Law enforcement bashing

[Webmaster]

I just edited a thread that started some weeks ago, and deleted another. I am sitting here really weary of the law enforcement bashing that sometimes goes on here. Here is a corps of men and women dedicated to protecting Alaskans and our fish & wildlife resources, and we give them this?

The reality for me is that I have known many Alaska state troopers, city policemen, and fish & wildlife officers over 30+ years, and with VERY few exceptions, they have been men and women I have been proud to know.

I understand they make mistakes. I also understand that there might be a few officers in Alaska unworthy of the badge they wear. That is true of every profession. We're all just ordinary mortals here.

If you've got a beef with the way Troopers interpreted the laws and regulations as it related to you, say so, but leave the officer's name and race out of it. If the individual officer did a poor job, make an appointment to see his supervisor and explain the situation. If it's a system problem, talk about it here, and work to change the way the system works.

Let's instead give honor to the vast majority of Alaska's law enforcement officers who put their lives on the line every day for you and me and the resources we love.

David

 

[Daveinthebush]

Sounds Great

Sounds Great

Sounds like a very good idea David. You just never know when you just might need an officer or somone in the military to assist. During the recent flood in Valdez, about 20 Coast Guardsmen and women, were out near my place filling sandbags. None of the lived there, they just came to help.

 

[twodux]

Thank You

Thank You

Thanks David. After your decision not to allow police blotter stuff to be posted here because it's inflamatory and the accused can't defend themselves here, I was surprised to see the thread you just deleted going on for some time without you doing something about it. It flamed law enforcement, natives, and villagers in general and one of your moderators even joined in. It's not the first time stuff like that has gone on here. Glad to see you take control.

Rick

 

[Alaska Gray]

Lets not hang these fine man and woman until you have walked in there shoes. It takes special person to work in Law enforcement. I applaud this men and woman who choose to protect and serve us.

 

[bushrat]

You beat me to it

You beat me to it

David, I was just composing a note about this. Thank you for bringing it up.

I'd like to relate a story. Some years ago, my oldest daughter and I were hooking up the dog teams one March morning in prep for heading downriver to the Yukon to meet up with some locals and villagers for a spring get-together. Before we had all the dogs hooked up, a super cub flew over with Trooper insignia, then another, and yet another. Three cubs! They landed, and my daughter and I went out to greet them. I shook their hands and invited them in the cabin for a cup of coffee or tea. We had a good visit, and I was happy they stopped in, and that I got to meet some new ABWE guys I hadn't met before.

They took off, and so did we, and two days later we arrived at the Yukon where the first words out of the mouths of those there were, "Did those &%$#@! Troopers stop in and check your trapline and license!?"

It turned out the Troopers had stopped in there, and elsewhere, and checked licenses, but no one else was respectful or nice to them. When the guys heard the I invited the Troopers into our cabin, they were unbelievably angry, and I took a lot of flak over it. "What kind of example is that! Are you nuts, inviting law enforcement into your home!"

The attitudes ABWE and other troopers often deal with among hunters (and trappers) is something I feel very poorly about. And I don't really understand it. If we are doing everything legal, I don't see what there is to be afraid of. We should be jumping for joy that ABWE troopers are out there doing their jobs. Always bad apples in every barrel, no question there, but what is so hard about being respectful and treating another human as you'd like to be treated if you were wearing his or her uniform? I too know a few ABWE guys, and I respect them and applaud what they do for all hunters. We should be helping them find the bad guys, not making them out to be the bad guys. Imagine what it's like to drop in on a hunting party where everyone is armed to the teeth, and you get nothing but a confrontational greeting? Is it any wonder some troopers may act in ways we don't understand? Based on the wildlife enforcement officers I know, the majority of in-the-field visits are somewhat confrontational from the get-go, yet they don't have to be.
Let's work on curing that!

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pushing for more ABWE troopers, a return of brown shirts, and I fully support their mission. If they drop in on me, fine. I'll shake their hand if they'll let me, invite them up to camp for a cup of Joe, be as friendly as I can, and then thank them for dropping in. If more would do the same, their jobs would be much easier. And yeah, these are often the guys who come to save your butt when bad <stuff> happens in the field, or to coordinate rescues, call out choppers, etc.

Mark Richards

 

[4whlr]

troopers etc.

troopers etc.

Cops are just like most other people. Treat them with respect and they'll usually do the same. One thing that you have to remember, they deal with scum on a daily basis, and therefor can be a little jaded on there outlook of another human being. Wouldn't you? If you act like a jackass their going to treat you like a jackass...

 

[Maineguide]

I have found that the people who bash the wardens the most are the ones who usually have been in trouble with the warden service. I have had many warden friends over the years including one I consider to be one of my best friends and we have made trips to Alaska together twice now.

They are hard working people just like the rest of us and many times have to face the worst that there is. I am sure they appreciate a friendly face and a nice word just like everyone else. So when they ask to see your license or check your catch, talk to them nice, ask them if they would like a cup of coffee or tea. You never know, you might have a new friend. I have had warden friends share some really good information on game and fishing spots over the years.

