ever wonder who the 22lr scalpers are?

[Drunken_Duncan]

Guys the fact is there are more than twice the number of shooters out there now than in 2007 but there is no more 22 ammo production capability . . . there are many more folks trying to get their portion of the same pie. There are such a small number of scalpers buying/selling 22 that even if you hang them all by the gonads and shut them down 100% you still won’t have any 22 on the shelf when you get there . . . all would be bought by the shooters and hoarders and you’d have zero opportunity to buy some when you need it at any price! If I needed 22 I’d be glad there are some scalpers out there willing to part with some now.


I refuse to sell any 22 anymore because of all this price animosity going on, I sure don’t want to be branded a scalper by the “occupy 22 ammo street” movement in the effort to redistribute the flow of 22 ammo wealth in a more “fair” way. Yea I have 22, more than I need because I hardly shoot it anymore but I’ll not sell any no way no how in this market. I give some away for kids to shoot but I’ll sit on most of what I have. I’m a dealer and get emails all the time, I could buy a pallet of 22 and lesson the Alaska shortage a tiny bit but I won’t because I couldn’t sell it for Wal-Mart price and would get branded a scalper which would be very bad for my reputable business!


This extra demand of new shooters/hoarders combined with the stone throwing at anyone that doesn’t keep a rock bottom price is the real problem guys! If the retail shop price never goes up then the wholesale price can’t ether.

So tell me;
Who is going to invest millions of dollars into new production facilities for a product that the price is fixed at an artificial low indefinitely by threat of boycott?



How will the availability ever get better with more than twice as many shooters now if nobody will grow the production side?


Are the handful of nasty scalpers selling a couple bricks a month to desperate people the real issue here?


Or is maybe some of the problem a vigilante/union picket line like attitude toward fair market pricing of 22 ammo that stifles investment in new production capasity?

I completely agree. What people don't realize with the way the market is right now is that 1) "scalpers" are in a no loose situation since they buy at a unreasonably low price. 2) The people that are pissy about price increases are also causing an issue 3) seems like everyone has 5 kids their introducing to shooting with a .22 and is also contributing the ammo shortage.

If basic economic principles were followed this would of sorted itself out but no, we have too many people that don't understand these principles which in turn leads to manufacturers and distributors from investing more (since the would be labeled unfairly by the market).

 

[ADfields]

Scalpers and their customers, are sending a message to manufactures and retailers that "customers" are willing to pay much more than current fair market value for the product. I am concerned that once the big box stores current inventory of 22 bullets are depleted, and a more consistent floor traffic of customers is established, the retail price of said item will be greatly increased due to the local market supporting the elevated price of "aftermarket" resale of 22 rim fire bullets.

[FONT=&quot]The inventory is depleted, has been a long time . . . that is the problem, no inventory on the shelf to buy. What there is comes in by a trickle as the manufactures make it and is snatched up before it even gets stocked on the shelf.


Nobody will raise the price because they don’t want to become a target like S&W did back in the 90s . . . everyone knows if they jack the price much at all regardless of what the market will bear they could spark a boycott. 22 ammo isn’t gas, hate the oil companies and gas stations all you want but you still got to buy gas but 22 ammo isn’t a necessity and last thing any manufacturer or retailer of 22 wants is their name on some big boycott drive!! [/FONT]

 

[Alangaq]

Listen, my point in posting this thread wasn’t to dive into the theory on economic principles, but was to get at a much more fundamental social principal, that is the act of publicly shaming those that behave in a way that is contrary to our (or MY social norms if it makes you feel better) social norms. Ohhh... my gosh, we can't do that! SHAME someone! I wouldn’t want to seem judgmental, or God forbid, politically incorrect! Gasp! The horror of it all...

Just how big of an impact do scalpers have versus hoarders or new gun owners during this current dry spell? I don’t know, and neither do you, however I do know that they have some impact, and when I see a DOZEN tables at a gun show stocked with .22lr ammo that is the EXACT same product that was sold less than 2 weeks prior at Walmart being sold at double to triple the price, that it chaps my backside and I'm not a nice enough guy to just let it slide. I'm also not above verbalizing my disgust with these folks in my attempt at publicly shaming them.

Flame on...

 

[Alangaq]

Regardless of economic theory, the laws of supply and demand, and capitalistic entrepreneurship intent; I THINK SCALPERS SUCK, and I am not afraid to tell them so!

 

[Smitty of the North]

Listen, my point in posting this thread wasn’t to dive into the theory on economic principles, but was to get at a much more fundamental social principal, that is the act of publicly shaming those that behave in a way that is contrary to our (or MY social norms if it makes you feel better) social norms. Ohhh... my gosh, we can't do that! SHAME someone! I wouldn’t want to seem judgmental, or God forbid, politically incorrect! Gasp! The horror of it all...

