Arrow weight?

[DucksAndDogs]

What's a good all around weight for AK? I'm shooting a Z7 @ 70lbs and a 28" DL. I'm going to have some new arrows made and I'm looking for a good weight for all species up here. I plan to shoot field tips through a chronograph after I pick an arrow to figure out KE for 100gr points and 125gr points, but I want to make sure I start in the right ballpark when picking arrows.

Any input is greatly appreciated...

 

[akscotty]

i am shooting a z7extreme 74# 29in draw and a 430gr. arrow and that should be good for everything.

 

[AKDoug]

Anything in the 400 to 500 grain range is going to work. I hunt with a 420 grain arrow.

 

[DucksAndDogs]

I was thinking 400ish, good to know. Thanks!

 

[AKbowhunter]

my hunting arrows are usually 390 ish. I shoot 100 grain tips. right around 400 grain is a good rule of thumb. I dont mind staying on the lighter side of it to pick up some speed. A lot of times in a hunting situation you range the critter but before you get the shot off he takes a few steps....sometimes you dont get the opportunity to range...the extra speed gives me a little more forgiveness if i am a coule yards off on the distance i shoot it for. I know of guys with short draw lengths that hunt with 350 grain arrows....and they kill whatever they shoot. It is all about finding that balance of speed and kinetic energy...but remember accuracy and shot placement RULES!!!! A 7mm-08 with a 140 grain bullet will kill a moose or bear just as dead as a 375H&H,,,,with the right shot placement. A 400 grain arrow going about 270 to 280 fps is like the good ole 30-06......a great choce that will get it done with vitually any animal in North America. A 430 grain arrow going 320 fps out of a Monster bow at 70+ pounds is like the 340 Weatherby...lol a lot more energy and speed...not as comfortable to draw..and you may give up some accuracy shooting a large magnum....

just my opinion and sorry for the poor analogy. Harry

 

[DucksAndDogs]

I'm thinking if I can stay right at 400 and get close to 300fps, I should have the best of both worlds. I'm thinking the KE will be there and it's light enough to be forgiving. Thoughts?

 

[AKDoug]

My only thoughts are...don't get hung up on speed. Take two bows both shooting the same size arrows. One shoots 250 FPS, the other 300 FPS. Both guys judge a target at 40 yards when it's actually 45 yards. The 250FPS guy will hit 6.4 inches low...the 300 FPS guy will drop 4.29 inches. A difference of a whopping 2.1 inches. I don't know many guys that can even hold +/- 2" at 45 yards. Speed doesn't mean a hill of beans and it's a marketing ploy. Bows pushing over 300 fps are harder to tune and harder to shoot for new archers. Stick around 260, shoot the heaviest arrow you can get to get your bow down to 260fps and you will find it much easier to tune for broadheads and much more forgiving to small form changes.

 

[stickslinger]

You should have no problem 300 fps with a 400 gr. [email protected] 70lbs. Just remember that a lighter arrow will shoot faster at the bow but slows down a lot faster down range compared to the heavier arrow. If you go with a 400 gr. arrow and want more penetration for a brown bear just make sure you are shooting a good 2 blade broadhead.

 

[stick+string]

I shoot a 29.5" 460 grain Carbon Express at about 280 fps. I buy into the theory that "heavy" is more important than "fast" for big AK sized game.

 

[Spartan Gunner]

Take a look at arrow momentum

Take a look at arrow momentum

I read an interesting thread on another site speaking to momentum in units of slug feet as the true measure of penetration power of an arrow.

It changed my thinking about speed/energy and shifted my focus to attaining momentum.

Based on that, I have decided to build some 505gr arrows for my Katera at 70lbs & 29".

The Archer's Advantage software I used to come up with that combo estimates the speed on that arrow out of my setup to be about 277 f/s. with a momentum of .607 slug*ft/s (KE - 82.5 ft/lbs) at 45yds. I am looking forward to shooting one of them through a crono to double check the software.

Here is the link to the Momentum/KE information: http://archeryreport.com/2009/11/arrow-kinetic-energy-momentum-archer/

If folks who are better at math and physics than I am could take a look to see that its correct, that would be great.


If all of the math is correct...that arrow should be a freight train.

 

[Spartan Gunner]

Wow...a very complex physics proposition it seems

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=195119&page=2

 

[schmidty_dog]

This page might help you out figuring arrow weights with everything considered.

http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_4.htm

Its not bad info for those interested, but their calculator only uses arrows they sell. There are some good charts on their website too. Hope this helps.

 

[schmidty_dog]

my hunting arrows are usually 390 ish. I shoot 100 grain tips. right around 400 grain is a good rule of thumb. I dont mind staying on the lighter side of it to pick up some speed. A lot of times in a hunting situation you range the critter but before you get the shot off he takes a few steps....sometimes you dont get the opportunity to range...the extra speed gives me a little more forgiveness if i am a coule yards off on the distance i shoot it for. I know of guys with short draw lengths that hunt with 350 grain arrows....and they kill whatever they shoot. It is all about finding that balance of speed and kinetic energy...but remember accuracy and shot placement RULES!!!! A 7mm-08 with a 140 grain bullet will kill a moose or bear just as dead as a 375H&H,,,,with the right shot placement. A 400 grain arrow going about 270 to 280 fps is like the good ole 30-06......a great choce that will get it done with vitually any animal in North America. A 430 grain arrow going 320 fps out of a Monster bow at 70+ pounds is like the 340 Weatherby...lol a lot more energy and speed...not as comfortable to draw..and you may give up some accuracy shooting a large magnum....

just my opinion and sorry for the poor analogy. Harry

I thought it was a great analogy!!! Good job explaining that.

