Indictement of AK Big Game Guides/Lodge
- Thread starter deadfish
- Start date
Steve
Member
Your source is?
Your source is?
Deadfish,
I have no connection whatsoever with either the people or place that you have named in your post, and I have no reason whatsoever to doubt what you say...
However, given the amount of damage a statement like you've provided can cause, and since you've not quoted an information source, before I delete this thread I'd like to ask "what is your source?".
Steve
Your source is?
Deadfish,
I have no connection whatsoever with either the people or place that you have named in your post, and I have no reason whatsoever to doubt what you say...
However, given the amount of damage a statement like you've provided can cause, and since you've not quoted an information source, before I delete this thread I'd like to ask "what is your source?".
Steve
Bill S.
Well-known member
You would think the troopers would be involved since most game violations are state jurisdictions. A search of the trooper reports back to 5 July does not show anything concerning these names or the Lodge name. It may be unfounded.
Byron_Lamb
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slippery slope......
slippery slope......
Gentlemen.......This a very slippery slope you're going down.
I realize this was posted in the form of a "question", but the under-lying message is LOUD & CLEAR.
This is no different than when Mr. Strahan posted a similar message about me, he did it in the form of a "question", very slippery. The message was recieved loud & clear and the damage was done. Very slippery. Its hard to respect someone who choses this approach. Coyote mentality.
I would urge everyone to show some common courtesy and respect. Don't jump to conclusion and keep an open mind. Sometimes the FACTS can be a lot different than the allegations.
For what its worth, try to imagine if someday you found yourself in a comprising position. Having lots of people talking about you, talking about things they really don't know anything about. In your gut you'd like to "set the record straight", however for the time being you've been instructed to NOT talk about the allegations. Try to imagine how you'd feel and then act accordingly in this situation, show some respect. Nothing worse than the "wolf pack" mentality.
good hunting...>Byron Lamb
slippery slope......
Gentlemen.......This a very slippery slope you're going down.
I realize this was posted in the form of a "question", but the under-lying message is LOUD & CLEAR.
This is no different than when Mr. Strahan posted a similar message about me, he did it in the form of a "question", very slippery. The message was recieved loud & clear and the damage was done. Very slippery. Its hard to respect someone who choses this approach. Coyote mentality.
I would urge everyone to show some common courtesy and respect. Don't jump to conclusion and keep an open mind. Sometimes the FACTS can be a lot different than the allegations.
For what its worth, try to imagine if someday you found yourself in a comprising position. Having lots of people talking about you, talking about things they really don't know anything about. In your gut you'd like to "set the record straight", however for the time being you've been instructed to NOT talk about the allegations. Try to imagine how you'd feel and then act accordingly in this situation, show some respect. Nothing worse than the "wolf pack" mentality.
good hunting...>Byron Lamb
Kay9Cop
New member
No Gossip
No Gossip
For anyone interested, here is a link to the article deadfish was referencing:
http://search.adn.com/search-bin/se...rt=dwb_psd_publish_dt+desc&sf_dwb_target=veys
No gossip, just the facts as published in the Anchorage Daily News. And as Mr. Lamb pointed out, this may not be the whole truth. An indictment only means that probable cause exists, not that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
No Gossip
For anyone interested, here is a link to the article deadfish was referencing:
http://search.adn.com/search-bin/se...rt=dwb_psd_publish_dt+desc&sf_dwb_target=veys
No gossip, just the facts as published in the Anchorage Daily News. And as Mr. Lamb pointed out, this may not be the whole truth. An indictment only means that probable cause exists, not that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Magnum Man
New member
finger pointing
finger pointing
Although i know nothing of this story besides what i have read here today you shouldnt point fingers so harshly. it seams to me that these guys make a living by guiding and any public negativity could put their careers and their own and their families welfare at risk. They may or may not have intentionaly or non intentionaly broken the law. At least give them the benefit of the doubt until they are proven without doubt to have been negligent.
For example Im giving everyone who writes and reads on this forum the benifit of the doubt that they are smart enuogh not to beleive everything they read in the newspaper and also that they might be willing to hear both sides before taking a side.
Jeez people were alaskans lets hold ourselves to a higher standerd.
My 2 cents.
finger pointing
Although i know nothing of this story besides what i have read here today you shouldnt point fingers so harshly. it seams to me that these guys make a living by guiding and any public negativity could put their careers and their own and their families welfare at risk. They may or may not have intentionaly or non intentionaly broken the law. At least give them the benefit of the doubt until they are proven without doubt to have been negligent.
