cleaning lead fouling

shayno

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So I fouled up a lever barrel pretty good trying different bullets. Anyone have a tried and true method for cleaning the leading out?
 

redale

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Used a sloution of hydrogen peroxide and vinegar. Mix those two 50/50. Use a bore brush and scrub. Swab and do it again. Do not soak the barrel or bore. Just put it on a brush, get the bore good and wet and scrub. Only used on stainless guns. Don't know what it might do to blued guns so be careful. Hope it helps.
 

iofthetaiga

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So I fouled up a lever barrel pretty good trying different bullets. Anyone have a tried and true method for cleaning the leading out?
Same as for lead fouling in wheelguns: pull a few strands out of a pad of bronze wool and wrap around your bronze bore brush. Removes lead clean as a whistle.
 

HCL

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+1 on the hydrogen peroxide and vinegar, but I use one of those green scratch pads cut down on a jag to scrub the barrel instead of brush. Leading will create a lot of work.
This maybe a long shot, but the best and fastest method I have ever seen is Mercury! If you have any mining buddies that have some, plug the end of the barrel and have a way to plug the other end, fingers in rubber gloves worked fine, but proceed at your own risk, pour about a teaspoon full down the barrel and let the Mercury run to the end, lift the other end so it runs back and forth and repeat a few times and all the lead will stick to the Mercury- then just unplug barrel and pour out into approved container, and clean as normal after shooting.
One thing to help is, if you ever shot jacketed bullets through that barrel and then lead bullets, even the slightest copper fouling will cause bad leading.
Hope this helps.
Mike
 

shayno

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+1 on the hydrogen peroxide and vinegar, but I use one of those green scratch pads cut down on a jag to scrub the barrel instead of brush. Leading will create a lot of work.
This maybe a long shot, but the best and fastest method I have ever seen is Mercury! If you have any mining buddies that have some, plug the end of the barrel and have a way to plug the other end, fingers in rubber gloves worked fine, but proceed at your own risk, pour about a teaspoon full down the barrel and let the Mercury run to the end, lift the other end so it runs back and forth and repeat a few times and all the lead will stick to the Mercury- then just unplug barrel and pour out into approved container, and clean as normal after shooting.
One thing to help is, if you ever shot jacketed bullets through that barrel and then lead bullets, even the slightest copper fouling will cause bad leading.
Hope this helps.
Mike



so do you know someone with some mercury? I had 20lbs of it last summer. Sold it..i will try the mix suggested. And yes, there was copper still left even though I THOUGHT it was clean enough.. Nope..
I really want to shoot cast only, but I have so MANY jacketed bullets left its going to be a PIA to switch back and forth.
 

HCL

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As a kid after the range or hunting or shooting I was the one that did most of the cleaning and have seen a fair share of mercury poured in barrels. But by no means do I claim to be expert! I just know it works.
It is a real PIA to switch back and forth, but once you get the copper or lead fouling out you should be able to switch back and forth (unless you get more fouling) without too much trouble. The trouble begins when you don't notice that little bit of copper fouling.
I switch back and forth with my 45acp occasionally, but try I to stick to lead.
Bullet sizing and lube are the key to prevent leading, with the right size (determined by slugging barrel) and the right lube you can drive bullets well past 2300fps without leading.
Is your lever gun Ballard rifling or Microgroove? With the Microgroove they tend to like a really hard bullet and gas checks but the Ballard rifling you can get away with a little softer one with or without gas check- though I prefer gas checks with most all rifle bullets.
Hope this helps.
Mike
 

shayno

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As a kid after the range or hunting or shooting I was the one that did most of the cleaning and have seen a fair share of mercury poured in barrels. But by no means do I claim to be expert! I just know it works.
It is a real PIA to switch back and forth, but once you get the copper or lead fouling out you should be able to switch back and forth (unless you get more fouling) without too much trouble. The trouble begins when you don't notice that little bit of copper fouling.
I switch back and forth with my 45acp occasionally, but try I to stick to lead.
Bullet sizing and lube are the key to prevent leading, with the right size (determined by slugging barrel) and the right lube you can drive bullets well past 2300fps without leading.
Is your lever gun Ballard rifling or Microgroove? With the Microgroove they tend to like a really hard bullet and gas checks but the Ballard rifling you can get away with a little softer one with or without gas check- though I prefer gas checks with most all rifle bullets.
Hope this helps.
Mike

Im not sure what barrel it is. It is a marlin 1894 ss from around 2001. Is there a way to tell if its one or the other on the style of rifleing? I did not slug the barrel.... I should do that.
 

