Handloading/Reloading

Murphy

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Fifty Shooters

Fifty Shooters

Four inches...no I just mean the winners group that well. And, I think the guns are the Barrett M107 and weigh about 34 pounds. The shorty XM109 auto-loader is used in the litter box now quite a bit and some like it better. There is some pretty sophisticated equipment over there and a helluva bunch of great guys behind it.

Good shootin', guys.

Murphy
 

DR B

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damgoodshot
I don't have any pics of my groups I'm not a camera person and I don't well enough for some one to take the pics for me I post some of the groups that are on Long Range Hunting.

1000yd 6.5-284 3.66"
 

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whateveri8

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Murphy,

to get back on your thread, I'm from Ohio, a land where smokepoles and shotgun slugs are the only legal hunting tools for Whitetail deer. My idea over the years hunting deer in OH was to build a rifle that is .410 caliber and could chamber a .410 shotshell w/slug if Mr. Game Warden walked by the treestand, but in actuality this .410 "shotgun" would be a rifle able to fire a .410 slug, but also to fire a 41-70 cartridge or something along that concept (2 1/2" or 3" brass rimmed case).

Is there a wildcat, obsolete or factory load out there that is the same specs as a .410 shot shell, but is brass and can be loaded as a rifle cartridge? There's a russian mfg that makes brass shot gun shells in all gauges, but these brass cases are not strong enough to load up as I want to.

Upon examining the 405 Winchester round, this old idea of mine from childhood reappeared. I still think this could be a unique double rifle that could be used for firing .410 shot shells for whatever reason... any ideas or knowledge on this crazy venture? 9 times out of 10, a "new" wildcat round idea has been done in the past, or there is something out there close to it...
 

mauserboy

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Shot Jay

Shot Jay

I once shot a Blue Jay flying with my .257 Roberts Improved with a 6 power Balvar scope. Well, I fired at a 200 yard target, pulling the trigger a split second before the Jay flew right into the bullet path and exploded into a mass of feathered confetti. Total coincidence. The range master ran me off the range, convinced I had done it on purpose.
 

Murphy

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Four Ten Rifle

Four Ten Rifle

Whatever,

I don't have a 410 shell to put into the 405 or the 40-70 Sharps but I'm sure they are close.

I did some checking and I think the closest to the 410 dimensions is the 10.75 x65R. Brass is available for that from Bertram and can be found at Huntingtions, Grafs and probably Midway. This is a .423" bullet but case dimensions are very close. The 410 rim is .537" x.060" and the body is .475" at the base and tapers to about .465". I will try to find a 410 gauge (actually 67 guage) shell to try in the 405, it is pretty close.

WWG does advertise their co-Pilot as being able to take a 410 shell for a survival grouse gun in the 45-70 caliber. The 45-70 is a little oversized but will shoot the 410, the case expands quite a bit, but it works. With the 14,000 psi of the shotgun shell it isn't a big deal but it doesn't fit well.

Interesting concept. I remember Ohio, as I would pass through there, back in the old days when I could buy guns unabated, I would stop at the gun shops and look for bargains in centerfire rifles. They were cheap, nobody could hunt with them. I suppose there are no hunting accidents in Ohio because of that law.

I used to have a small civilian version of a bang stick which took a 410 shell, actually I think I still have that some where. They work good as a contact point weapon but have no range. A 410 slug does make a good Halibut gun.

There are a bunch of 40ish caliber straight case of the 19th century, of both U.S. and over the pond origins, it seems that was a very popular caliber. I really like forty caliber rifles but never thought of using a 410 shot shell in one. I'll look into that a little further. Good shootin'.

murphy
 

DR B

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45/410

45/410

Whateveri8
Thompson Center makes a 45LC/410 barrel for their single shot pistols contender and encore. I have never seen one in a TC rifle. You can't just put a 410 in a 45Lc, the chamber has to be lenghtened. The spin from the rifleing causes prolems with the pattern, TC has a external choke that stopes the spin and patterns well. Some of the after market barrel makers do the same thing with a 45-70 TC barrel.
Good Luck
DR B
 

whateveri8

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.410'S, 45-70'S and the like

.410'S, 45-70'S and the like

Thanks for the info on that, I've stuck .410 shells down in my trapdoor 45-70 and in the Marlin 1895 45-70 and it shoots, but it's more of a light spray effect, which now makes more sense to me after Dr B's explaination.

Murphy, your right about .410 slugs as a halibut gun. I've got one of those "Snake Charmers" - 18" stainless single shot with a pistol grip and a half-stock plastic deal that holds 4 rounds in the stock. I keep it on the boat. When someone gets a +50lb'er, I wait just before it gets to the surface and gauge between the eyes and down the head a few inches then PoP it! It works great and anyone else reading, look up .410 snake charmer on-line... Great little fishing guns, cheap too. It's a little better than a derringer due to the longer barrel lets your reach over the gunnel and get a little closer to the fish head, then PoP! Takes all the fight out of Mr. Big Fish while trying to get it on the boat.