 

[fullkurl]

The law enforcement "critique meter" here has been pegged at 9.5 for some time.

Many of us are also weary of it, David.
Its nice to see this thread prompting positive feedback of our uniformed guys and gals. Surely its the way most think.

Frank

 

[Snyd]

I am always happy to see a law enforcement officer of any type where ever I am. I like to know FPD is patrolling my neighborhood, I like to know AST is on the highway when I am traveling and I like to know that the the "former" brown shirts (AST) are in the field. You never know when you might need one of these officers. Thanks David. I agree wholeheartedly.

Bushrat, I bet it's nice to know those guys are around in case something happens and you need them huh?

 

[AlaskaCub]

For me personally I have been confronted by F&G officers in many states over the years while hunting and or fishing. I personally have never had one act inappropriately to me. I feel the same way as many, they have a job to do and its not always a favorable one. I always make sure that I dot my i's and cross my t's so to speak as far as following rules and staying within the laws so I am not intimidated by seeing them. A couple years ago I ran up the Gulkana with my son and my father-in-law to catch some kings. I beached the boat at the forks and proceeded to tie the boat up, when a man approached me and said that he was an Alaska State Trooper, he was not on duty , but that he noticed my son wasn't wearing his life jacket. He just wanted to tell me that it was the law that he wear one. This could have been perceived many ways, but the truth is that my boy always wears one when we are running on the rivers, any rivers. I just had spaced it that he was sitting on it and not wearing it in my excitement to get up river and start fishing. I thanked him and he walked away. Some people might say that he was being a $%$^ or something else, but in truth had he been on duty and cited me I would have been okay with it. He was doing right by me and I had been irresponsible for forgetting to make sure Hunter had his PFD on. They arent always appreciated for what they do, but i guarantee you that should any of us ever need one, we'll welcome them with open arms. They got a job to do just like the rest of us, and many do it well. Most guys I know that talk bad about brown shirts do so because they got lots to hide if you know what I mean.

 

[Jimmy Urban]

It goes both ways.

Once upon a time while I was working an issue with the Assistant Attorney General, a trooper (with the help of a forum poster) made that issue known on these forums. I was publicly and privately admonished by the trooper. At one point I started to receive phone calls and messages on my machine by "other" troopers threatening to put me in jail. It was so extreme that it caused added stress to me and my family, it made me question my morality and also cost me several hundred unnecessarily spent dollars. Eventually the AAG made a final decision that favored me (and people like me). To this day, I never received an apology from the trooper, nor did I see him announce his lapse in judgement here. IMO, the trooper really pushed the envelope for what this forum is intended. I havn't said anything until now about this, but this was a perfect example of a trooper bashing another poster. Lesson learned on this one folks...watch what you publish on these forums especially if you aren't incognito.

Two more experiences with AK Troopers...

One year while baiting for bear, I had my truck illegally searched by troopers. Once I returned home, I placed a call to their boss. I was informed by him the troopers were in the wrong and received an apology. The golden nugget here, it is okay for "young" troopers to make mistakes no matter how clear cut the law.

Just this past May while doing a halibut charter out of Valdez I witnessed four or five bubbas (Sorry if it seems I might be profiling, but I simply can't use the word hunter here.) putter into port in their boat rental with two black bear. One bear was field dressed and brought in whole, the other was a skin with the skull intact. After they unloaded the boat, I approached one of the bubbas and congratulated him on their success. I quickly then asked him one simple question, "Where is the meat to the second bear?" Without even skipping a beat the guy told me it was on top of a mountain and that it was too rugged to pack out. Oooohhh...not good.

I hate being a whistle blower, but thinking this guy was an out of stater that just wasn't in the know, I went to the owner of the boat rental company and told him what was up. In my eyes, this should have been obvious to the owner since he was aware of their kills and watched them bring them up the dock. I told him it would be wise for him to tell his clients to turn themselves in and that I was going to give him a few minutes to take care of it before I was going to start dialing. He didn't act, so I did.

The trooper showed up and after his investigation with the culprits, he side barred with me and thanked me for the phone call. As it turns out the trooper went to school with at least one of these guys and he knew of him pretty well. One of them had been in trouble with the law and evidently was the town menace. He told me he was allowing them the opportunity to retrieve the meat and that he would call me within the week to inform me of the outcome. Now maybe it is me, but I think a citation at that very moment would have been the right thing. I'm not exactly sure of the outcome, the trooper never called me, but my perception is this...The good ol boy club is alive and well in small town Alaska. Care to guess what my lessons learned here were?

In closing, I tried very hard not to make this come off as a bashing. I for one respect most troopers and am very thankful for their presence here...they have in my mind one of the most important jobs in this country. My best friend is a trooper! However, I have had three experiences with AK troopers...and all three were negative. I too am aware though that for every one of my negative dealings with troopers there are thousands of positive experiences.

 

[theilercabin]

Censorship

Censorship

I am a bit sad to see this sort of censorship. We are all grown men that can express their opinions. I am in awe that someone would want to censor a thread where someone is expressing their opinons, whether they agree with them or not. This seems to be a reocurring theme now a days in America.