Just how big of an impact do scalpers have versus hoarders or new gun owners during this current dry spell? I don’t know, and neither do you, however I do know that they have some impact, and when I see a DOZEN tables at a gun show stocked with .22lr ammo that is the EXACT same product that was sold less than 2 weeks prior at Walmart being sold at double to triple the price, that it chaps my backside and I'm not a nice enough guy to just let it slide. I'm also not above verbalizing my disgust with these folks in my attempt at publicly shaming them.

Flame on...

Right ON.

There are too many folks that think this is OK. It ain't OK with me, and it never will be.

It's not so different from jacking prices on guns, during a time of shortage, but it's more transparent, and less limiting.

Recent practices are IMO giving Gun Shows a bad name. That last one was SLOW. I wonder why.

Smitty of the North

 

[Drunken_Duncan]

Regardless of economic theory, the laws of supply and demand, and capitalistic entrepreneurship intent; I THINK SCALPERS SUCK, and I am not afraid to tell them so!

Actually, I could spin that you're aiding in the shortage by expressing your discontent about "scalpers".

 

[Smitty of the North]

There are always people who are willing to defend "Shameful Behavior") (My definition) I can only speculate as to why this is true. But, it is True.

There are lots of ways to look at it, and we actually CHOOSE how we look at it.

How do you feel about this scenario? (I add that this is NOT any personal experience of mine, regarding 22 LR ammunition.)

You have a friend, acquaintance, pretty good friend, associate, who you like and probably admire in at least, some ways.

Then, you discover that HE, has been goin to Walmart, and buying up 22 LR ammunition by mostly tricky means with the express purpose of reselling it for MUCH higher prices to those who were unable to buy it.

HE thinks he's Shrewd, Wise, and KOOL even.

It's a given that it might depend somewhat on how badly YOU personally, need or want 22 LR ammo, but how do you feel about your friend now?

Would this effect your friendship, or your relationship with him in any way?

Would you congratulate him?, encourage him?

Would you buy 22LR ammunition from him?

Smitty of the North

 

[Alangaq]

Actually, I could spin that you're aiding in the shortage by expressing your discontent about "scalpers".

And that is all it would be... spin..

 

[Drunken_Duncan]

There are always people who are willing to defend "Shameful Behavior") (My definition) I can only speculate as to why this is true. But, it is True.

There are lots of ways to look at it, and we actually CHOOSE how we look at it.

How do you feel about this scenario? (I add that this is NOT any personal experience of mine, regarding 22 LR ammunition.)

You have a friend, acquaintance, pretty good friend, associate, who you like and probably admire in at least, some ways.

Then, you discover that HE, has been goin to Walmart, and buying up 22 LR ammunition by mostly tricky means with the express purpose of reselling it for MUCH higher prices to those who were unable to buy it.

HE thinks he's Shrewd, Wise, and KOOL even.

It's a given that it might depend somewhat on how badly YOU personally, need or want 22 LR ammo, but how do you feel about your friend now?

Would this effect your friendship, or your relationship with him in any way?

Would you congratulate him?, encourage him?

Would you buy 22LR ammunition from him?

Smitty of the North

The only thing that may sway me would be if he was doing this with all the food, water, clothing or shelter in Alaska. But we're talking .22 ammo here.

 

[Alangaq]

The only thing that may sway me would be if he was doing this with all the food, water, clothing or shelter in Alaska. But we're talking .22 ammo here.

What difference does the commodity make? In your mind it's OK if your buddy scalps ammo, but not OK if he scalps food or water? Or is it the quantity that matters since you mentioned "all"? I'm not sure what you are getting at, however In my mind it demonstrates the character and moral fiber (or lack thereof) of the individual. I am completely confident that someone who is fine with scalping .22lr will be equally at ease scalping any other commodity if the opportunity presents itself.

To Smitty's question; I try very hard not to socialize with people that are lacking in good character and moral fiber. Those few that I consider friends are likeminded in their disgust and disdain of scalpers. To a man, they would give you a free brick of .22lr and never, ever consider scalping that brick and bringing shame upon themselves and their family name.

 

[Drunken_Duncan]

And that is all it would be... spin..

Same thing you're doing about "scalpers". You have spun quite the story and generalized anyone that sells ammo over what you think is fair.

 

[AKBEE]

What goes around comes around.
What I have stated before is that if people are selling extra ammo it is not considered a business and therefore not regulated. However, f they are buying and selling (scalping) as some appear to be doing with sole intent on making a profit and in large numbers- it is considered a business and is prone to regulation and taxes as income. I wonder how much income they have not paid in taxes then...

 

[Drunken_Duncan]

What difference does the commodity make? In your mind it's OK if your buddy scalps ammo, but not OK if he scalps food or water? Or is it the quantity that matters since you mentioned "all"? I'm not sure what you are getting at, however In my mind it demonstrates the character and moral fiber (or lack thereof) of the individual. I am completely confident that someone who is fine with scalping .22lr will be equally at ease scalping any other commodity if the opportunity presents itself.

To Smitty's question; I try very hard not to socialize with people that are lacking in good character and moral fiber. Those few that I consider friends are likeminded in their disgust and disdain of scalpers. To a man, they would give you a free brick of .22lr and never, ever consider scalping that brick and bringing shame upon themselves and their family name.

