Are Sea Lions Dangerous to Be Around?

[mark knapp]

The idea that killing a wild animal somehow teaches the remaining wild animals to respect us has got to be the absolute purest example of human arrogance. As far as predator management goes; we are the single most abundant, prolific, dangerous, destructive, uncontrolled predator on the face of the Earth. Who controls us?

I have never had trouble with bears in camp except where bears are not hunted. I have never had trouble with bears in camp where they are hunted. It's a known fact that animals that are hunted act differently than animals that are not hunted. That's why they re-introduced wolves into Yellowstone, to make the elk wary enough to stay away from the rivers and allow the ecosystem to prosper.

We have not hunted (stalked and shot a bears) for years at or near our cabin. As a result they are no longer afraid of us. We can drive a boat right up to them, within bow range easily, and do it all the time. We also have a problem with bears at the cabin now.

If you want a clear example, just look at how the animals act that are hunted on open range and compare their' behavior to those that are in Denali N.P. Personally, I see a big difference. It is very challenging to get a nice bear on Kodiak Island not so at McNeil Or Brooks Camp where they are not hunted. There it would be very easy

We are predators, and we are the single most managed predator in the US, and most of the world (I can not speak for all of it, as I have not been there). There whole schools, universities, career plans and enforcement precincts who's only reason for existence is the management of us predators.

It seams to me, you are a consumptive user of our natural resources, and as a consumptive user you often have some off-the-wall-remarks to make. This is not an insult, or a criticism, only an observation.

 

[kasilofchrisn]

I have never had trouble with bears in camp except where bears are not hunted. I have never had trouble with bears in camp where they are hunted. It's a known fact that animals that are hunted act differently than animals that are not hunted. That's why they re-introduced wolves into Yellowstone, to make the elk wary enough to stay away from the rivers and allow the ecosystem to prosper.

We have not hunted (stalked and shot a bears) for years at or near our cabin. As a result they are no longer afraid of us. We can drive a boat right up to them, within bow range easily, and do it all the time. We also have a problem with bears at the cabin now.

If you want a clear example, just look at how the animals act that are hunted on open range and compare their' behavior to those that are in Denali N.P. Personally, I see a big difference. It is very challenging to get a nice bear on Kodiak Island not so at McNeil Or Brooks Camp where they are not hunted. There it would be very easy

We are predators, and we are the single most managed predator in the US, and most of the world (I can not speak for all of it, as I have not been there). There whole schools, universities, career plans and enforcement precincts who's only reason for existence is the management of us predators.

It seams to me, you are a consumptive user of our natural resources, and as a consumptive user you often have some off-the-wall-remarks to make. This is not an insult, or a criticism, only an observation.

I too have noticed this phenomenon.
In areas where wildlife are hunted they are definitely more wary of humans.
But when I'm out on parts of the wildlife refuge where they are not allowed to be hunted the black bears and other critters mindlessly wander down the road paying no mind to anybody.

 

[kasilofchrisn]

I've never had an issue with a sea lion but I can say they do make a pretty darn good soup!
Got invited to an elders house for Russian New Year once.
The main course was the sea lion soup. I was hesitant to try it but my ex decided she wanted to try some and I better do it too.
It tasted surprisingly good.
Not sure where the sealion in question came from but I'm sure it was a subsistence hunt somewhere here on the Kenai Peninsula.

 

[4merguide]

There's a reason why most game animals that have been around humans throughout the ages have come to fear them.

 

[urbanhillbilly]

And there’s plenty of laws, rules, morals, governing authorities, and so forth “controlling”what we as humans can and cannot do.

 

[Autistic_Deer_Hunter]

No, the threat level is not worth worrying about...but the answer to all your questions is "yes". They weigh about 1000# and can board your boat in the blink of an eye, if they want to. Don't ever feed them or do anything to make them more interested in you, and if there's one in the vacinity don't splash your hands around over the side. If you're fishing and one persists in being interested in your activity it's best to pickup and move somewhere else.

Right, when one was near I noped out and moved on
Thanks for the advice

 

[Autistic_Deer_Hunter]

Sounds like one heck of a trip to remember! Wish I had some insight for you, but I don’t. Thanks for sharing this

I have pictures I'm willing to share

 

[iofthetaiga]

I have never had trouble with bears in camp except where bears are not hunted. I have never had trouble with bears in camp where they are hunted.

I'm sure that's true. Whereas i have only had trouble with bears where they get the snot hunted out of them...with dogs. And here i consider myself lucky to see one, so 🤷‍♂️.

 

[SmokeRoss]

I have never had trouble with bears in camp except where bears are not hunted. I have never had trouble with bears in camp where they are hunted. It's a known fact that animals that are hunted act differently than animals that are not hunted. That's why they re-introduced wolves into Yellowstone, to make the elk wary enough to stay away from the rivers and allow the ecosystem to prosper.

We have not hunted (stalked and shot a bears) for years at or near our cabin. As a result they are no longer afraid of us. We can drive a boat right up to them, within bow range easily, and do it all the time. We also have a problem with bears at the cabin now.

If you want a clear example, just look at how the animals act that are hunted on open range and compare their' behavior to those that are in Denali N.P. Personally, I see a big difference. It is very challenging to get a nice bear on Kodiak Island not so at McNeil Or Brooks Camp where they are not hunted. There it would be very easy

We are predators, and we are the single most managed predator in the US, and most of the world (I can not speak for all of it, as I have not been there). There whole schools, universities, career plans and enforcement precincts who's only reason for existence is the management of us predators.

It seams to me, you are a consumptive user of our natural resources, and as a consumptive user you often have some off-the-wall-remarks to make. This is not an insult, or a criticism, only an observation.

I agree. Where have I been chased by moose???? In SOLDOTNA.