For example Im giving everyone who writes and reads on this forum the benifit of the doubt that they are smart enuogh not to beleive everything they read in the newspaper and also that they might be willing to hear both sides before taking a side.
Jeez people were alaskans lets hold ourselves to a higher standerd.
My 2 cents.
cold zero
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honest disclosure, not slander
honest disclosure, not slander
no one said that they were guilty.
if it is in the newspaper and has been substaniated that they were charged then why not mention it? maybe someone is about to book a hunt with them and would like to know this info' so that an informed decision can be made.
i have been thru this myself, knowledge is power.
honest disclosure, not slander
no one said that they were guilty.
if it is in the newspaper and has been substaniated that they were charged then why not mention it? maybe someone is about to book a hunt with them and would like to know this info' so that an informed decision can be made.
i have been thru this myself, knowledge is power.
fullkurl
New member
allegations...
allegations...
Cold Zero--you nailed a good point. I read NOTHING in deadfishes post to demean these guys, he only reported the latest news. I would want to know this if I was booking a hunt. period. Only ADN readers would see this, presumably.
These gentlemen are innocent until proven otherwise, but this is noteworthy to other hunters.
Byron certainly does have a point, however. News is one thing, piling on is another. I have seen others piled-on after news was posted...
allegations...
cold zero said:
Cold Zero--you nailed a good point. I read NOTHING in deadfishes post to demean these guys, he only reported the latest news. I would want to know this if I was booking a hunt. period. Only ADN readers would see this, presumably.
These gentlemen are innocent until proven otherwise, but this is noteworthy to other hunters.
Byron certainly does have a point, however. News is one thing, piling on is another. I have seen others piled-on after news was posted...
Milo
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Valid questions
Valid questions
Its certainly a valid question to find out if someone is under a felony indictment before you book a hunt with them. I'm all for the courts treating him innocent until proven guilty, but I'm not going to give a guy several thousand dollars up front for a hunt if he may be out of business or in prison by the time my hunt rolls around.
Its one thing to not slander the guy all over the internet or judge him before the courts do. Its another to give him a pile of money and become vested in his legal problems. Even he's completely innocent and the greatest person on the planet, it would be insane to invest my money when the outcome of the court case is uncertain. If he is convicted, then it becomes my problem. It may be unfair, but sorry, no thank you.
Hopefully the courts will judge all fairly.
Valid questions
Its certainly a valid question to find out if someone is under a felony indictment before you book a hunt with them. I'm all for the courts treating him innocent until proven guilty, but I'm not going to give a guy several thousand dollars up front for a hunt if he may be out of business or in prison by the time my hunt rolls around.
Its one thing to not slander the guy all over the internet or judge him before the courts do. Its another to give him a pile of money and become vested in his legal problems. Even he's completely innocent and the greatest person on the planet, it would be insane to invest my money when the outcome of the court case is uncertain. If he is convicted, then it becomes my problem. It may be unfair, but sorry, no thank you.
Hopefully the courts will judge all fairly.
cold zero
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full disclosure
full disclosure
if they are convicted. i would think that they would lose their license in the process. then were does that leave you? somehow , a refund is no longer the top priority.
p.s. i already went thru this in another state. the outfitter told me the charges were b.s. and i need not worry about it. shortly thereafter he pled guilty. i wish i had found out about the charges before sending the deposit, instead of after.
i don't think the mods here would allow anyone to slander someone on their pages....m.h.o.
full disclosure
if they are convicted. i would think that they would lose their license in the process. then were does that leave you? somehow , a refund is no longer the top priority.
p.s. i already went thru this in another state. the outfitter told me the charges were b.s. and i need not worry about it. shortly thereafter he pled guilty. i wish i had found out about the charges before sending the deposit, instead of after.
i don't think the mods here would allow anyone to slander someone on their pages....m.h.o.
cold zero
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steve;
not allowing deadfish to get the word out can cause a lot of damage also. try looking at this from all sides. many guys would not want to send a deposit to guys who are mired in legal problems that could lead to the end of their business.
deadfish did not pull this out of his rear end , he read it in the newspaper and it has been confirmed that these guys have been charged, so why cover it up? you wanted to know his source and it is a matter of public record.
not allowing deadfish to get the word out can cause a lot of damage also. try looking at this from all sides. many guys would not want to send a deposit to guys who are mired in legal problems that could lead to the end of their business.
deadfish did not pull this out of his rear end , he read it in the newspaper and it has been confirmed that these guys have been charged, so why cover it up? you wanted to know his source and it is a matter of public record.
