Collected firewood wisdom
- Thread starter swmn
- Start date
And finally...
So I kinda had my suspicions all summer. These stacks in the side yard are still as straight and square as I stacked them. Not shifting, therefore not shrinking, therefore not yet dried even to the fiber saturation point yet, ~30%MC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibre_saturation_point .
FWIW the rest of my woodpile out in the sun and wind (see first image) has fallen over twice this summer from shrinkage and once from my being a bonehead.
CCHRC says out in the open during a typical Alaska summer green wood with the sap up split and stacked on May 15 should be dried to the fiber saturation point and starting to shrink in "about" two weeks.
Next year I am going to put a cord or two on pallets on my asphalt driveway on the north side of the house just to see...
So I kinda had my suspicions all summer. These stacks in the side yard are still as straight and square as I stacked them. Not shifting, therefore not shrinking, therefore not yet dried even to the fiber saturation point yet, ~30%MC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibre_saturation_point .
FWIW the rest of my woodpile out in the sun and wind (see first image) has fallen over twice this summer from shrinkage and once from my being a bonehead.
CCHRC says out in the open during a typical Alaska summer green wood with the sap up split and stacked on May 15 should be dried to the fiber saturation point and starting to shrink in "about" two weeks.
Next year I am going to put a cord or two on pallets on my asphalt driveway on the north side of the house just to see...
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akgun&ammo
New member
if stacked fairly neat... even drying under a roof the rows won't fall down
there are many ways to be sure they don't
one I like is the lean in on both back and front stacks.
start your second row first... stack straight and upright...
go back to your "first" stack- start the row about 6 inches from the base of the second row...
by time you get to the top of the stack - have it touchingthe second row
depending on number of rows...
stack three would be staight and up right
the last row start about 6 inches away and by the time you gewt to the top- have touching row befoee it
Make sense??
course my "house wood shed" has back wall and two side walls... so this method is moot with that kind of support
but I do stack in yard to get wood dried enough to re-stack for easy access
Chris
there are many ways to be sure they don't
one I like is the lean in on both back and front stacks.
start your second row first... stack straight and upright...
go back to your "first" stack- start the row about 6 inches from the base of the second row...
by time you get to the top of the stack - have it touchingthe second row
depending on number of rows...
stack three would be staight and up right
the last row start about 6 inches away and by the time you gewt to the top- have touching row befoee it
Make sense??
course my "house wood shed" has back wall and two side walls... so this method is moot with that kind of support
but I do stack in yard to get wood dried enough to re-stack for easy access
Chris
akgun&ammo
New member
plus, that gives airflow between the three or four stacks of wood
more air = more drying ???>?
Chris
more air = more drying ???>?
Chris
I got some data to share. I kept a bunch of birch as unslipt rounds this summer just to see what would happen to them, mostly small stuff but a few big ones.
These first four were the biggest ones. The larger two, about 11" in diameter, were felled in August 2013. Bark was left intact, no striping or unzipping. One of them rode around in my wife's truck bed all winter, outdoor parking at her office and 55dF inside garage overnight. The other big one I kept out in the yard and split other pieces of wood on it. Both of these 2 rounds spent the summer of 2014 laying in my yard. The smaller two rounds, about 8-9" in diameter were felled in April 2014. I did stripe or unzip the two smaller ones right where they lay before the log was bucked into rounds. These two also spent the summer of 2014 out in my yard on the ground.
I brought them into the garage in the last couple weeks to see what happened.
These first four were the biggest ones. The larger two, about 11" in diameter, were felled in August 2013. Bark was left intact, no striping or unzipping. One of them rode around in my wife's truck bed all winter, outdoor parking at her office and 55dF inside garage overnight. The other big one I kept out in the yard and split other pieces of wood on it. Both of these 2 rounds spent the summer of 2014 laying in my yard. The smaller two rounds, about 8-9" in diameter were felled in April 2014. I did stripe or unzip the two smaller ones right where they lay before the log was bucked into rounds. These two also spent the summer of 2014 out in my yard on the ground.
I brought them into the garage in the last couple weeks to see what happened.