 

[kwackkillncrew]

share the pictures! One november we took the zodiak down to whittier and the harbor and passage was iced up. We wanted to get out 4 miles or so to our duckhunting spot so we followed a big boat out that was breaking the ice. We got out about 2 miles and decided it wasnt a good idea because the ice was going to freeze up again and didnt think breaking ice with a zodiak was a good idea. We looked back and there were 3 or 4 sea lions swimming right behind us which was a little unnerving. That sealed the deal on running back to the harbor quick as we could. We figured either the ice was going to get us or the lions were going to get us. You feel really small in a zodiak in the middle of passage canal.

 

[mark knapp]

I'm sure that's true. Whereas i have only had trouble with bears where they get the snot hunted out of them...with dogs. And here i consider myself lucky to see one, so 🤷‍♂️.

I'm talking brown bears, and I assume you are talking black bears because it is not legal to hunt brown bears with a dog and it is not generally done. The two bears are completely different animals, behaviorally (and otherwise) and should not be considered the same. Black bears are brats and THE most likely to get into trouble with humans. I should have said I was talking about brown bears.

I see lots of bears, black, brown and grizzly annually, but I go out where I'm sure to see some. I've seen up to 28 brown bears in one day and never had trouble with them. I saw 11 black bears on one float trip (just a fishing trip, not hunting) never had trouble with them either (and we cook in camp). All these were hunted bears

On the contrary, they had to take the automatic doors off of the Eielson Visitor center in Denali Nat. Park because grizzly bears learned to trip the motion sensor and go inside while people were there. These bears were not hunted.

There are lots of black and grizzly bears in the Tanana Valley and with some looking, you could see lots.

I wonder if your bears just associate danger with the dogs and not the humans if dogs are used so extensively for hunting. If you don't have a bunch of noisy, lunging blue tics you may be seen as an easy target.

 

[iofthetaiga]

I think lots of humans confuse coincidence and loose correlation with causation...and selectively seek examples that appear to support their beliefs.

 

[Chez]

If you act like its unlikely to happen because it rarely happens, you will most likely become a statistic

 

[NRick]

The human population is the one that has exploded. Maybe if more of us got "harvested" we might learn some respect?

I think Russia has that covered.

 

[iofthetaiga]

If you act like its unlikely to happen because it rarely happens, you will most likely become a statistic

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.

 

[mark knapp]

I think lots of humans confuse coincidence and loose correlation with causation...and selectively seek examples that appear to support their beliefs.

I believe in knowledge, experience and Modern Wildlife Management. I have learned you don't believe in "Modern Wildlife Management" so I won't ask you to believe in this.

There are just too many examples for it to be just coincidence.

 

[mark knapp]

If you act like its unlikely to happen because it rarely happens, you will most likely become a statistic

You seem to be writing to me, if not, I apologize, please use a name or a quote next time to cut down on the confusion.

If you are talking to me, you say what you say about me without knowing anything about me. Starting at age 24 I have spent a very large portion of my life in tents in bear country while bears are not hibernating. I've walked thousands of miles in bear country and know how to live in bear country. I'm 61 now and have been around literally thousands of bears.

To the contrary I am aware of what can happen to people in bear country and have learned from that and structure my activities in bear country accordingly. It is not safe to be afraid of bears but it is not safe to not respect them.

 

[iofthetaiga]

I think lots of humans confuse coincidence and loose correlation with causation...and selectively seek examples that appear to support their beliefs.

I believe in knowledge, experience and Modern Wildlife Management. I have learned you don't believe in "Modern Wildlife Management" so I won't ask you to believe in this.

There are just too many examples for it to be just coincidence.

Any "modern" wildlife biologist worth her/his salt will say that a person's personal beliefs have no place in science based management decisions. Such biologist would also point out that a given conclusion premised upon anecdotal examples can not be held to be scientifically valid, especially if there are equally as many anecdotal examples contradicting said conclusion.

It is not safe to be afraid of bears but it is not safe to not respect them.

Absolutely true. Also equally true of sealions. Which is why before it was suggested that we kill them so they would respect us, I noted the following:

No, the threat level is not worth worrying about...but the answer to all your questions is "yes". They weigh about 1000# and can board your boat in the blink of an eye, if they want to. Don't ever feed them or do anything to make them more interested in you, and if there's one in the vicinity don't splash your hands around over the side. If you're fishing and one persists in being interested in your activity it's best to pickup and move somewhere else.

 

[kenaibow fan]

So I have to say the whole argument about behaviors of a hunted versus none hunted animal is interesting. How do hunted animals pass on the “fear” of humans if they are dead? Bears specifically in this case are not pack animals as far as I know, so how do they pass that avoidance behavior on to other bears? How do you account for “dinner bell” bears? I’ve heard plenty of first hand accounts of people shooting moose, deer or caribou and bears come running. I have worked in places where bears are hunted and not hunted and the only thing that comes to mind that alters their behavior is if the bear perceives you as a threat. Then they decide fight or flight.

 

[mark knapp]

Any "modern" wildlife biologist worth her/his salt will say that a person's personal beliefs have no place in science based management decisions. Such biologist would also point out that a given conclusion premised upon anecdotal examples can not be held to be scientifically valid, especially if there are equally as many anecdotal examples contradicting said conclusion.



Absolutely true. Also equally true of sealions. Which is why before it was suggested that we kill them so they would respect us, I noted the following:

What I'm trying to tell you is that I am not telling you anecdotes. What I'm trying to say is, it is basic knowledge. I am friends with many biologists and enforcement agents and it's basic knowledge to them. I'm pretty sure it's taught. I will check with one of them in the next day or too and report back to you.

How many biologists do you know? How do you know what they think? I know a few and have spoken to them at length about things like this.