Bullets for Moose and Grizzly

[Frankie 2 Times]

What bullets woudl you recommend to use for moose and grizzly. I'll be hunting with my 300 Ultra Mag this fall and wanted to make sure I have a good strong bullet. I'll obviously see what the rifle likes best. Looking for some suggestions.

F2T

 

[AKWannabe]

Ah ha...

Ah ha...

I just finished replying to the same post in the Hunting Forum and what do you know, here it is again in Shooting! No problem, hope my reply in Hunting is helpful.

Good luck, whichever way you decide!
Dave

 

[Murphy]

Moose & Bear bullets

Moose & Bear bullets

F2T,

Can you get a 338 barrel on that Ultra?!?

Heavier bullets are better in any caliber for animals that are very tough and tenacious. If you lung shoot a moose, he's done. If using a very high velocity round for heavy brown bears, you may find things not going well. If a good broadside shot into the boiler room, he will expire, but an angle either way could cause a bullet failure on bones and turn the hunt into something more exciting. With ultra velocities, you need a very strongly built bullet. A partition, as good as it is at 30-06 velocities, is not the best choice for higher impact velocity. The Swift A-frame is stronger, the Barnes TSX or a bullet not very well known is the A Sqauare DT (Dead Tough). I would hunt moose and bear with a 30-06 loaded with partitions before I would use a 300 Ultra with partitions. If you're dealing with the smaller interior grizzly, not such a problem but I still would not choose a lesser bullet.

I want to ask you, why did you choose the 300 Remington Ultra mag?
I guess it is because you view it as the all-around, do all rifle, right?
Another question, what makes it a better hunting rifle than a 30-06?
They are both 30 caliber and shoot the same weight of bullets.
Please, feel free to expand on your reasons for choosing the 300 RUM and it's many merits, I want to know the thinking, this is not an argument. Also, it is certainly a reach out caliber, is it also better up close? What makes a rifle caliber more or less effective in the field for the hunter?

I'm curious about some things and about this highly popular caliber.

AKWannabe,

I read your post on the Hunting forum and I agree with the Swifts but the "high point" of trajectory is not the mid-range. The "high point' is called the Max Ord (maximum ordinate) which is never mid range. The M.O. is higher than the 2.8" listed in the charts. Also, fell free to comment about the questions above. Good shootin'.

Murphy

 

[Frankie 2 Times]

I just finished replying to the same post in the Hunting Forum and what do you know, here it is again in Shooting! No problem, hope my reply in Hunting is helpful.

Good luck, whichever way you decide!
Dave

Sorry!!!! I wasn't sure which forum would be appropriate, I posted it in both places hoping to get feedback. My BAD!!!!

 

[AKWannabe]

Murphy

Murphy

F2T,
Listen to Murphy.

Murphy,
right you are sir. I was just looking at what was in the Swift manual, didn't have a ballistic program to get the whole scoop. They just show trajectory in 50 yd. increments. I have to say, I've never heard (or don't recall) that term, Maximum Ordinate. Thanks for teaching me the one thing I'm supposed to learn today! ;-)

Have a good one guys!

Dave

 

[Frankie 2 Times]

F2T,

I want to ask you, why did you choose the 300 Remington Ultra mag?
I guess it is because you view it as the all-around, do all rifle, right?
Another question, what makes it a better hunting rifle than a 30-06?
They are both 30 caliber and shoot the same weight of bullets.
Please, feel free to expand on your reasons for choosing the 300 RUM and it's many merits, I want to know the thinking, this is not an argument. Also, it is certainly a reach out caliber, is it also better up close? What makes a rifle caliber more or less effective in the field for the hunter?

I'm curious about some things and about this highly popular caliber.

AKWannabe,

Murphy

Murph,
First off, I already own and hunt with a 30-06, so I already like the round. But when it comes to things as big as a moose or things that bite back, I wanted more energy. Being from Michigan, most of my hunting is for whitetails. My trip to AK is more of a once in lifetime thing... or at least thats what my wife thinks. I wanted a caliber that could double as an AK round and a whitetail rifle with extra range. While I contemplated a .338 WIN, I just couldn't justify the rifle that probably wouldn't get much use after this trip. A .338 is just too much for whitetails.