HCL

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Ballard rifling will look deep and defined lands and grooves and the Microgroove is very shallow with a lot of groves, don't remember but want to say around 10-12 groves versus I think 6 for the Ballard rifling. They both shoot really good, they are just alloy hardness dependent! My 1894ss really likes those Lee 430-310 gc and I water drop just plain old WW. It is scary accurate and with a good load of H110 would not hesitate to chase moose around with it or use it for a camp or boat gun.
Slugging the barrel will tell you exactly what size bullet you need for your rifle, lots of methods but I just use PURE lead fishing weights a hair bigger than the bore. Lube the entire barrel with oil and start the weight with a wooden dowel then use the dowel and hammer to drive the weight through the barrel-- don't be afraid to whack that dowel with a good hammer, the less whacks, the less pain and aguish you will experience of driving something through the barrel. Very important that the dowel is just almost the diameter of the inside of the barrel or you can splinter it around the weight and that is really scary and becomes a chore to get out.
Once you have driven that weight through, measure it with calipers and a thousands bigger is the size of the sizing die you should be using. My sizing die ended up being .430 as the bore was .429.
Not using the right size bullet will/may cause bad leading as it is either over compressed through the bore or undersized does not seal off the hot gasses properly. Yes you really need to slug the bore to get the best results.
Will shoot you a PM with my contact info, sometimes it helps just to yack on phone if you are interested.
Thanks
Mike
 

shayno

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I Will have to slug it after I clean it. Right now its a smooth bore....
 

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Hey! If I look thru this empty beer bottle, I thi
True value in Anchorage has copper wool. Some 00 wrapped around a bore brush works good. Once you get the bbl clean, run a tight fitting oiled patch down the bore feeling for increased resistance anywhere there is a dovetail cutout in the barrel I.e. forearm hanger, sights etc. I have frequently noted Marlins with this condition (all have been microgrove bbl's so far) and it can contribute to leading and poor accuracy. Fire lapping is the cure for such a defect...

Once you hace a clean barrel that is the same internal diameter its entire length you wont have any leading issues provided you use bullets sized correctly and of proper hardness. For my 30/30, 375w, and 45/70 I use WW + 2% tin, gas checked, lubed with 50/50% soft NRA formula lube, sized .001 - .002 over grove diameter. These are good for velocity pushing up on 2, 000 fps

Good luck
 

shayno

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True value in Anchorage has copper wool. Some 00 wrapped around a bore brush works good. Once you get the bbl clean, run a tight fitting oiled patch down the bore feeling for increased resistance anywhere there is a dovetail cutout in the barrel I.e. forearm hanger, sights etc. I have frequently noted Marlins with this condition (all have been microgrove bbl's so far) and it can contribute to leading and poor accuracy. Fire lapping is the cure for such a defect...

Once you hace a clean barrel that is the same internal diameter its entire length you wont have any leading issues provided you use bullets sized correctly and of proper hardness. For my 30/30, 375w, and 45/70 I use WW + 2% tin, gas checked, lubed with 50/50% soft NRA formula lube, sized .001 - .002 over grove diameter. These are good for velocity pushing up on 2, 000 fps

Good luck

thanks for advice. I'm gonna clean it tomorrow. As far as tight spots in the barrel, maybe where the barrel band/dovetail is.
 

Alangaq

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Hey! If I look thru this empty beer bottle, I thi
Ys, the barrel band dovetail is often a tight area. Brownells and Midway USA sell the fire lapping kit. Use your lead bullets (properly sized of course) with the abrasives in the kit and reduced loads. Keep velocity around 1, 000 fps if you can. Start with 5 shots of each grit, cleaning the barrel after each string, then 10 shots with the final and finest grit. Make sure you lube the bullets prior to impregnating with the abrasive grit. If you find that the bullets you have are a bit undersized, you can squash them up a bit in a vice and then run them thru a lube size die...

The process is a PIA but it's worth it, and as a bonus, accuracy will also improve with cast bullet loads.
 

AlaskanTides

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hydrogen peroxides and vinegar eats lead like no other... That being said it Is very toxic And should be handles and disposed of properly.

Personally I would rather rebarel the rifle then screw around with Mercury.

I reccomend iofthetiaga's suggestion. But for me....playing around with toxic waste or Mercury neither one is an option I'm willing to consider...

good od luck with the rifle.
 

HCL

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hydrogen peroxides and vinegar eats lead like no other... That being said it Is very toxic And should be handles and disposed of properly.
Personally I would rather rebarel the rifle then screw around with Mercury.
I reccomend iofthetiaga's suggestion. But for me....playing around with toxic waste or Mercury neither one is an option I'm willing to consider...
good od luck with the rifle.

Don't break a high efficiency light bulb in your house, you dang sure don't want to know what is in that!
And the gasses that your carpet put off, not to mention the paint, insulation and glue used on the water line, etc.
I will leave it at that.
Mike
 

AlaskanTides

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Don't break a high efficiency light bulb in your house, you dang sure don't want to know what is in that!
And the gasses that your carpet put off, not to mention the paint, insulation and glue used on the water line, etc.
I will leave it at that.
Mike

Your right in the fact that there seem to be harmful ingredients in just about everything these days... However I can not control the carpet nor flooring in my neibors house nor the cell phone waves in the air... I can't control the asbestos in a pre model 70's popcorn style ceiling nor the asbestos in the tile in the floor.

