Guys I got a few boxes of hornadys 265grain 444marlin ammo but the problem is they wont fit in my win 94 444. when i try to load them thru the side the cartrige is to long to fit they are 2.570col. question can i just reseat the bullet a little deeper & recrimp the cartriges? when I reload for this I set the col at 2.550 & they seem to load thru the gun just fine? help thanks
hornady 444 265 col
- Thread starter jeff p
- Start date
444 o.a.l.
444 o.a.l.
Jeff, those loads probably have the case already crimped into a cannelure groove in the bullet, since they are being used in a tubular magazine rifle to prevent the bullet being pressed deeper into the case and causing potentially dangerous pressures. It might be possible to very carefully use your seating die to seat the bullet a little deeper into the case if there is any "room" left in the cannelure groove over the place where the bullets are already crimped in.
I am surprized that these cartridges won't even load in your Winchester, due to the slightly longer length, though there may be something about the Winchester loading mechanism I am unaware of. You might consider contacting Hornady regarding this. They are usually very helpful to their customers.
444 o.a.l.
Jeff, those loads probably have the case already crimped into a cannelure groove in the bullet, since they are being used in a tubular magazine rifle to prevent the bullet being pressed deeper into the case and causing potentially dangerous pressures. It might be possible to very carefully use your seating die to seat the bullet a little deeper into the case if there is any "room" left in the cannelure groove over the place where the bullets are already crimped in.
I am surprized that these cartridges won't even load in your Winchester, due to the slightly longer length, though there may be something about the Winchester loading mechanism I am unaware of. You might consider contacting Hornady regarding this. They are usually very helpful to their customers.
I checked
I checked
the col on some remington 240's I have here & they are 2.520 but my big prob is I am leaving next week for ak & the ones at the store close to me seem to all be longer a few yrs ago when the boxes where red they where shorter so I am kinda at a loss ? I am thinking reseat theses or load some empty cases i have ? jeff
I checked
the col on some remington 240's I have here & they are 2.520 but my big prob is I am leaving next week for ak & the ones at the store close to me seem to all be longer a few yrs ago when the boxes where red they where shorter so I am kinda at a loss ? I am thinking reseat theses or load some empty cases i have ? jeff
.444
.444
I reload and shoot the .444 extensively. The lever action is rather finicky about O.L.
Seems you reload, so if I may suggest using the Hornady 300g. double cannalure pistol bullet. Crimp to the UPPER cannalure and the rifle should function flawlessly. the 300g. will give you better performance as I have found too.
My "Triple 4" works well with the heavy bullet even though others say differently.
Hope this helps.
.444
I reload and shoot the .444 extensively. The lever action is rather finicky about O.L.
Seems you reload, so if I may suggest using the Hornady 300g. double cannalure pistol bullet. Crimp to the UPPER cannalure and the rifle should function flawlessly. the 300g. will give you better performance as I have found too.
My "Triple 4" works well with the heavy bullet even though others say differently.
Hope this helps.
swedeshooter
Member
444
444
I have a shoulder knocking Winchester 94 Big Bore Black Shadow.
Geez it hurts to shoot the Hornady ,but, I have not experienced any loading problems at all. Wonder if you got a bad(?) batch, ie. oacl . Check the lot number in the box lid.
As has been noted on previous reply, Hornady is very responsive to customers.
444
I have a shoulder knocking Winchester 94 Big Bore Black Shadow.
Geez it hurts to shoot the Hornady ,but, I have not experienced any loading problems at all. Wonder if you got a bad(?) batch, ie. oacl . Check the lot number in the box lid.
As has been noted on previous reply, Hornady is very responsive to customers.
Reseat
Reseat
Jeff,
If you have a collet puller you should be able to pull the bullet, resize and recrimp. I'd be very careful about just "pushing" the bullet deeper and recrimping. I'm betting the integrity of the bullet wil be changed enough to lessen It's performance. A collet die will be useful in reseating the bullet too.
You're using the FP bullet right?
Reseat
Jeff,
If you have a collet puller you should be able to pull the bullet, resize and recrimp. I'd be very careful about just "pushing" the bullet deeper and recrimping. I'm betting the integrity of the bullet wil be changed enough to lessen It's performance. A collet die will be useful in reseating the bullet too.
You're using the FP bullet right?
deeper seating
deeper seating
Using the proper seater die and carefully seating the bullet a little deeper but keeping it still within the crimp will in no way hurt the "integrity" of the bullet. I'm not really sure what you meant by that. Making sure the crimp is still good by using the crimping segment of the die won't hurt either, but I have reseated bullets deeper on numerous rounds with or without cannelures with no problems. But, as another poster suggested, getting some double cannelured Hornady bullets and loading them, if you have time to fire them and check for accuracy, pressure, etc., isn't a bad idea either.
deeper seating
Using the proper seater die and carefully seating the bullet a little deeper but keeping it still within the crimp will in no way hurt the "integrity" of the bullet. I'm not really sure what you meant by that. Making sure the crimp is still good by using the crimping segment of the die won't hurt either, but I have reseated bullets deeper on numerous rounds with or without cannelures with no problems. But, as another poster suggested, getting some double cannelured Hornady bullets and loading them, if you have time to fire them and check for accuracy, pressure, etc., isn't a bad idea either.
Seating the 444 Marlin
Seating the 444 Marlin
Jeff,
I read all this with interest and since your first post on this subject, something in the back of my mind said "this isn't right".