Then there comes the issue of being left handed. Being a leftie dramatically reduces the number of choices. Basically we lefties get what scraps the gun manufacturers decide to let us have. While 14% of the population is left handed, only 4% of the rifles produced are for lefties. And of that 4%, it only in a very limited number of makes, models and calibers. (OK, I'm off my soap box... sorry.)

I wanted a Remington 700 because of their solid design in stainless steel. Not that there aren't other good rifles makes. Most gunsmiths are familiar with working on a 700 and there are also a good selection of after market upgrades. I wanted stainless steel for its corrosion resistance. That basically whittled the selection down to a LH Remington 700 LSS (which is no longer in production my you). The only availbe calibers were the .300 RUM, .338 RUM and the .375 RUM.

A .300 RUM is certainly not the best choice of a big bear gun. I'll be hunting interior grizzlies which ar econsiderably smaller than their costal cousins. I'll also have a guide for backup in case things go "bad".

The .300 RUM is a good round for long range shooting. Nothing wrong with a caliber that can reachout should the need arrise. Thats provided you are an accomplished shooter and have plenty of experience and practice at that range. You spend a ridiculous amount of money on a guided trip. You hope to be able to harvest an animal. While nothing is gaurenteed, and were not paying to harvest and animal but for the opportunity and the experience. I would be disappointed to hunt for 10 days and miss the only opportunity at an animal because it was outside the range of my 30-06. The RUM extend my range. And I really like a .30 caliber. So the .300 RUM was a logical choice.

Or maybe it just boils down to the fact that I have probably read too many bear attack stories and I felt I needed a bigger guns. I refuse to spend my last few hours on this earth being digested. BAAA HAAA.

F2T

 

[grizz106]

F2T,
My nephew bought a 300 RUM and what a shooter it is! Has the down range power. Bullet selection is not a problem - stick to the "premiums" ie..Swift,Barnes,Kodiaks,NorthForks etc... up close disinegrates most inexpensive makes of bullets or should I say cheap. Noslers won't hold up under them velocities although they are a good bullet for mid-vel.
If I may make a suggestion is that you change out that J-lock assembly if you go after real dangerous game. I did that on my .375 RUM. The trigger gaurd/floorplate is cheap, don't believe it would hold well if you fell on it-replaceable as well. Trigger is inferior as well-seems like Rem has problems building a solid rifle, can get a Timney that will work quite well. Shoot straight and hit em hard!

 

[AlleninAlaska]

But when it comes to things as big as a moose or things that bite back, I wanted more energy. F2T

Energy is just something the factories use to razzle and dazzle people. How would you rather die, by 10,000 foot pounds of energy in the butt or a sharp knife in the heart?

 

[AKMarmot]

300 ultra

300 ultra

F2T
I like your decision.
I traded my browning a-bolt 300 win mag for a rem 300 ultra a couple yrs ago & have been happier ever since.
It is a lighter gun to carry on sheep & goat hunts, shoots better & less recoil with just the factory pad, also has the down range power to feel confident with the long shots.
There will be a lot of people who tell you need the 338 as a minimum for bears up here. I have hunted the penn. with the 300 rum & know others who have as well with out problems.
I've used the swift scirocco take a goat & bou & plant them in their tracks with one shot.
I've also seen moose take a lot heavier caliber & take off running needing more than 1 more shot to anchor it, while on the flip side once saw a person use the lightest caliber legal & watched the moose fall like a pile of bricks. Bottom line get comfortable with your gun find a bullet it shoots well with & have fun.
If you want more opinons on different bullets for it try the 24 hour campfire forum because I know there are a lot of good shooters there that shoot 300 ultras & will share their opinions.
Murphy, I know you have forgotten more about guns than I will ever know but as an answer to you question why, its what works for me & I like it.
BTW - Allen, don't you shoot a 300 rum on occassion ??

 

[Murphy]

Shooting the 300 Ultra...

Shooting the 300 Ultra...

Three Hundred Ultra Shooters,

I have mixed feelings about this caliber. I think mostly this comes from what the marketeers and magazine writers had to say about it in the beginning. I first thought it too much fire and smoke. But spending time with it was learning experience.

