Law enforcement bashing

[theilercabin]

Last one

Last one

Ok.

First and foremost we are all avid outsdoormen and I believe we all want the best for everyone that shares our same passion for hunting, fishing, and the outdoors. Not one of us is perfect, or knows everything. Our time is certainly better spent discussing issues that will bring us joy, or a better overall knowledge, or perhaps meeting a new hunting buddy, yet we shouldn't always rule out the experiences that shape our lives whether good or bad, nor be denied the ablility to reasonably express them. We don't always have to agree and that's alright, we are foremost outsdoormens and that should be a better bond than our selective opinions divide.

 

[bwake]

My Last Thought

My Last Thought

As I said earlier, if there is an issue that arises from a field encounter with the "Law", "Locals', or just "Joe Six-Pack" that seems unfair, unethical, or discriminatory, then these forums should be a venue to at least inquire as to what went wrong or how could the plantiff have mitigated the event in the first place (esp. for out of staters, novices, etc). After all, isn't that the real common thread of these forums-to pass on knowledge, whether outdoor skills, hunting technique, or what to be aware of when hunting in an area that seems to bring higher scrutiny for any perceived offense?

I know the party line, generally the cops are good, knowledge of the regulations are incumbent on the participant, etc. and I have no problem with that. But if I know of a marginal situation, such as the Anchorage police issuing tickets for 58 MPH radar speeding during the morning commute on Minnesota Drive (which I know get thrown out regularly) then what's the problem with advising others of a potential bureaucratic snafu? I'd like to think we all abide by the law to the best of our abilities but like any government edict there are always going to be shades of gray. And that is the value of posts such as Jimmy urbans. This isn't about slander for Pete's sake; it's about reporting the truth as one sees it and deals with it! I can assure you that the forum won't be taken down for allowing such posts, for if we can view websites discussing everything from A-Bomb making to Porno, to AlQueda, this legal paranoia by the webmaster(s) seems truly misplaced.

As others have said, freedom of speech is inherent in this country and none of these posts would result in a libel indictment of the Host(s) per the law as written. If you do get served, please contact me and I'll be the first to donate to your defense fund and representation. This forum is doing a great job and I can only give kudos to the (often thankless) effort put in by you folks-which are the same feelings I have about 90% of the F&G / Troopers out there.

However, remember, when a discussion is only between people that agree, it ceases to be a discussion.

Cheers

 

[theilercabin]

Forum

Forum

I too just want to add that I think this forum is great. Already meeting some cool folks and hope to meet lots of others. This forum has great participation and it shouldn't be stiffled by selective judgements and good guy badges. I am glad to see that there is so many active people posting and replying with useful knowledge and information.

 

[RainGull]

"If I have learned one life season it would be there are two sides to every story. When we read a majority of these negative stories on this forum we do not get the oportunity to read both sides."

That's an ironic statement! The same opportunity exists for either side, or did exist before it was deleted!

I would much prefer that if any post puts the site in legal jeopardy, edit the post, don't delete the post and certainly not the whole thread just because you don't aggree with it.

But then as Michael Chertoff said, the net is a terror breeding ground and I guess the fact that we're even talking about guns let alone guns and troopers in the same sentence puts us at risk of being resident enemy combatants. Maybe you do have a good legal logic after all.

I agree too much political correctness and censorship. Why dont we all put on aprons and prance around the kitchen? Oh yeah, apparently none of us can stand any heat.

 

[Snyd]

Freedom demands responsibility. That includes freedom of speech. Too many people throw responsibility out the windo and let anything fly. When confronted about it hide behind "freedom of speech" or whatever. I see one of the biggest problems in America not being censorship but irresponsible people who will NOT take respsonsiblity for thier own actions or words. When called on it it's always somebody elses fault along with the "I can do what ever I want it's a free country" attitude. The truth is that the reason we have the freedoms we do is because we CANNOT do or say whatever we want. That's called anarchy. Is that what we really want?

 

[Kurt S]

Raingull,

I tend to agree with watergremlin, there are two sides to every story and I doubt you will get both here.
You also have to take into consideration, the old adage, one mans junk is another mans treasure. In other words, in your eyes an experience may taken as one thing, I may not see it in the same light. What should we expect to gain by debating a one sided story here? Seriously, could we all decide that F&G officer Bubba is a jerk and out of line? Then what? Maybe a lynching party? (kidding, I don’t think your advocating that).