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Recalling that I am limited to two pictures per post...
I split one of the eleven inchers with intact bark open. The interior was wet to the touch, the wood was soft and my moisture meter pegged at 35% really fast. I was going to hold on to the other 11 incher for another year but I couldn't see any good reason to follow through. So I split the other one open and found about the same. Lots of mold or fungus in both of them where the bark peeled away during splitting. I have them out on my seasoning rack all touching one another, I expect I'll recognize them when I move wood from the seasoning racks to the woodshed in Autumn 2015.
I split one of the eight inchers open and found solid but still wet wood. I found 35 (+) % MC only an inch or two from the striping cut - but the meter was slowing its ascent when it stopped at the 35%, I didn't find any mold in the one I did split and the wood felt pretty much like birch.
I kept the other small round of the original four and have it out on my seasoning rack to examine again come Aug/Sep 2015.
I split one of the eleven inchers with intact bark open. The interior was wet to the touch, the wood was soft and my moisture meter pegged at 35% really fast. I was going to hold on to the other 11 incher for another year but I couldn't see any good reason to follow through. So I split the other one open and found about the same. Lots of mold or fungus in both of them where the bark peeled away during splitting. I have them out on my seasoning rack all touching one another, I expect I'll recognize them when I move wood from the seasoning racks to the woodshed in Autumn 2015.
I split one of the eight inchers open and found solid but still wet wood. I found 35 (+) % MC only an inch or two from the striping cut - but the meter was slowing its ascent when it stopped at the 35%, I didn't find any mold in the one I did split and the wood felt pretty much like birch.
I kept the other small round of the original four and have it out on my seasoning rack to examine again come Aug/Sep 2015.
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I also experimented with unzipping or striping some small pieces. I ran 1-4" diameter birch and spruce both zipped and not zipped on both the sunny and shady sides of my E-W oriented seasoning rack. All these were up on the rack and ready to start seasoning on May first 2014. I kept the sunny and shady side samples segregated. All of my data has been collected in the last two weeks or so, so early October 2014.
First, all the birch and spruce pieces cut to 16" long and under 2" in diameter, zipped or not, sunny side or shady side are dry enough to burn in my catalytic equipped stove after one summer on the rack, I am seeing 14-16% MC in every piece I open. FWIW my rack is pallets on cinder blocks, with the top of the stacks covered with plastic all summer. I did buy a weedeater this year to keep the grass trimmed between the cinder blocks.
Spruce up to 3" in diameter with a stripe cut in the bark, no matter how knotty, shady or sunny, ready to burn in one summer, lots of 13-15% numbers and cutting some of those SOBs open to get a meter in there was a pain in my neck.
Spruce over three inches with intact bark is over 35% for me after one season - but I split all the easy ones that size, so all the 3" diameter spruce I have unsplit is loaded with knots. Should have cut a stripe in those.
Birch, 2-4" in diameter, 16" length, striped or not, shady or sunny, striped or not on the rack is drying fast enough to not rot, but at least another summer before I can burn them. Certainly the unzipped pieces are drier, I can pretty much count on 18-22% in a 3" diameter piece of birch with bark slit open; 3" diameter birch with intact bark is going to read 25-30% after one summer on my rack.
I am pretty confident the 2-4" diameter birch that does have a stripe cut in it will be down to 16% or less per electronic gizmo in two summers. Jury is still out, but the same 2-4" diameter birch with intact bark might require a third summer taking up valuable space on my seasoning rack before it is ready to burn.
In the pics, a plus sign means, yes, I did positively cut a strip in the bark. Minus sign, no I did not unzip the bark.
First, all the birch and spruce pieces cut to 16" long and under 2" in diameter, zipped or not, sunny side or shady side are dry enough to burn in my catalytic equipped stove after one summer on the rack, I am seeing 14-16% MC in every piece I open. FWIW my rack is pallets on cinder blocks, with the top of the stacks covered with plastic all summer. I did buy a weedeater this year to keep the grass trimmed between the cinder blocks.