A few years ago I had an opportunity to develop hunting loads for one of these new S/S Remington, Kevlar, Custom Shop Rifles. I chronographed a total of nearly 400 rounds through this one rifle and an identical one from another guy, both on their way to the southern plains of the Republic of South Africa. Rifle A would shoot every bullet into one neat 1/2"-3/4" group, rifle B would shoot everything into a nice 3" group (until the owner had it recrowned).

I went to Africa with the owner of the first rifle (rifle A, the good shooter) and this rifle would out shoot its owner (and me) easily. I borrowed it from him to finish an old Zebra stallion standing on a ridge all by himself after his herd ran off and left him. The lazer said 411 meters and the wind was strong. The PH had fired two from his 375 and gave up on wasting ammo. Or, he didn't like the banter that accompanied the shot smacking the ground scarcely half way to it's intended target. The zebra had taken a 200 grain power point (not a good bullet for anything tough) from a 338 Win, went down and rolled over and hoofed it. The near side shoulder (too high) was red down to the knee and he was a sick old boy. I bedded down on my pack and listened to the comments about how their grandmothers could shoot him if she had a week to make a hide. I held half a zebra into the wind and about a foot above my intended point of impact. There is a point on a zebra where the stripes come together on the point of the shoulder that makes a triangle shape. This is what we shoot for when we're after them. My "crew" would accept nothing less as a satisfactory hit. With a bottle of South African port on the line, I broke the crisp trigger of the Remington.

When a good shot is made on the shoulder the front falls first, when a high spine shot is made the rear quarters fall first. After I quickly recovered from the recoil and picked up the old boy through the Leupold, his rear end was still standing but his chin was making a cloud of dust in the dry, baked earth. That 200 grain Swift A-frame is one of my prized possesions. The classic mushroom shape and found under the hide in the far side arm pit (front leg pit).

Not many calibers are capable of such a shot and not many shooters have the confidence to try. I don't always make such a shot, but I think the 300 Ultra and my recent bonding time with it made all the difference. One must master the recoil, practice, and learn its trajectory well. Oh, yeah one more thing, a little luck helps. And, in case you wonder, I was in the triangle. Let's see you grandmother do that. Good shootin'.

Murphy

 

[Frankie 2 Times]

Energy is just something the factories use to razzle and dazzle people. How would you rather die, by 10,000 foot pounds of energy in the butt or a sharp knife in the heart?

Allen,
You assume that because there is more energy that I can't put it where it counts. If I could'nt shoot it, I wouldn't hunt with it. With that being said, which is more likely to produce a clean, humane kill, a sharp knife or 10K through the boiler room? I think we all know the answer to that one.

F2T

 

[Frankie 2 Times]

Murphy,
Love the story!!! You confirmed what I was trying to convey in my rational for choosing the 300 Ultra. Excellent down range performance in an accurate round. A bigger gun (338 or 375) isn't better if you can't put it where it counts. By the way, GREAT SHOT.

Now given my criteria.

1) Left Handed.
2) An all around gun used primarily for whitetails.
3) Stainless steel.
4) More energy and range than my 30-06.

What would you have choose. And lets keep the price under $1500 including optics. I use this price because thats what I'll have into it once Kirby from APS finishes with the rifle. I'm having a holland brake installed, pillar bedding, lugs lapped and the trigger tuned. Top it all off with a Leupold VX-III and burris signature rings and base. I would have had the action trued and a match barrel installed, but the lead time would keep the rifle at Kirby's place until well after my trip.

F2T

 

[AKMarmot]

300

300

Murphy,
Wow, thats sounded like a great expierence, glad to hear it ended well for you and thanks for sharing.
F2T,
Let us know what you go with on bullet choice.
I have to think the A-frames will work fine for you out here & the scirocco should hammer the whitetails back home. The only problem is the scirocco might leave a large exit hole resulting in some meat damage on the deer.
When you get that new gun back post a photo if you can.
Thanks & good luck

 

[AlleninAlaska]

Allen,
You assume that because there is more energy that I can't put it where it counts. If I could'nt shoot it, I wouldn't hunt with it. With that being said, which is more likely to produce a clean, humane kill, a sharp knife or 10K through the boiler room? I think we all know the answer to that one.

