Are Sea Lions Dangerous to Be Around?

[Patsfan54]

At the NPS areas I worked at, we had active bear control efforts. That included shotguns loaded with beanbags, and rubber pellets (amongst many others techniques). We'd go out and have a shooting match to see what Ranger can nail the most bears. And in a typical season the good shooters would rack up hundreds of hits. I can't shoot that many bears during hunting season! And I suspect that getting tagged by a beanbag/rubber round hurts like heck. And guess what, the bears still came back! My guess is old Yogi couldn't tell if my shotgun was loaded with a beanbag or a live round.

Yeah, but had you hit 'em with a slug that woulda learned 'em real good and quick like and and they wouldn't never come back 'gain. See they learned that getting stung a little by a bean bag is worth the reward of the food...small price to pay.

Plus, sea lions.

 

[mark knapp]

The behavior of wild critters at Brooks, McNeil, or Denali, which are all highly visited/impacted by humans is not the norm in remote backcountry areas that have not seen a lot of humans. Apples to oranges.
Wild critters get habituated to humans very quickly whenever they experience them, and they like what humans bring/leave behind. This includes hunters in wild remote areas. The fact that said hunters have guns, don't seem to matter much to them.

Hi Bob, I know it's apples and oranges that's why I find it so surprising that some people here don't think that game in Non-hunted areas like Brooks, McNeil and Denali behave differently than game in area's outside the parks, what I am calling open range. Never the less those are exactly the places the discussion has been about since the discussion was opened up.

I had assumed that when you used the acronym NPS you meant National Park System. I can only talk about National Parks up here because I haven't been to any others. That is the ALASKA OUTDOOR FORUMS so it's easy to assume you are talking about parks up here, but since your' user name is NorcalBob, I don't know what game or parks you are talking about.

 

[mark knapp]

take your bear banter to pm's. So sea lions!

There seem to be plenty of folks that want to talk about other things than sea lions specifically and the OP don't mind. I'm talking about game animals including sea lions. If I took my talk to the PMs, some people that have entered the discussion and seem to be interested would not get to follow the discussion.

You could skip them if you don't want to read those parts.

 

[mark knapp]

Just for the record I didn't find it confusing at all.
I interpreted it as a general statement that wasn't directed at anyone in particular.
Just my 2 cents!

If you act like its unlikely to happen because it rarely happens, you will most likely become a statistic

This is the one that I found confusing. He didn't use a quote or name and seems, to me to be talking to just one person, but we don't know who. In my post back to him I said "Please forgive me if I'm wrong"

If you guys aren't confused by it then God bless you. You are good mind readers.

I'm willing to let it go if you guys are.

 

[gunner]

Hi Bob, I know it's apples and oranges that's why I find it so surprising that some people here don't think that game in Non-hunted areas like Brooks, McNeil and Denali behave differently than game in area's outside the parks, what I am calling open range. Never the less those are exactly the places the discussion has been about since the discussion was opened up.

I had assumed that when you used the acronym NPS you meant National Park System. I can only talk about National Parks up here because I haven't been to any others. That is the ALASKA OUTDOOR FORUMS so it's easy to assume you are talking about parks up here, but since your' user name is NorcalBob, I don't know what game or parks you are talking about.

Mark,
Don't want to start a p ing contest because I certainly respect your opinion with your many years of experience. But can't help but finding it ironic that in an earlier post you point out that a brownie can move 30 miles in a day( which I know to be true), and then use areas like Brooks and Mcneil as unhunted populations. I am sure you see where I am going with this. Anyway, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. In a lighter note, someone once told me early in my guide career, if you know what a bear is going to do, you know more than he does.
Cheers!

 

[NorcalBob]

Well Mark, I was only responding to the absurd comment that I saw posted here. That we "have to hunt them to make them afraid of man". Sorry, but I'm a firm non-believer in that old folk story. Wild critters not habituated to persons are more scared of said persons than wild critters that are habituated. And that includes hunters carrying guns.
l'll repeat what I said earlier: Wild critters get habituated to humans very quickly whenever they experience them, and they like what humans bring/leave behind. This includes hunters in wild remote areas. The fact that said hunters have guns, don't seem to matter much to them.
The only thing hunting brings to the table, as Pat so aptly pointed out (including sea lions!), is that they learn real good when you put a slug in them and kill them and then they won't come back. But tourists travelling to areas like Brooks, Denali, and McNeil are going there to see lots of bears and not real fond of that solution.

 

[SmokeRoss]

Well Mark, I was only responding to the absurd comment that I saw posted here. That we "have to hunt them to make them afraid of man". Sorry, but I'm a firm non-believer in that old folk story. Wild critters not habituated to persons are more scared of said persons than wild critters that are habituated. And that includes hunters carrying guns.
l'll repeat what I said earlier: Wild critters get habituated to humans very quickly whenever they experience them, and they like what humans bring/leave behind. This includes hunters in wild remote areas. The fact that said hunters have guns, don't seem to matter much to them.
The only thing hunting brings to the table, as Pat so aptly pointed out (including sea lions!), is that they learn real good when you put a slug in them and kill them and then they won't come back. But tourists travelling to areas like Brooks, Denali, and McNeil are going there to see lots of bears and not real fond of that solution.