When someone posts a question such as "has anyone run into so and so in xxxxx, and what was your experience, good or bad, that's a fishing trip. For what purpose we have no idea and what would it matter if we responded either way? Is that response going to be used for anything? Is it ammo for someone’s fight? I see no real purpose on this forum for mini trials. There are avenues available to pursue complaints and I have found them to be fairly effective. If Bubba is out there causing problems and is out of line, those on the receiving end can file a complaint and follow up on what action was taken.

Personally, I have seen more ugly on the part of the hunter than I have seen on the enforcement side. At least with enforcement I have actions I can take, on the joe hunter, nothing legal.

Kurt

 

[Mort]

Haul Road Trooper Encounter

Haul Road Trooper Encounter

While bou hunting up on the haul road this year, I was heading out for a morning constitutional when I saw a trooper drive up. I walked right back to camp expecting he'd want to check licenses and our meat bags/tags. We greeted him cheerfully, chatted about bou sightings, and treated him with the respect and basic human dignity. I suspect that's the reason he didn't even check us. He was just a little lonely and wanted to chat. It costs little to treat people with respect and dignity, and that is frequently returned in kind.

 

[theilercabin]

Golden Rule

Golden Rule

Do unto others. Quite simple and yet so easily lost in translation.

 

[Webmaster]

The deleted thread

The deleted thread

I deleted this thread because it started off on a racial tangent, followed fairly quickly by a case of what I felt was character assassination. I generally agree with the comment above about editing out objectionable material rather than deleting threads. That is normally what we do. I did actually consider that option in this case, but finally killed the whole thread because the opening post started the problem. A person’s race or size should be immaterial to discussions here.

It is interesting how we see things. To those who have had bad experiences with law enforcement, those encounters are understandably large in one’s memory. I was heartened to see an affirmation even by those with bad experiences that those encounters are not representative of the true nature of Alaska law enforcement.

I appreciate the honest, direct discussion here about my decision to delete. However, as was also pointed out above, this forum is ultimately my responsibility. At the end of the day, I have to do what I believe to be right so I can continue to look at myself in the mirror.

David

 

[theilercabin]

Goreous Day

Goreous Day

Nothing wrong with a little lively discussion. I didn't see any of the racial indications, that I would agree with. Race should never be an issue, only the content of character. Thanks for all your time having to upkeep this forum. I know it's not easy. This forum is definately one of the better ones I've come across.

 

[GreginAlaska]

"...

When someone posts a question such as "has anyone run into so and so in xxxxx, and what was your experience, good or bad, that's a fishing trip. For what purpose we have no idea and what would it matter if we responded either way? ..."

Ya it would be a fishing trip, but it could be useful if used right. Let's say a person is abusing the authority entrusted to them, what would be more likely to cure the problem, a single complaint or 50? There are people that would decide to not say anything about the abuse if they think they would have to go it alone.

And that said, it's Davids website, he can do whatever he wants with it.

 

[Samson1]

Reply to Jimmy Urban

Reply to Jimmy Urban

This is simply a reply to Jimmy Urban's run-ins with Troopers, and nothing close to getting into any sort of bantering back and forth. I know of the situation Jimmy Urban was talking about in Valdez, and just to set the records straight, the Trooper did not go to school with these guys, and did not know them well. The "good old boy system may be alive in other areas, but not in Valdez". Even though you think a citation was warranted on the spot, the Trooper treated the parties fairly, and gave them a chance to make a mistake right. There were citations issued, but I know the Trooper makes a habit of not making someone else's business, everyone else's. It is admirable to people to pass information along to Law Enforcement, and I know they appreciate it. There are things out there that don't sit well with the ethical, and moral, hunter, and I think that information should be passed along. So, the information you passed along was appreciated, but knowing the facts, before going onto a public forum, is simply not fair to all parties. I know the Trooper, and believe me, he does not operate on the "good old boy system".

 

[Kurt S]

Ya it would be a fishing trip, but it could be useful if used right. Let's say a person is abusing the authority entrusted to them, what would be more likely to cure the problem, a single complaint or 50? There are people that would decide to not say anything about the abuse if they think they would have to go it alone.

And that said, it's Davids website, he can do whatever he wants with it.

Judging from the responses here, they would either let em have it with both barrels, give em a free cup of Joe, report it to the superiors, or threaten to take them to the Alaska Outdoor Forum. AH, there's the answer, give them the choice! I'll call Moose and see if I can get some "take your pick cards printed up.

Kurt

 

[GreginAlaska]

Judging from the responses here, they would either let em have it with both barrels, give em a free cup of Joe, report it to the superiors, or threaten to take them to the Alaska Outdoor Forum. AH, there's the answer, give them the choice! I'll call Moose and see if I can get some "take your pick cards printed up.