Wow, I didn't realize how much you guys value .22 ammo. Kind of sad in my opinion that you put so much value on a non-necessity. You're probably the same guys that go to a baseball game and pay $10 for a beer. I mean its just beer and its baseball game they're allowed to do this.....right? Hypocrites......

 

[Brian M]

Wow, I didn't realize how much you guys value .22 ammo. Kind of sad in my opinion that you put so much value on a non-necessity. You're probably the same guys that go to a baseball game and pay $10 for a beer. I mean its just beer and its baseball game they're allowed to do this.....right? Hypocrites......

It's not .22 ammo that they highly value, Duncan - it's common decency that is valued, and that which seems to be lacking in those that are described in this thread.

Incidentally, the $10 beer analogy doesn't hold water. One can quite easily go buy beer elsewhere for significantly lower prices. One cannot simply go buy .22 ammo elsewhere for lower prices - at least not with any predictability - and part of the reason is because of the hoarding/scalping. If the arena bought up the entire supply of beer and then charged their outrageous prices, then you'd have a point - but of course, that's not what happens.

 

[Alangaq]

It's not .22 ammo that they highly value, Duncan - it's common decency that is valued, and that which seems to be lacking in those that are described in this thread.

Incidentally, the $10 beer analogy doesn't hold water. One can quite easily go buy beer elsewhere for significantly lower prices. One cannot simply go buy .22 ammo elsewhere for lower prices - at least not with any predictability - and part of the reason is because of the hoarding/scalping. If the arena bought up the entire supply of beer and then charged their outrageous prices, then you'd have a point - but of course, that's not what happens.

Clearly Brian M gets it.. Drunken Duncan... not so much...

 

[Drunken_Duncan]

It's not .22 ammo that they highly value, Duncan - it's common decency that is valued, and that which seems to be lacking in those that are described in this thread.

Incidentally, the $10 beer analogy doesn't hold water. One can quite easily go buy beer elsewhere for significantly lower prices. One cannot simply go buy .22 ammo elsewhere for lower prices - at least not with any predictability - and part of the reason is because of the hoarding/scalping. If the arena bought up the entire supply of beer and then charged their outrageous prices, then you'd have a point - but of course, that's not what happens.

Actually you can't bring outside food or drink into the ball game. Its in own environment at that point. I took a micro environment and applied it to a macro scenario.

Ahh I see the issue now on why we're not talking the same language. It seems a lot of people are trying to add a personal piece to a business situation. The way I see it is this is strictly business you buy low, you sell high. Simple as that. Not enough margins for me but I could see people that are struggling to make a few extra dollars trying this approach. From a business prospective its a solid plan. You invest and get a return of 200%. Problem is though not enough stock available to make it worthwhile for someone that already makes a decent living.

 

[Money Pit]

So if you need .22 ammo and you didn't have the hindsight to stock up then suddenly anyone selling it for a profit is a scalper?
Guess none of you ever bought anything in your life and sold it for more than what you paid for it?

I bought more .22 ammo than I care to count at least five years ago simply because the price was so low at $8.97 per 550 bulk pack it was less expensive than when I was a young'en. And, I have no intention of selling any of it.

Free enterprise is still allowed and I hope it continues. NO ONE IS MAKING ANYONE BUY 22 AMMO AT THE GUN SHOW.

Precious metals, land, housing, etc. The buyers set the price for it all, not the sellers. If the sellers have to high of a price no one will buy it.

 

[akss]

The TL;DR of it..

The TL;DR of it..

• Scalpers are meth cookers
• Stop having kids and introducing them to shooting
• Maybe the rest of us canz have some 22LRs

:lol:
On a more serious note though, I did see bricks of 500 out there for $60. I'm going to just wait it out. Last year it was 223, everyone started shooting .22lr and buying uppers chambered for it and such. Now we're all out of .22. Now that 223 is back, I'm assuming it will balance out shortly. Last year 223 wasn't even anywhere to be found, at least now we're seeing .22 once in a while, if only rarely and with luck.

 

[Frostbitten]

So if you need .22 ammo and you didn't have the hindsight to stock up then suddenly anyone selling it for a profit is a scalper?
Guess none of you ever bought anything in your life and sold it for more than what you paid for it?

I'm thinking you meant "foresight", but your point is taken. I don't believe the issue is that folks are scalping/selling their overly large stock piles of .22 at stupid prices. Whether they sell them, sit on them or just brag about how many they have piled up is irrelevant, the fact is when a select few buys every round that can be found, the vast majority suffers the consequences. Folks can say all they want that there are twice as many shooters now as there were in 2007. There may be twice as many gun owners, but not twice as many shooters. Before a guy can be a shooter, he has to be able to buy ammo....

 

[Ak Bird Brain]

Redden Marine in Homer (formerly the Kachemak gear shed) has .22's on the shelf at $10.00 per 50 rounds.