Back in my logging days on the Rez we chased them off by whatever means we had available. It worked. Tossing chunks of wood. Pelting them with rocks. Even chasing them. BTW, my dad used to shoot us a nice berry bear whenever we ran out. He plugged them with a Savage 99 in .22 Hi Power. That old rifle has sat in the gun safe for decades. My younger brother hunted wolves with it in Alaska back in the 80's. Recently I picked off a nice buck with it. One shot right in the neck. Done.

 

[4merguide]

It was so long ago that I read the article it's a bit vague now, but it basically stated that over time man has caused many species of animals to become much more nocturnal than they normally would have been.

 

[Daveinthebush]

This is my back yard. I've been here about 18 years. I am located on a funnel of land where the bears that follow the salmon stream have to go thru my yard. In that amount of time, I have had some issues. Mostly back when I had a dog. I have had some issues but never a break in. The bears don't care if I'm home. The cub last week was annoying as he had no fear of humans. I shot at one, one year that was in the back of the truck on Sept. 16th throwing my shrimp pots around. Last year I mixed up some shrimp bait and did not put it away properly. My fault! Someone ate 3 gallons of shrimp bait. In general, we don't bother each other. If I see someone a little aggressive bottle rockets usually change his mind. The bears come thru eating my blueberries, devils club berries and sometimes play with my archery targets. I have other pics of them smelling my deer. Once I went out and the brown bear target was turned 180 degrees and knocked off of his log base. I think that was a moose though as there were fresh tracks there. The brown bears were a little unnerving as I walked around the corner of the house and saw a cub first. I went in for the camera, in the same room as the rear window, where I felt it safer to take that photo. We just have a relationship that works. I have also had deer, coyotes, moose and lynx out there.

 

[4merguide]

Sounds like you have a real nice place over there Dave.

 

[NorcalBob]

Back in my logging days on the Rez we chased them off by whatever means we had available. It worked. Tossing chunks of wood. Pelting them with rocks. Even chasing them. BTW, my dad used to shoot us a nice berry bear whenever we ran out. He plugged them with a Savage 99 in .22 Hi Power. That old rifle has sat in the gun safe for decades. My younger brother hunted wolves with it in Alaska back in the 80's. Recently I picked off a nice buck with it. One shot right in the neck. Done.

Oh, we could always chase them off doing active things, including non-lethal rounds. Always 100% successful in that, it's easy The problem was we couldn't keep them from coming back eventually. When we did active bear control, at least one Ranger was armed with live rounds, just in case, their whole job was to make sure things didn't go FUBAR. Yogi didn't treat us any differently no matter which gun we were holding, and I don't think Yogi knew which gun had live rounds.

 

[Daveinthebush]

 

[Daveinthebush]

Sounds like you have a real nice place over there Dave.

Thanks! I love Valdez. Being able to retire here was a plus.

 

[SmokeRoss]

Oh, we could always chase them off doing active things, including non-lethal rounds. Always 100% successful in that, it's easy The problem was we couldn't keep them from coming back eventually. When we did active bear control, at least one Ranger was armed with live rounds, just in case, their whole job was to make sure things didn't go FUBAR. Yogi didn't treat us any differently no matter which gun we were holding, and I don't think Yogi knew which gun had live rounds.

We didn't have a 'Ranger" with live rounds backing us up when we chased them off our logging jobs. It was us and the bears. BTW, we never referred to them as 'Yogi' either. Our bears were 100% wild. We did learn to be more careful about how we interacted with them in June when they were mating. Much less predictable then.

 

[mark knapp]

Mark,
Don't want to start a p ing contest because I certainly respect your opinion with your many years of experience. But can't help but finding it ironic that in an earlier post you point out that a brownie can move 30 miles in a day( which I know to be true), and then use areas like Brooks and Mcneil as unhunted populations. I am sure you see where I am going with this. Anyway, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. In a lighter note, someone once told me early in my guide career, if you know what a bear is going to do, you know more than he does.
Cheers!

Hi gunner, Not at all. I don't mind answering constructive questions or clarifying my thoughts and writings.

To my way of thinking, game animals that are not in Parks like Brooks Camp and McNeil River have to move a lot more than bears and game that are in them because they are disturbed a lot more often. They are disturbed by all of the things a mentioned in prior posts. Also, the bears and game in the interior have to move more because it takes a lot more range to feed an animal than it does on the coast. Just for instance, one study stated bears on the coast number about 2 per square mile while bears in the interior number only number about 1 bear per fifty square miles.

