00 and say they will bolt on any cub wing. I'm building a PA-12 and need to rebuild the wings, add flaps and move the ailerons so I'm wondering if this might be something to include. The add said the stall speed is reduced by 30-50%, just wondering how close that would bring you to losing the tail . I guess the prop wash would give you quite a bit more control . I'd like to hear from the experienced cub guys, thanks.

 

[avidflyer]

I am pretty certain that if you could spend 4 grand and get the stall to around 20 or less, every cub pilot would have put slats on instead of VGs. Take a look at Valdez... the straight cub wing kicked the crap out of $$$$ cubs and other planes.

I would certainly love it if 4k would really do what was claimed, but I personally don't think it does.

 

[algonquin]

I hear you on this, there are lots threads on this topic on supercub.org. I was hoping to open some interesting comments on this but guess not. From what I've read is that the slats make the plane more stable when slow and there are quite a few views on the real stall speed. Changeing the wing changes everything , tail thrust line effect on and on, but slats seem to make the plane more stable when really slow what ever that may be. That's why I was asking for anyone that has flown a slatted cub. Cool stuff to read about anyway. As winter sets in the more time to play with new ideas.

 

[TBLOOMA]

I like the concept, but what's the reality?

 

[pipercub]

They are very heavy....you say you are rebuilding 12 wings and sounds like you are also extending the wings. This also adds weight....watch out for the 1300 lb empty wt cub or super cruiser....next thing you'll be putting a 180hp engine on to get the pig off the ground. (Adding more wt.) it never ends once you start down that road. The light 12 or 18 is so much more enjoyable to fly. By all means put the flaps on, but think hard about adding more weight beyond that....

 

[Mr. Pid]

Off the top of my head I have 5 friends who fly slatted wing Cubs. All like them. they rave about how slow they can fly and the postage stamp spots they can land in. They all have 200+ motors and a couple have nitrous on top of that. I've considered buying a Back Country kit with slats but I changed my mind. Cubs are slow enough for my needs. A stock-wing Cub can do everything I want to do. A stock-wingCub is a handful enough in gusty winds and flying even slower isn't something I want when the wind is bad and I need to get on the ground. Slats bounce around in the breeze when parked. Some guys make locking pins to fix them for parking. For my own needs I don't need to go slower and I don't prefer more moving parts. The best Cub drivers I know fly stock, round tip Cubs and can do things I can't do. That tells me the main limitation in my case is the pilot, not the wing.

If I was building an experimental PA-12, aside from the normal mods I'd alter the AOA to match a Supercub and I'd use Doug Keller's split flaps. That would make it do what's important to me. It would essentially be an improved wide body Supercub because the back seat can carry a person and a dog.

 

[Grizzly 2]

A relatively proficient Super Cub pilot can operate his moderately loaded airplane in and out of 200' feet. This with an airplane with NO modifications. I'm afraid I don't see the need for better performance than this. And if the pilot can't handle that 200' with a stock Cub, I'm not sure wing modications will help much . . . . .

 

[Mr. Pid]

A couple of years ago The short landing record at Valdez was set at 30' by a slatted wing. More impressive was that it was a 4-place Producer. That pilot has an even better performing plane now. Some of the guys with slats really do use them. And as important as the equipment is, the pilot has to make it work. Personally I'd rather fly a Skywagon but seeing these guys operate slow is interesting.

 

[algonquin]

Thanks for the input, I've been reading a lot about the slats and think I'll stay away from them. The deck angle seems to be a problem on the 12's and from what I'm reading the slats increase it even more. As Mr Pids said the split flaps might be the best way to go.
I've talked to Ron Sullivan and may go with some of his STC as I'm still at the point of deciding to go experimental or certified. Piper cub make a point about the never ending road of mods and hp. I've been looking at the O-360 , but the money is a consideration as its lots more to do than a 320 for 20 hp more. This is the best part of the build, planning and not yet writing the checks. I start next week , I'm droping the frame and small parts for sand blasting and powder coating, then the wheels will be turning.
Mr Pid, I wonder where I'll end up between the Skywagon and the 12, I love my wagon. I guess this winter project keeps me from doing the Jimmy Buffet " shooting six holes in my freezer" cabin fever. Thanks again guys.

 

[pipercub]

I've been flying a new 12 for the last few years. The wings are rebuilt with Dakota ribs, stock tips, flaps.
The Fuselage is a new Univair with double sea plane doors. 150 hp. With a 41 Borer and 31" bushwheels.
3000 Aero skiis. 1140 empty on skiis... I park it at the house strip which is 800' at 1900' elevation. This 12 will do most anything my 160hp. PA18 will
do..:the 18 is lighter with 10 more hp. You can get off around 100' shorter hauling a load with the 18. Some of that may be due to the fact I've been flying that 18 for over 20 years. Both will land very slow and short. You will be happy with a light 12... They are a sweet flying plane....keep it light... There is a disease down around the Anchorage/Wasilla area. You catch this disease and next thing you know you are modifying everything on the plane...Stol wings, 180+hp engines with ugly cowlings...square tail feathers because the nose is so heavy. It is commonly called the more money than sense or keeping up with your neighbor disease....

 

[Troy Hamon]

There are an infinite number of mods you can put on an airplane. But, in my somewhat limited experience, you can't really benefit from any of them until you put the most important mod to use...gas...

When you have 500 hours in an airplane and can make it land exactly where you want every time and in exactly the distance you expected, and can call your takeoff roll to within 50 feet on every departure, then you have reached a point where you can make use of whatever mods you decide you want. If you fly less than 50 hours a year and have only a couple hundred hours in the airframe you are obsessing over...then the mods you have done might be good, but you won't be the person who can really use them to their capability anyway.

Again...just my opinion.

 

[AK-HUNT]

What Troy said: Avgas and time in your aircraft are best money spent. Worth a repeat or several…

on side note-Few months ago had opportunity to lift a slotted wing and stock wing (13 rib piper) side by side stripped down just sitting on sawhorses. I did not weigh them via scale but felt weight is easily 50-75% increase. Maybe no big deal to EXP?……

FWIW

 

[algonquin]

Well, I ended up buying a bunch of stc's and here's where it ended up. Airframe completely AK Mod'ed , the wings stock except supercub flaps. That way if and when I want to go to,the split flaps,I can go to standard mount and size and bolt them on. I think PiperCub said the key thing, keep it light and go with the O-320-160. I'm going to go with the Kydex interior, thinking of making a carbon fiber cowl and boot cowl area. The frame is at the powder coated and can't wait to see the end results. The engine mount is the 3" shorter and I'll post again when I get it more organized. Thanks for the I put guys.

 

[roamak]

Sounds like it will be a great flyer! Get er built and have fun!

 

[Mr. Pid]

I built a nice 160hp short mount PA-12. Great airplane. The only thing I wished for after it was finished was for more power. If I did it again I'd use the Univair 180hp short mount STC because it uses a modified Cub Cowl similar to the Crosswinds 160hp STC.