Spruce up to 3" in diameter with a stripe cut in the bark, no matter how knotty, shady or sunny, ready to burn in one summer, lots of 13-15% numbers and cutting some of those SOBs open to get a meter in there was a pain in my neck.
Spruce over three inches with intact bark is over 35% for me after one season - but I split all the easy ones that size, so all the 3" diameter spruce I have unsplit is loaded with knots. Should have cut a stripe in those.
Birch, 2-4" in diameter, 16" length, striped or not, shady or sunny, striped or not on the rack is drying fast enough to not rot, but at least another summer before I can burn them. Certainly the unzipped pieces are drier, I can pretty much count on 18-22% in a 3" diameter piece of birch with bark slit open; 3" diameter birch with intact bark is going to read 25-30% after one summer on my rack.
I am pretty confident the 2-4" diameter birch that does have a stripe cut in it will be down to 16% or less per electronic gizmo in two summers. Jury is still out, but the same 2-4" diameter birch with intact bark might require a third summer taking up valuable space on my seasoning rack before it is ready to burn.
In the pics, a plus sign means, yes, I did positively cut a strip in the bark. Minus sign, no I did not unzip the bark.
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Couple more pics.
Also, I noticed on my main E-W oriented seasoning rack birch split to 4" maximum single dimension got down to 12% this summer on the south facing sunny side of the stack. Birch on the shady north facing side is reading 16% per electronic gizmo. All my spruce splits meter 12-14%. For next summer I am filling the sunny side with birch and putting all my spruce on the north facing shady side of the main rack and on the smaller N-S oriented racks.
NB: in the picture "negative" the piece at the back was a 4" wide split that was 2.5" from bark to split face from the shady side. I split it open, found 16% down near the bark - but to get it to stand up for the picture the other half of the same split had to be flipped over so that third piece at the back looks like a small round when in fact it is both halves of a freshly resplit split. Hope that makes sense.
Also, I noticed on my main E-W oriented seasoning rack birch split to 4" maximum single dimension got down to 12% this summer on the south facing sunny side of the stack. Birch on the shady north facing side is reading 16% per electronic gizmo. All my spruce splits meter 12-14%. For next summer I am filling the sunny side with birch and putting all my spruce on the north facing shady side of the main rack and on the smaller N-S oriented racks.
NB: in the picture "negative" the piece at the back was a 4" wide split that was 2.5" from bark to split face from the shady side. I split it open, found 16% down near the bark - but to get it to stand up for the picture the other half of the same split had to be flipped over so that third piece at the back looks like a small round when in fact it is both halves of a freshly resplit split. Hope that makes sense.
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If I am cutting green trees, I will wait till winter to cut them when the sap is down. Burn them the next year. I have noticed that birch that is cut with the sap in it takes forever to dry, even in a wood shed. I will try slicing the bark with my saw. Sounds like a good idea for birch.
Pretty small pieces. Some of mine are 6-8" square for night time burning.
Yup, pretty small pieces. I got caught with my wood burning pants down last summer when the wifey OKd a wood stove. This year we upgraded from EPA non-cat to EPA cat and I am learning all over again.
I have just started fooling with it but it __seems__ like maybe I wanna burn the big pieces in the shoulder seasons so I have less surface area of firewood lit and a smaller smoke load going to the cat and thus a cooler cat and house that isn't too terribly hot. Likewise save the small splits for deep winter so I can have a lot of surface area burning at once and a big load of smoke going to a really hot catalyst.
Only four hours in to a 6-8 week experiment, but it looks like I'll have to start seasoning some big splits
iofthetaiga
Well-known member
...Provided you can do so while keeping the cat "lit" and operating within it's required egt range...(I don't think "smoke load" (defined as the volume of unburned gasses and particulates exiting the primary burn chamber) is necessarily a function of fuel surface area volume, as it is a function of combustion temp + oxygen mixture, (tho available fuel surface area plays a direct role in your ability to maintain combustion temperature...))). Having never met a cat stove I am able to get along with (and I've tried really hard, with several different makes/models), I've given up on them, and will always opt for the most efficient non-cat stove I can buy. Best of luck with your new stove. Looking forward to future reports.
iofthetaiga
Well-known member
(Reposted for purposes of editing). :shot:
greythorn3
New member
Wish I could bring up some hard wood to guys. Here is my buddy Scott on the splitter [I took the shot with my cell] popping some Black Jack Oak, we found some dead standing in my back yard and started working it last weekend.
no thanks, nothing i would want from that state. besides your Alaskas annoying little sister.