I have loaded for well over 100 calibers and in my head is a lot of numbers concerning COAL, diameters, case length, etc.
When I first read this I didn't have access to my notes. I checked a couple webb sites real quick and found Chuck Hawk's site and he erroneously listed the OAL as 2.550". Well he's been wrong before, as have I but this evening I found time at home and checked my notes and several loading manuals. The SAAMI maximum overall cartridge length for the 444 Marlin is .........2.570"
All my manuals show this number. Ken Waters, and others, list this as the COAL and he further states that some bullets seated shorter and longer than this dimension still feed smoothly. My notes with the Marlin rifle show no feeding problems with any bullet when seated between 2.500" and 2.600".
Various manuals for bullets list seating depth from 2.505" (Speer 240 gr.) to 2.570" (Swift A-frame 300gr,) Hornady does list their 265 grain load at an OAL of 2.560" so your loads are .010" longer than what they list as "normal" for that bullet. Can .010" make a difference?
Now to what is really going on. Your Winchester should accept the Hornady 265 grain fp load in the magazine and should chamber it easily. I find it hard to believe that .020" of an inch will keep a cartridge from going in the magazine of the Winchester. I'm wondering about the rifle.
Questions I've gotta ask:
1. Is this rifle chambered in the 444 Marlin caliber?
2. Have you fired any factory 444 Marlin ammo in this rifle before?
3. Have you fired any handloads in this rifle before?
4. If you have dies to reseat the bullet (and reload), why buy factory ammo?
5. From what reference do you seat your handloads to 2.550"?
6. What bullet have you loaded before that was seated to 2.550"?
If you reseat these loads, there is a chance of bulging the cases at the mouth and they likely won't feed at all. Generally after a cartridge is crimped, it cannot be seated deeper without problems. You might get by but I doubt it.
Both Hornady and Speer make the double cannelure 300 grain bullet for this caliber. For the 444, this bullet must be seated in the upper cannelure.
Good shootin'.
Murphy
Seating the 444 Marlin
Jeff,
I read all this with interest and since your first post on this subject, something in the back of my mind said "this isn't right".
I have loaded for well over 100 calibers and in my head is a lot of numbers concerning COAL, diameters, case length, etc.
When I first read this I didn't have access to my notes. I checked a couple webb sites real quick and found Chuck Hawk's site and he erroneously listed the OAL as 2.550". Well he's been wrong before, as have I but this evening I found time at home and checked my notes and several loading manuals. The SAAMI maximum overall cartridge length for the 444 Marlin is .........2.570"
All my manuals show this number. Ken Waters, and others, list this as the COAL and he further states that some bullets seated shorter and longer than this dimension still feed smoothly. My notes with the Marlin rifle show no feeding problems with any bullet when seated between 2.500" and 2.600".
Various manuals for bullets list seating depth from 2.505" (Speer 240 gr.) to 2.570" (Swift A-frame 300gr,) Hornady does list their 265 grain load at an OAL of 2.560" so your loads are .010" longer than what they list as "normal" for that bullet. Can .010" make a difference?
Now to what is really going on. Your Winchester should accept the Hornady 265 grain fp load in the magazine and should chamber it easily. I find it hard to believe that .020" of an inch will keep a cartridge from going in the magazine of the Winchester. I'm wondering about the rifle.
Questions I've gotta ask:
1. Is this rifle chambered in the 444 Marlin caliber?
2. Have you fired any factory 444 Marlin ammo in this rifle before?
3. Have you fired any handloads in this rifle before?
4. If you have dies to reseat the bullet (and reload), why buy factory ammo?
5. From what reference do you seat your handloads to 2.550"?
6. What bullet have you loaded before that was seated to 2.550"?
If you reseat these loads, there is a chance of bulging the cases at the mouth and they likely won't feed at all. Generally after a cartridge is crimped, it cannot be seated deeper without problems. You might get by but I doubt it.
Both Hornady and Speer make the double cannelure 300 grain bullet for this caliber. For the 444, this bullet must be seated in the upper cannelure.
Good shootin'.
Murphy
murphy
murphy
1* yes
2 yes both rem factory 240's & older hornady 265's coal 2.550 (still have 2)
3* yes cast perf 320gr wlngc .430 over 50g h322 coal 2.550
4* well good question just wasnt confident in my reloads this is the first gun i reloaded for & although all seems fine just weak in the knees i guess. I am going out wed for ak for a fly out moose hunt solo & this is my back up gun or might carry it for a bit really would like to use it, but I have always used my 06 on the 2 previous moose I have taken. The 320gr cast perform well on paper just unsure I guess.
5*honestly some info off beartooth reloading & finding out they wont fit thru the side if they are any longer.
6* again cast perf 320gr wlfngc
thanks jeff
murphy
1* yes
2 yes both rem factory 240's & older hornady 265's coal 2.550 (still have 2)
3* yes cast perf 320gr wlngc .430 over 50g h322 coal 2.550
4* well good question just wasnt confident in my reloads this is the first gun i reloaded for & although all seems fine just weak in the knees i guess. I am going out wed for ak for a fly out moose hunt solo & this is my back up gun or might carry it for a bit really would like to use it, but I have always used my 06 on the 2 previous moose I have taken. The 320gr cast perform well on paper just unsure I guess.
5*honestly some info off beartooth reloading & finding out they wont fit thru the side if they are any longer.
6* again cast perf 320gr wlfngc
thanks jeff