 

[akscotty]

let me know how that works out spartan gunner it says my momentum is .573 and 85.9ke

 

[wiso_67]

I prefer shooting a heavier arrow I dont care to much about how fast the arrow fly's as long as it fly's true and straight. I shoot a hoyt at 58 lb with 2315 30 inch (yes I am an aluminum guy) with a 125 grain tip, and I have killed moose. griz, and caribou

My recurve 51 lb black widow 30 inch carbon express, 100 grain brass insert 125 grain tip right around 550 grains and hits like a brick

 

[ibohnt]

Interesting thoughts on arrow speed. I've always found a well placed sharp broadhead to be much more important than how fast the arrow is going. I'll gladly give up some speed in favor of some weight, penetration, penetration, penetration. Note Wisos' recurve setup a touch over 10 grains per pound, a perfect balance between speed and weight.

 

[AKbowhunter]

i hear all the arguments about HEAVY arrows and PENETRATION PENETRATION.......I guess my qestion is HOW MUCH PENETRATION do you need????? my 390 grain arrow will blow right through a moose, bear, and all other Alaskan game (i havent tested this on bison yet) to me accuracy is king first. I have killed moose, bear, and caribou. Part of accuracy is forgiveness...shooting 280 fps is MUCH more forgiving than 230 fps.....I know i used to hunt with a bow that shot 230 fps...on medium sized game you had better be within 2 yards or you would have a less than desireable hit at around 40 yards, at 280 fps i could be up to 4 to 5 yards off distance and will still be in the lungs.

I guess the main thing is that we hunters have the discipline to limit ourslves to our EFFECTIVE ethical hunting range, and by that i mean, if you can keep your arrows in about a 8 inch group at 60 yards and i mean 6 arrows and they ALL are in that group then that would be a decent standard to go by...i watch many people shooting recurves and they can hardly keep a consistant 16 inch group at 20 yards.....some cant pass the the shooting profienciency test by by fish and game, so they take the test with a compound then go hunt with their recurve....just not right. I have also seen guys shooting compound bows and and at 40 yards they couldnt hit a basketball consistantly....their effective range would probably be 30 yards or under. just know your ability, and have some self control...and yes the same applies to rifle hunters.

 

[stickslinger]

i hear all the arguments about HEAVY arrows and PENETRATION PENETRATION.......I guess my qestion is HOW MUCH PENETRATION do you need????? my 390 grain arrow will blow right through a moose, bear, and all other Alaskan game (i havent tested this on bison yet) to me accuracy is king first. I have killed moose, bear, and caribou. Part of accuracy is forgiveness...shooting 280 fps is MUCH more forgiving than 230 fps.....I know i used to hunt with a bow that shot 230 fps...on medium sized game you had better be within 2 yards or you would have a less than desireable hit at around 40 yards, at 280 fps i could be up to 4 to 5 yards off distance and will still be in the lungs.

I guess the main thing is that we hunters have the discipline to limit ourslves to our EFFECTIVE ethical hunting range, and by that i mean, if you can keep your arrows in about a 8 inch group at 60 yards and i mean 6 arrows and they ALL are in that group then that would be a decent standard to go by...i watch many people shooting recurves and they can hardly keep a consistant 16 inch group at 20 yards.....some cant pass the the shooting profienciency test by by fish and game, so they take the test with a compound then go hunt with their recurve....just not right. I have also seen guys shooting compound bows and and at 40 yards they couldnt hit a basketball consistantly....their effective range would probably be 30 yards or under. just know your ability, and have some self control...and yes the same applies to rifle hunters.

You are correct you can kill anything with a well placed shot with any arrow. But sometimes things don't always happen like that even if you are shooting @ 20 yards with a compound. I would be much more comfortable shooting a 500 gr. arrow through a moose shoulder then a 350 gr. arrow. Not that i would ever plan on taking that shot, but like i said hunting is hunting. Arrow weight is only half of the penetration equation. FOC plays a huge part in arrow penetration. So even if you want to shoot a 350 gr. arrow you can still improve your arrow penetration by increasing your FOC. DR. ASHBY does a study where he gets a 40lb. bow to have more penetration then an 80lb. bow by using 31% F0C. http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Webpage.aspx?WebpageId=51

It is all personnel preference, the one thing you can't disagree with is that a heavier arrow makes a bow a lot quieter.

 

[blasterak]

I shoot a 470gr Easton FMJ. I like heavy arrows, they quiet the bow down considerably and hit hard.

 

[Erik in AK]

Draw weight doesn't kill.
Arrow velocity doesn't kill.
Neither does arrow weight.

Energy kills, or at least in the case of arrows, energy drives the broadhead that does the killing.

All else being equal, on any given bow there is a range of arrow shaft/broadhead combinations that will work for a given draw weight and length.

The lightest compatible arrow will leave the bow the fastest AND it may also carry the most ke at 25 yards but it will also bleed that ke off the fastest as it decellerates.

The heaviest compatible arrow will leave the bow the slowest AND it may also carry the most ke at 25 yards but it will also bleed that ke off the slowest as it decellerates.

And while arguing about theoretical minutia is good, clean interwebz fun, I'd suggest shooting whatever arrow/head combo that gives you the most consistent accuracy within your personal effective range...because what really, really kills, is shot placement.