F2T

I didn't say you couldn't shoot. I said that muzzle energy is something that the factories use to razzle and dazzle people. I shoot a 300 RUM. But I use it because it is very flat shooting way out there beyond normal ranges. I also shoot a 257 STW with 100 grain bullets. I use both of these cartridges because they are flat shooting. I load both of them with light for caliber bullets. 150 grain in the 300 RUM and 100 grain in the 257 STW. Neither one of these cartridges loaded with light bullets has a whole lot of muzzle energy for their respective bullets weights. But both of the cartridges will completely penetrate any caribou that walks the face of the earth at 500 yards. Bullet weight is far more important when it comes to bears and moose as opposed to how much muzzle energy is being put out by said cartridge. I have taken moose and caribou with handgun cartridges that do not even put out 2000 foot pounds of muzzle energy at the muzzle. But I was using heavy for caliber hard cast bullets that will do nothing but penetrate. I put a 325 grain Beartooth Bullets cast bullet completely lengthwise of a moose at 60 yards from a 430 JDJ that only had an initial muzzle velocity of 1720 FPS. I put another Beartooth Bullets 265 grain 41 magnum bullet completely through a Musk Ox at 80 yards from a revolver that was not even putting out 1300 FPS from the muzzle. See, muzzle energy is just to razzle and dazzle people. It's not muzzle energy you are looking for, it's bullets that can't be stopped or blown apart by the velocity of the 300 RUM. I could go on and on about bullets used as opposed to foot pounds of energy.

 

[DPhillips]

Take a long hard look at Mike Brady's North Fork Bullets. Give him a call or send an email and discuss it with him. I've used Mike's bullets in a 300 H&H and a 338 Win Mag with excellent results. I know neither of these produce the velocity of the RUM, but I'm a believer in the North Forks.

 

[Frankie 2 Times]

Allen,
I didn't take it that way and was not offended by your comments. I was mearly stating that I an a firm believer that if I couldn't accurately shoot a new rifle that it would not accompany me into the field until I could.

I too take what the gun manufacturers use in their "razzle dazzle" advertisements with a grain of salt. Its all part of the PR campaign to sell you their latest and greatist. Their in business to make money and if they can't sell it on merit, they'll coat it with glitter. We're all guilty of wanting bigger and better. I've been known to buy things that I really didn't need, but because I wanted something "better" than what I already own... which was fine to begin with.

Since you too are a 300 RUM user, what bullets would you recommend. I'm thinking if either TSXs, Fail Safes or A-Frames.

F2T

 

[700efi]

left handed models?

left handed models?

I to feel the pain of being left handed in search of rifles.

I bought the Ruger M77 Mark II l/h bolt in Stainless. I choose the 30-06 model. Granted this meets all the requirments but the Cal. but this gun has already proven worth every penny. gun tagged at almost 600 bucks, then a tick over 300 for the scope. Not a bad investment for a gun I feel should/will last a long, long time.

 

[AlleninAlaska]

Since you too are a 300 RUM user, what bullets would you recommend. I'm thinking if either TSXs, Fail Safes or A-Frames.

F2T

I only use mine for caribou at long distance so I use the 150 Swift Scirocco. If I were to use it for Moose or Brown/Grizzly Bear I would more than likely go with the Swift A-Frame 200 grain or the Nosler Partition 200 grain. I am partial too the Noslers and use them quite regularly in other cartridges that I have. The reason for the 200 grain choice is that it has very good Sectional Density and it will not be going so fast as to not be able to withstand the velocity of the 300 RUM.

 

[KatzMO]

Bullets for moose and grizzly

Bullets for moose and grizzly

You won't beat the accuracy and performance of the Swift A-Frame.

I have killed moose effectively with these.

Good Hunting,

KatzMO

 

[ob_1jr]

I personally used Barnes TSX 180 grain this last year out of my 300RUM. Dropped my moose in it's tracks. Of course, I could have used any other caliber above 243 for the same shot and had similar results (only about 100 yd shot). I chose the 300 RUM since I didn't have a rifle yet and wanted a decent all around gun. Obviously at the time I started looking at the 300 RUM, there was a lot of hype with it. I haven't regretted my investment though except for the price of ammo before I started to reload.