This is Alaska, and censorship of this kind is very UnAlaskan. Seems more and more of this menality is creeping up here.


My wife is a local attorney here in Kenai and we see things from a completely different side. Not every trooper or Fish and Game agent is a stand up character. I've seen lots of cases of downright lying and harrassment. For some reason the general public opinion is that officers are all great hero types that are just doing their jobs and would never lie or deceive. Are there any crictial, objective thinkers out there anymore?
To be fair, I would say the greater majority are upstanding, good people that have their heart in the right place. That said, there are those out there that are petty, little people that are selfish and of poor character.


I've never had one problem with an officer and I am always respectful of anyone on any level, but I've always seen with my own eyes up in Kotz how things are done.

I could go on and on, maybe in another post. I am just in disbelief and very sad that this sort of censorship goes on.
As a moderator of a forum you have the obligation to be OBJECTIVE!

 

[AlaskaCub]

I agree Marc that I have heard shady stories involving troopers but I have never experienced it myself so I can only share my experience. Like with anything else in this world, troopers are no different its the 10% rule.

 

[fishnhuntr]

cops.

cops.

I'm going to have to agree with Jimmy Urban, I've had very few encounters with troopers and haven't met one yet that deserved the respect their occupation demands. F & G, met many and no problems. Simple fact is, if I have a problem and it comes down to calling them or dealing with it, I'll be taking care of it myself, if you know what I mean.

 

[fullkurl]

flip the coin...

flip the coin...

Marc,
Take a second and flip the scenario. If your wife (the lawyer) posted a monthly legal newsletter that found its way into the public arena you better believe she'd be responsible and maybe even cautious about who and what was put in that newsletter. If a clerk tucked in a unfounded personal comment about another your wife would be livid. Agreed? After all, libel could be a serious consideration.
Libel defined. Libel is a false and unprivileged publication by writing, printing, picture, effigy, or other fixed representation to the eye which exposes any person to hatred, contempt, ridicule, or obloquy or which causes him to be shunned or avoided or which has a tendency to injure him in his occupation.
Some get bent about freedom of speech, but how about those who are being talked about?! People have rights. Surely your spouse would agree legally.

This may be a public use forum, but realistically its privately owned. The "subjective" moderator you referenced owns this site and really has the final decision as to what flies and what does not.

Censorship? Consider that you just posted a criticism of the site owner's lack of objectivity and yet there it is in your post, I just read it.

Frank

 

[Flintlock]

Cops

Cops

I am in agreement with theilercabin. Scensorship on the web has gotten out of control.

Troopers and other law enforcement personnel, are agents of government. Plain and simple. They write tickets which produce revenue for government. Improprieties by police, military, and everyone else in public service should be dealt with the same way as we get dealt.

I have personally known many police officers and wanted to be one myself at one time. Most of them have my utmost respect and mean well.
However, they, like any of us, or anyone else, shouldn't be held to some "higher" standard of the citizenry. Their vote doesn't mean anymore than mine and shouldn't. They should not be exempt from the laws and rules of the road, or any other for that matter.

I understand there are bad apples in every batch in the nation. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to call them out on it when it does happen. They do happen to work for me and you.. I don't understand why the "bashing" word has to come out when someone doesn't agree with something.

Funny thing is, this is coming from a guy that has never been arrested, never been in trouble, and supports my community. Go figure. How bout a little freedom in America!!

 

[theilercabin]

You just have to treat everyone with kids gloves now a days, another sad aspect of what's happening in America. No one can show a little passion and speak their mind. As for your references to libel, that's a bit of a stretch, haha, do you know how many times I've heard some layman say something like that. If something is true it's true. I don't wish to be negative on this topic anymore, that's certainly not why I am here.

Objective is objective. My response was subject to the posting, I don't have the same responsibilty as a moderator with the power to delete and edit posts as he or she wishes. What's next? The world wasn't meant to fit into one tight perception, and all should have equal weight.

 

[Water_Gremlin]

If I have learned one life season it would be there are two sides to every story. When we read a majority of these negative stories on this forum we do not get the oportunity to read both sides. Theres something to be said about weighing each persons input and making your own conclusion. People are too quick to hang high and dry without knowing the entire story. I do not blaim David for editing and deleting selected posts and threads that have boiled over. These are one sided arguments and the members do not get a chance sift through both sides. Unfair, don't you suppose?

The whole "freedom of speech" argument is being taken a few notchs too far. Frank said it best.

This may be a public use forum, but realistically its privately owned. The "subjective" moderator you referenced owns this site and really has the final decision as to what flies and what does not.

Alaskacub, I may be mistaken, but I am fairly confident the law stats a life jacket does not have to be worn on the river but there has to be one PFd per person packed in the boat.

 

[AK DUCKMAN]

I have seen both faces of the law and have to say I have seen more good than bad by a long shot. And when I have gotten the bad side I have allways gone to the top. Weather anything was done diden't matter. It gave me peace of mind knowing I did something about the wrong.
You have no right to complain if you don't do something about it first.

 

[AlaskaCub]

Water Gremlin,
My son is 9 years old, by law he must have his on. For adults they just have to be in the boat.