Yup, I am just getting started fooling with bigger splits. I am going to have no trouble keeping the house hot with a belly full of small splits and a low thermostat setting once it cools off some more. Small splits and low thermostat setting doesn't do so good in the shoulder season we are having now, current experiment is a few big splits at the lowest thermostat setting that keeps it running.
There is a pretty active thread over on hearth dot com / talk / woodstoves, the 2014-15 Blaze King performance thread. The wife and I scored a new Blaze King Ashford 30 over the summer through the borough trade-in program.
My new cat stove does a lot of counter-intuitive things. I have only been running it 6-7 weeks, but I am keeping the house just as warm as last year and carrying noticeably less wood up the stairs to do it.
Remember this round? Post #45 above, top right corner?
Since post 45, this round was on the south face of an E-W oriented wood stack, down in a hole surrounded by broken pallet floor boards, but up on a cinder block.
I busted it open and found 24%MC per gizmo at the center. Good solid wood, not punky. No visible mold or fungus except on the end grain.
Since post 45, this round was on the south face of an E-W oriented wood stack, down in a hole surrounded by broken pallet floor boards, but up on a cinder block.
I busted it open and found 24%MC per gizmo at the center. Good solid wood, not punky. No visible mold or fungus except on the end grain.
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I have been reading up quite a little bit about repeatable subjective MC determination. There is not a lot of data out there, most of it is not birch specific and it doesn't agree with its self.
The closest thing I have found to "consensus" is that if birch wood makes foam at the end when it is on fire the MC is at least 25% (no, its at least 30% you moron) or higher. I find nothing close to consensus for snapping, popping or steaming.
So if it is foaming on the end its at LEAST 25%, could be a lot higher.
I tossed my freshly made chunk into a very hot stove. It lit off right away - clearly the surface is well below 25%MC, once it was going good I had no foam detectable with a naked eye.
The closest thing I have found to "consensus" is that if birch wood makes foam at the end when it is on fire the MC is at least 25% (no, its at least 30% you moron) or higher. I find nothing close to consensus for snapping, popping or steaming.
So if it is foaming on the end its at LEAST 25%, could be a lot higher.
I tossed my freshly made chunk into a very hot stove. It lit off right away - clearly the surface is well below 25%MC, once it was going good I had no foam detectable with a naked eye.
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I had been reading up on subjective MC determination because I got volun-told into a bunch of OT this winter.
I have burnt at least a face cord of these little guys in the last few months, but haven't been splitting them open before I burn them.
I have divided my results into three categories.
Bad means visible foam coming out the end of the stick, MC at least 25%.
Fair means no visible foam coming out the end, but not as dry as my stove likes.
Good means both no visible foam out the end, and my stove running the way it likes to run. With bigger splits I have figured out my catalyst equipped Blaze King runs best with cord wood at 12-16% MC. 17-18-19 is kind of iffy, 20% and up is not ideal.
With two years of experimental data, these are my findings.
1. Birch sticks one inch in diameter and smaller, with intact bark burn good after one year of seasoning. I don't try to harvest these with a chainsaw. But if I see them on the ground where I just harvested a tree, maybe I stepped on the stick twice 16" apart, I throw them in the truck to come home.
2. Birch sticks 1-2 inches in diameter with striped bark burn good after one year of seasoning.
3. Birch sticks 1-2" in diameter with intact bark burn fair after one year of seasoning and burn good after two years of seasoning.
4. 2-3" diameter birch sticks with striped bark burn good after one year of seasoning if they are on the south side of a stack that runs E-W.
5. 2-3" diameter birch sticks with striped bark burn fair after one year of seasoning on the north (shady) side of a stack oriented e-w.