I can can choose however to limit my exposure to any known sources of asbestos , mercury and Lead.. Thus I choose to do so. For example I am exposed to a certain amount of lead every time I fire a gun... But the waste , that the reaction that vinegar and peroxide create when removing lead .... Is known to be more lethal.... it creates lead acetate crystals. The vapor and any residue of which is considered to be toxic waste. It can get transferd into your body much more easily then in other forms.

i can't control your choices nor the choices of those made by others over 30 years ago. I Will say , that there's alot we didn't know 30 years ago when folks were smoking a pack a day and draining radiator fluid in the bushes.....but please be a good neighbor and don't poor that crap down your sink that way the rest of us have to deal with residuals it in our well water....

good luck.
 

shayno

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hydrogen peroxides and vinegar eats lead like no other... That being said it Is very toxic And should be handles and disposed of properly.

Personally I would rather rebarel the rifle then screw around with Mercury.

I reccomend iofthetiaga's suggestion. But for me....playing around with toxic waste or Mercury neither one is an option I'm willing to consider...

good od luck with the rifle.


Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know the two were reactive together. As I stated earlier, I had found over 20 lbs of liquid mercury last summer. How I found it is a good story. I am a commercial diver (oil field, wet welding, marine construction, bridge stuff, ship husbandry) and I was in a certain installations potable water supply. Now, no one had been in it in 65 years.... Well back in the day they used to have mercury gauges I guess and daily the maintenance guys would top off the gauges. When a gauge was over flowed or the container of mercury was spilled it went right into the drinking water... So after 65 years they call us up and want a inspection for some sort of new federal guidelines.... ok, fine enough. SO im doing my thing underwater way back in this tank about 265 foot back. And guess what I find, mercury. I can only claim I found 20 lbs... and I also will say that a certain installation continues to drink that water everyday that I was swimming around in.... Now, at the time I found it I realized my Kevlar/neoprene dry suit was probably no the thing I should be wearing... anyway, no point to the story except we don't always want to know the details of everything! I did try to get them to buy me a new suit.. $3K...cheap ******* wouldn't do it. All I got out of it was a paycheck and some heavy metal testing...
 

ADfields

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Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know the two were reactive together. As I stated earlier, I had found over 20 lbs of liquid mercury last summer. How I found it is a good story. I am a commercial diver (oil field, wet welding, marine construction, bridge stuff, ship husbandry) and I was in a certain installations potable water supply. Now, no one had been in it in 65 years.... Well back in the day they used to have mercury gauges I guess and daily the maintenance guys would top off the gauges. When a gauge was over flowed or the container of mercury was spilled it went right into the drinking water... So after 65 years they call us up and want a inspection for some sort of new federal guidelines.... ok, fine enough. SO im doing my thing underwater way back in this tank about 265 foot back. And guess what I find, mercury. I can only claim I found 20 lbs... and I also will say that a certain installation continues to drink that water everyday that I was swimming around in.... Now, at the time I found it I realized my Kevlar/neoprene dry suit was probably no the thing I should be wearing... anyway, no point to the story except we don't always want to know the details of everything! I did try to get them to buy me a new suit.. $3K...cheap ******* wouldn't do it. All I got out of it was a paycheck and some heavy metal testing...
In my high school science class the teacher came around with a gallon jug of mercury on a cart (gallon of it is like 100lbs) and dipped out a half a cup on everyone's' station. For a month we played with mercury in class doing experiments. At the end he gathered it up and retorted it (distilled it) to bring it back to clean pure mercury. One of the emperors of Chinna drank a glass or more of liquid mercury every day and lived into his 80s or 90s.

Dangers of handling liquid mercury are WAY overblown, pretty harmless unless you vaporize it like the light bulbs do. Here in Phoenix there is a pass through the hills called Dreamy Draw. The name comes from all the gold miners cooking the mercury off their quick silver (gold/mercury amalgam) every night and getting all dreamy off the vapors . . . those boys teeth fell out like crack heads today and they died quite young.
 

redale

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The production of lead acetate requires more than hydrogen peroxide, acetic acid, and lead. The production process also requires lots of very high heat. The heat is what causes the lead and acid to form crystals which are fairly harmless unless the crystals are then vaporized and you breath the vapors. The same danger exists for anyone who casts bullets and breaths the vapors. If using hydrogen peroxide and vinegar to clean lead deposits from a gun barrel concerns you just don't use the stuff.
 
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Zack

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Chor Boy

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Same as for lead fouling in wheelguns: pull a few strands out of a pad of bronze wool and wrap around your bronze bore brush. Removes lead clean as a whistle.

Yep. Chor Boy copper pads work well also. Get them in the dishwashing isle at the grocery store. Just a few strands wrapped around an old bore brush. Box of pads will last a long time.
 

iofthetaiga

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Yep. Chor Boy copper pads work well also. Get them in the dishwashing isle at the grocery store. Just a few strands wrapped around an old bore brush. Box of pads will last a long time.
Sure, they're extremely effective...
but they're not messy, difficult, dangerous, or extraordinarily toxic...so where's the fun in that? :rolleyes:
 

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