Question
Question
I think if everyone looks back at the original post, Deadfish just asked a question. He acussed no one, made no statements and was just trying to find the answers to a rumor at the time.
If we can't ask questions, then we will never have any answers.
Question
I think if everyone looks back at the original post, Deadfish just asked a question. He acussed no one, made no statements and was just trying to find the answers to a rumor at the time.
If we can't ask questions, then we will never have any answers.
I think the concern is that it was phrased as a question when apparently the ADN article (didn't read it) was the source of the concern but not referenced. God knows the ADN is not a source I would bet my life on but once published the fact that the indictment exists is "public knowledge" and game to be discussed.
We have to remember also that when someone posts here - it isn't like looking them in the eye while they are talking.
Mike
We have to remember also that when someone posts here - it isn't like looking them in the eye while they are talking.
Mike
gusuk1
New member
thanks deadfish
thanks deadfish
Have to shake my head in ahh when reading repleys to deadfish question,slippery slope?this is an information road to hunting in the state of Alaska and much has been learned and exposed here.many unguided and guide folks have had the inside scope to how it is,and i am sure many have had better hunts from what has been said here.if there is questionable behavior cited towards a guide/outfitter and gets printed in the press i want to know and i am sure all the folks looking to come hunting would to.thanks for the info,and a word of wise for those looking to book a hunt watch out for those who are booking four years in advance
thanks deadfish
Have to shake my head in ahh when reading repleys to deadfish question,slippery slope?this is an information road to hunting in the state of Alaska and much has been learned and exposed here.many unguided and guide folks have had the inside scope to how it is,and i am sure many have had better hunts from what has been said here.if there is questionable behavior cited towards a guide/outfitter and gets printed in the press i want to know and i am sure all the folks looking to come hunting would to.thanks for the info,and a word of wise for those looking to book a hunt watch out for those who are booking four years in advance
Michael Strahan
webmaster
A reply to Byron
A reply to Byron
Byron,
Since you mentioned my name in connection with this, I'll respond. HERE's THE LINK to the post of mine that you mentioned; there's nothing personal in it at all; just an honest question about an article that appeared in the local paper. I don't see anything objectionable in it at all. In fact, I posted my agreement with the "innocent until proven guilty" direction that thread took.
On the other hand, in your very first post to me in this forum (12/04), you attacked me in print in such an egregious manner that the post had to be deleted. But someone copied it and posted it on another forum, where it may still hold the record for "most viewed thread", both in terms of viewers and participants in the public bashing that went on there. At that time, we had never met, had never talked, and I did not know anything about you. Your attack was completely unprovoked. Someone else I had never met wrote to me privately about it, but when I checked here it had already been deleted. I did read it elsewhere though, and still have a copy of it. The slope is indeed slippery, Byron.
I still don't know you, and I still believe a person is innocent until proven guilty. I hope that proves to be the case with regard to your current situation.
In a broader sense, a discussion of illegal and / or unethical activities by commercial operators in Alaska is a subject of high public interest, and I would expect it to come up anywhere you find men and women of integrity who gather to discuss the moral decline of our society.
Regards,
-Mike
A reply to Byron
Byron_Lamb said:
Byron,
Since you mentioned my name in connection with this, I'll respond. HERE's THE LINK to the post of mine that you mentioned; there's nothing personal in it at all; just an honest question about an article that appeared in the local paper. I don't see anything objectionable in it at all. In fact, I posted my agreement with the "innocent until proven guilty" direction that thread took.
On the other hand, in your very first post to me in this forum (12/04), you attacked me in print in such an egregious manner that the post had to be deleted. But someone copied it and posted it on another forum, where it may still hold the record for "most viewed thread", both in terms of viewers and participants in the public bashing that went on there. At that time, we had never met, had never talked, and I did not know anything about you. Your attack was completely unprovoked. Someone else I had never met wrote to me privately about it, but when I checked here it had already been deleted. I did read it elsewhere though, and still have a copy of it. The slope is indeed slippery, Byron.
I still don't know you, and I still believe a person is innocent until proven guilty. I hope that proves to be the case with regard to your current situation.
In a broader sense, a discussion of illegal and / or unethical activities by commercial operators in Alaska is a subject of high public interest, and I would expect it to come up anywhere you find men and women of integrity who gather to discuss the moral decline of our society.
Regards,
-Mike
martentrapper
New member
Michael Strahan said:
Oh gees, Mike!