6. 3-4" diameter sticks with striped bark need two years on the sunny side of the stack to burn good.
7. A 4" diameter birch stick - striped aggressively to 30-50% of total diameter- will burn good after one season on the sunny side of the stack.
If I was in a hurry to clear a space and wanted the wood for later, I would look for 7-8-9" diameter logs, cut them to probably 8 foot lengths and lay three or four of them down as sleepers creating an 8x8' footprint. Once they were positioned I would zip the bark along the top of each log so the bark could peel away equally towards the ground on each side.
Above that I would lay a perpendicular floor of logs 9" diameter and under, zipping the top of each one as they got laid in. Then I would have a 8x8' floor of birch logs that probably aren't going to rot in the next two years.
If your stove likes 20" wood it might make sense to cut these middle sized pieces to 100" instead of 96".
Then I would buck everything greater than 9" in diameter to stove length, split it one time only, and pile all the half rounds up on the 8x8 floor I just built.
I anticipate two years later none of that would be dry enough to burn, but none of it would be rotted.
I don't have any data for half rounds 10-11-12" in diameter, or any other diameter for that matter. I would not be surprised in the above scenario if some of the smaller diameter half rounds might be burnable after two years. If you can fish them out from under the split once half rounds, the <3" diameter logs with striped bark making up part of the floor above the sleepers will probably be dry enough to burn.
M2c anyway.
I have burnt at least a face cord of these little guys in the last few months, but haven't been splitting them open before I burn them.
I have divided my results into three categories.
Bad means visible foam coming out the end of the stick, MC at least 25%.
Fair means no visible foam coming out the end, but not as dry as my stove likes.
Good means both no visible foam out the end, and my stove running the way it likes to run. With bigger splits I have figured out my catalyst equipped Blaze King runs best with cord wood at 12-16% MC. 17-18-19 is kind of iffy, 20% and up is not ideal.
With two years of experimental data, these are my findings.
1. Birch sticks one inch in diameter and smaller, with intact bark burn good after one year of seasoning. I don't try to harvest these with a chainsaw. But if I see them on the ground where I just harvested a tree, maybe I stepped on the stick twice 16" apart, I throw them in the truck to come home.
2. Birch sticks 1-2 inches in diameter with striped bark burn good after one year of seasoning.
3. Birch sticks 1-2" in diameter with intact bark burn fair after one year of seasoning and burn good after two years of seasoning.
4. 2-3" diameter birch sticks with striped bark burn good after one year of seasoning if they are on the south side of a stack that runs E-W.
5. 2-3" diameter birch sticks with striped bark burn fair after one year of seasoning on the north (shady) side of a stack oriented e-w.
6. 3-4" diameter sticks with striped bark need two years on the sunny side of the stack to burn good.
7. A 4" diameter birch stick - striped aggressively to 30-50% of total diameter- will burn good after one season on the sunny side of the stack.
If I was in a hurry to clear a space and wanted the wood for later, I would look for 7-8-9" diameter logs, cut them to probably 8 foot lengths and lay three or four of them down as sleepers creating an 8x8' footprint. Once they were positioned I would zip the bark along the top of each log so the bark could peel away equally towards the ground on each side.
Above that I would lay a perpendicular floor of logs 9" diameter and under, zipping the top of each one as they got laid in. Then I would have a 8x8' floor of birch logs that probably aren't going to rot in the next two years.
If your stove likes 20" wood it might make sense to cut these middle sized pieces to 100" instead of 96".
Then I would buck everything greater than 9" in diameter to stove length, split it one time only, and pile all the half rounds up on the 8x8 floor I just built.
I anticipate two years later none of that would be dry enough to burn, but none of it would be rotted.
I don't have any data for half rounds 10-11-12" in diameter, or any other diameter for that matter. I would not be surprised in the above scenario if some of the smaller diameter half rounds might be burnable after two years. If you can fish them out from under the split once half rounds, the <3" diameter logs with striped bark making up part of the floor above the sleepers will probably be dry enough to burn.
M2c anyway.