Kurt

Well OK Then. hmmmmmm

 

[Mark]

.....We greeted him cheerfully, chatted about bou sightings, and treated him with the respect and basic human dignity. I suspect that's the reason he didn't even check us. He was just a little lonely and wanted to chat. It costs little to treat people with respect and dignity, and that is frequently returned in kind.

A cup of morning coffee helps. Like a smile. A good word. Sharing breakfast.

Of course, if you're not breaking the law, that helps immensely, too.

 

[Vance in AK]

I'll throw in my $.02 here for what it's worth.
I've spent most of my 46 years with the outdoors being my main recreation, primarily hunting, trapping, & fishing. That's includes three states, Alaska, Montana, & Oregon. Almost 20 of those years have been here in AK.
In all that time I have never been treated poorly, or even rudely by a LEO in any situation. Even a few where I deserved it in my younger days. I have had friends that had problems with the LEos in the same communities, but I knew these friends well enough to know they had problems with anyone in a position of authority, & had no respect for anyone who disagreed with them or didn't see things their way.
Are there bad LEOs out there? You bet there are, but it's a VERY small percentage!!!!
Each one has my respect until they prove to ME (or someone who's judgement I respect) they don't deserve it.
Thanks for the job you do LEOs!

 

[jeff p]

Good

Good

This is simply a reply to Jimmy Urban's run-ins with Troopers, and nothing close to getting into any sort of bantering back and forth. I know of the situation Jimmy Urban was talking about in Valdez, and just to set the records straight, the Trooper did not go to school with these guys, and did not know them well. The "good old boy system may be alive in other areas, but not in Valdez". Even though you think a citation was warranted on the spot, the Trooper treated the parties fairly, and gave them a chance to make a mistake right. There were citations issued, but I know the Trooper makes a habit of not making someone else's business, everyone else's. It is admirable to people to pass information along to Law Enforcement, and I know they appreciate it. There are things out there that don't sit well with the ethical, and moral, hunter, and I think that information should be passed along. So, the information you passed along was appreciated, but knowing the facts, before going onto a public forum, is simply not fair to all parties. I know the Trooper, and believe me, he does not operate on the "good old boy system".

to see you contibuting here it sounds close to the horses mouth. Nice to see a chance to make it right after all thats what is being strived for not wasting the animal. hats off to ya

 

[AlaskaCub]

Once again we are only getting one side of the story, thats generally what happens when the stories start.

 

[Water_Gremlin]

That's an ironic statement! The same opportunity exists for either side, or did exist before it was deleted!

Ok, next time I see another LE bashing thread of post we will wait for you, Raingull, to inform the LEO himself so he can add his two cents before the thread is deleted. This way we can hear both sides of the story and maybe one of these threads can stay open.

Its quite simple. Not everyone knows of this forum and I am fairly confident LEO officials do not check this site after each encounter to relentlessly search for bashing threads.

This subject at hand almost reminds me of my days of working with the general public. Boy, am I glad those days are behind me. I lost count of the rediculous stories I heard from customers after weeks of selling computers.

 

[TradBow]

trooper bashing

trooper bashing

One of the posts that were edited was mine. I stay away from racial anything however I am not hesitant to give names. The thread wasn't meant to bash <any particular trooper>. I posted for a couple of reasons. First I've specifically delt with the now retired trooper bedingfield regard shooting furbears in the corridor and managed to get a straight answer from the very trooper who would have checked/fined me at the time being. I also know if anyone has an issue with this very situation contact Curt and he'll point you straight.

What really trips my trigger is these people are PUBLIC SERVANTS! I've also had some bad to worse scenario's with a couple of badge holders and also have one of my closests friends as a badge holder. We talk about these situations (and others) on a regular basis. Know let me be first to admit, I'd give my left nut to be a brown shirt. They are human and they do make mistakes. Up until my reply to the trapping thread NO trooper had bothered to bat an eye to apologize. It was nice to actually be civil with another human being after a grossly misunderstanding by the OWNER of this site and the trooper I had mentioned.

I will say however these peoples names shouldn't be hidden! If you have a problem with trooper and it's blatent and someone else in a position to fall into a similar problem (Which I'm surpised to that would happen twice to begin with) you'd think someone would speak up, at least in private?

I agree this censorship issue's have gone a little far. I also understand there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Disrespecting anyone shouldn't be allowed. However don't be so quick to judge what you read. Not all of us are the next Don Thomas's of writers and have the best way with words!