Getting back to Ohio and no hunting accidents due to no rifles allowed for hunting does not stop hunting accidents. Some of those guys on Deer-GUN season opening day EVERY YEAR blow each other's torso's out w/ 12ga slugs. Some hunt in public hunting areas with ballistic vests to keep from being blown away. People get Buck Fever and shoot anything moving Orange or otherwise... I've heard several stories each season, but the one that sticks out is a guy shot a little girl in the head that was wearing a white hooded sweatshirt while boarding a schoolbus. The hunter said he heard a sound in the bush and thought it was a big buck jumping by the look of the pointed white "tail." Guess he did not pay any attention that behind this "white tail" was a huge wall of a big Yellow School Bus with red lights blinking.

After an initial cost analysis to put together a double rifle in a 40 caliber would be better served in a modern popular caliber. The 10.75 x65R was an interesting read. Further investigation was interesting as well. You're right about .40 cal rifles where the rage before smokless powders came about. I'm guessing that once Remington gets this SxS double Baikil Rifle out there in 45-70 and '06, there will be a resurgence of affordable double rifles in all kinds of old and new calibers. Handloading will really take off again as back in the day.

thanks for the research!
WEi8
 

George

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40s somthinorother

40s somthinorother

Murphy, you're right about the similarity among several of those-- 30-40 Krag, 40-70SS, 405 Win, 35 WCF. For convenience, could probably take a 40 cal. tapered expander and run it through a 30-40 to see what would come out or just try a 405. I know that some BPCR suppliers use the 30-40 as the basis for making up 40-70SS brass- not too many of the originals around and the originals are worth a bunch to cartridge collectors.
 

elmerkeithclone

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WhateverI8

WhateverI8

Check out this website.

http://www.endtimesreport.com/410reloading.html

I used to deer hunt just outside of Unionville Mo. The old timer that owned the land we hunted on lived in a 3 room house with no plumbing. This old boy(Everett Plumb) basicly lived off the land. He was one of the last of the homsteaders. He was living on 200 acres (mostly timber)that had been passed down through the family for several generations. He had the biggest garden I've ever seen. He canned garden goods over an old wood cook stove....he was the real McCoy! Everett had only one living relative, a 28 year old niece that so happened to be married to one of my hunting buddies.

Old Everett never hunted with our group but he always had a root cellar full of canned venison. For years he killed deer with slugs out of a single shot 410 made by Luthe Hardware company in DesMoines Iowa.

In 1977 we drove the final mile of our journey up an old dirt road to Everett's house for our yearly Missouri deer hunt. Upon pulling the camper up next to the house we could see a deer already hanging in the woodshed. We greeted old Everett and then half laughing I said you started a little early didn't ya Everett? Season doesn't start until day light in the morning. Everett spit out some of his WB cutt chew and looked me right in the eye and said (while pointing at the deer hanging in the woodshed) "Sonny looks to me like I was there at the exact right time. If Id'a been early Id'a come home empty handed". To Everett there was morning, midday, evening and bedtime. There was spring, summer, fall and winter. Everett had no need for clocks or calendars and he wasn't about to ride Rose(his horse) into town or bumb a ride so he could hand out money for a piece of paper that said it was ok to kill something on his property that belonged more to him than to them in the first place!

Everett then proceeded with pride to show us the deer he killed. While looking at his deer I noticed his 410 leaning against the shed wall. The barrel had been cut off. Somebody asked "What happened to your gun Everett?". His reply was I had to cut some barrel off cuz these new fangeled bullets were bigger than the hole. Everett had gotten a hold of a box of 444 marlins and was shooting them out of his 410. At least he had sense enough to turn one of the shells around to see how the bullet compared to the bore and promptly cut the choke part off. He also showed us the ram rod that he had rigged up because the little "catcher deal" wouldn't pull the empties out. I said is that what you used to kill this deer? He looked at me like it was the dumbest question ever asked and reached in his pocket and then tossed me the empty case. I examined the case and was surprised that there were no excess pressure signs or anything. The only reason he needed the ram rod was because the rim was smaller than that of the 410 and extractor wouldn't quite grab it.

Can you imagine 4 seasoned deer hunters standing there gaulking at each other in disbelief and the thoughts running through our heads? After all how can a .429 slug rattle down a larger diameter barrel with out the infulence of any twist and actually hit a deer square enough to kill it. At this point any thoughts going through our heads put into words would have been an insult to Everett. After all he had a dead deer didn't he. So Harold the mouthiest one of the bunch stated the obvious. " It must shoot pretty good Everett, Ya killed a deer with it"! Old Everett pointed to a hub cap hanging on a post in the back yard and said "I nailed that hub cap first shot from the back door". He was right too. There was a hole at 5 o'clock on that 15 inch hubcap. 7 inches low and a little to the right......not bad for a 25 yrd 1 shot group. Ater examining the hole it was obvious that the bullet wasn't pointing exactly straight forward when it hit the hubcap either! I might add that along with the barrel bobbing the bead was lost. So this was a point and shoot ordeal!

Everett died the following spring. The only claim to fame that Everett will ever be known for is that he was probably the first and the last to kill a deer with the 444-410 wildcat cartridge! However that fact is undisputable!

Can this be true? Well as EK would put it "Hell, I was there"!
 
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