Not so in coastal areas, they could move if they wanted to but for the most part, they don't need to. The land can support a lot more game so there is no need to move around as much. They have all they need in a much smaller area, those in the parks do not need to worry about disturbance from man.

I think, not only do animals in those areas know they can't be disturbed in sanctuary areas but they know when they are in them and when they are not, because they get treated differently. Many people think that game animals know when a hunting season is open and when it's not, me too. I think it's because they can hear people getting ready to hunt way early before daylight, driving cars and other motorized vehicles, the lights from vehicles and head lamps and the slamming of doors and clanks of metal on metal. None of those things happen when a season is closed and they don't happen in our parks.

 

[NorcalBob]

We didn't have a 'Ranger" with live rounds backing us up when we chased them off our logging jobs. It was us and the bears. BTW, we never referred to them as 'Yogi' either. Our bears were 100% wild. We did learn to be more careful about how we interacted with them in June when they were mating. Much less predictable then.

You loggers got bigger ones than us Rangers! NPS policy was on active bear control, there would be at least one Ranger armed with live rounds as their sole job. And in our ready room, we had a tally board of hits by Ranger and it said Yogi and had a cartoon of him and BooBoo raiding picnic baskets being chased by Ranger Smith. Leading hits Ranger got to put his picture over Smith's face!!!

 

[mark knapp]

Well Mark, I was only responding to the absurd comment that I saw posted here. That we "have to hunt them to make them afraid of man". Sorry, but I'm a firm non-believer in that old folk story. Wild critters not habituated to persons are more scared of said persons than wild critters that are habituated. And that includes hunters carrying guns.
l'll repeat what I said earlier: Wild critters get habituated to humans very quickly whenever they experience them, and they like what humans bring/leave behind. This includes hunters in wild remote areas. The fact that said hunters have guns, don't seem to matter much to them.
The only thing hunting brings to the table, as Pat so aptly pointed out (including sea lions!), is that they learn real good when you put a slug in them and kill them and then they won't come back. But tourists travelling to areas like Brooks, Denali, and McNeil are going there to see lots of bears and not real fond of that solution.

It's no problem, you and I seldom see eye to eye, but just so you know, I didn't say that either. What I said was, I think that, generally animals that are protected act differently than those that aren't. If you haven't noticed or it doesn't happen the same way where you have been, or you see it differently than I do, it's OK with me.

I write what I write to help others understand the things they see if I can, and I read to learn myself.

I have seen sea lions bail off of a rookery as soon as they hear a boat in hunted areas, I have also seen sea lion rookeries that you can drive a boat around all day and they just do what sea lions do when undisturbed. Those were sea lion sanctuary rookeries where you aren't allowed to disturb sea lions in any way.

I've also watched a cow and calf moose slip into the woods from the willows just before a jet boat came around the last curve of a river only to return back out onto the willow bar after the boat went around the next corner.

For me, that says all I need to know.

I wish for you the best.

 

[NorcalBob]

It's no problem, you and I seldom see eye to eye, but just so you know, I didn't say that either. What I said was, I think that, generally animals that are protected act differently than those that aren't. If you haven't noticed or it doesn't happen the same way where you have been, or you see it differently than I do, it's OK with me.

I write what I write to help others understand the things they see if I can, and I read to learn myself.

I have seen sea lions bail off of a rookery as soon as they hear a boat in hunted areas, I have also seen sea lion rookeries that you can drive a boat around all day and they just do what sea lions do when undisturbed. Those were sea lion sanctuary rookeries where you aren't allowed to disturb sea lions in any way.

I've also watched a cow and calf moose slip into the woods from the willows just before a jet boat came around the last curve of a river only to return back out onto the willow bar after the boat went around the next corner.

For me, that says all I need to know.

I wish for you the best.

It's all good Mark. And yep, I did know that you were not the person who actually said "we got to hunt them to respect man", or started this thread in that direction.
I know you have a lot of experience hunting and your insights are valuable there. But I also have a lot of experience in areas where hunting is not allowed, along with a lot of experience in areas where hunting is allowed. And the critter behavior I see is directly relatable to the level of habituation to man's presence and has nothing to do with whether or not hunting is allowed.

 

[4merguide]

Thanks! I love Valdez. Being able to retire here was a plus.

I bet! But that massive amount of snow you guys always seem to get has got to be a lot of work. I've lived in snow country pretty much all my life, but the older I get the less I like dealing with too much snow.....and I know you're a little older than me!

 

[bottom_dweller]

I’ve been a commercial diver in SE for 30 plus years. I have had many many run ins with lions. I have jabbed them in the belly with my geoduck stinger, been pinned on the bottom by a huge bull, and harassed by 7 at once pulling on my fins and hose. Most of the time they just scare the crap out of you because you are not expecting them. They come at you really fast! I have never been bitten, but I have gotten out of the water because of being harassed to the point of not being very productive. Sea lions don’t preclude me from making a jump but I don’t like it.