Am I nuts??

[akjw7]

I appear to be the only person that thinks it's insane to allow a 13 year old girl to date an 18 year old guy...am I nuts?

I also appear to be the only person that thinks it's beyond insane to let the same girl now 14 to get engaged to the guy that is 19 now...am I nuts?

of course my wife agrees with me, but nobody else involved including both sets of parents! (wife's half sister is the girl in question)

makes me want to fly down there and deliver a care package to the special guy and both sets of parents....

I'm going to be pissed if he breaks her young heart, but worse than that is if she throws away her future over this guy. The girl is extremely bright and talented - likely would have a full ride to a great school if she keeps on track for another couple years.

 

[Vince]

I appear to be the only person that thinks it's insane to allow a 13 year old girl to date an 18 year old guy...am I nuts?

I also appear to be the only person that thinks it's beyond insane to let the same girl now 14 to get engaged to the guy that is 19 now...am I nuts?

of course my wife agrees with me, but nobody else involved including both sets of parents! (wife's half sister is the girl in question)

makes me want to fly down there and deliver a care package to the special guy and both sets of parents....

oh i agree 100%... your nuts but your also correct.

 

[fullkurl]

Just four years ago this girl turned ten years old.
Oy.

You're not nuts, they are....every last one of 'em.

 

[akjw7]

thanks Vince!

I know it was a loaded question around here as many if not all of us have very similar values. actually very interested
to hear from co2ak - I know you work with young girls.

mom really screwed up allowing them to even date - but then she went way way beyond - she lets him spend the night at their house, he went on vacation with them and her with his family. all parents think it's fine! I mean maybe the odds are ok that one sucker parent will buy in but all four????

This girl is very religious, straight-A student, many extracurricular activities and swears she is not having sex. Seems to be the only thing that changes if they eventually get married. So that's my suggestion for the "why" behind it all. The girl definitely can't give a reason for it.

Mom has told my wife that as long as the girl finishes school (high school) then they can do what they want. Wife yelled at her and said "she graduates at 17, if you give her permission to get married before she is 18 I'm going to fly down there and hurt you!"

 

[sayak]

You're not nuts, but maybe you should harvest his.

 

[Vince]

Jerimy... #one...
all kidding aside...

#two
as my two oldest daughters NOW 12 and 14 were molested at the aged of 8 and 10 by their step father in eagle river.. some of this truly has a sore point with me.

speak your mind to the parents and the kids... don't be coy about it.. get it done.

 

[littleman81]

You are not nuts man (well, maybe....but not in regards to this)! 14???? How many 14 year old girls and 18 year old boys do you know that are even a tenth mature enough for marriage?? Heck when I was 18 there is NO WAY I would have been ready for that and I was pretty independant. Heck at 27 when I got married I don't think I was ready in some ways.

It is not a matter of IF, but WHEN he breaks her heart. Everything is stacked against them. Look at statistics on folks that get married in their teen years...they rarely stay together (I know there are exceptions, I'm talking in general). Also, her proclamation of innocense....well, I wouldn't buy that either since you stated they have "sleepovers" and, well, 18 year old boys and.....

Sadly, he probably has her convinced that he will love her forever and they will grow old together and yadayadayada...I think us guys can at least get some credit for being very convincing at times, especially when a girl is blindly in love and we really want something

They will overlook a lot of faults just because they are so head over heals (just ask my wife, I am a walking example of this).

I think your wife has it right...I'm glad someone is standing up for this young lady's future, even if those closest to her are not. Let us know if we need to make a "trip outside" to help you with what Sayak was eluding to.

 

[akjw7]

thanks for that Vince, sincerely.

My wife has said some to the girl (she is more rational than mom believe it or not - but that's relative) since I am kind of on the outside of their family.

I say all four parents but the girls parents aren't together and dad is mostly not involved - it's just mom and she is on her second batch of teenagers and is either losing her mind or just wants to be done with kids.

Unfortunately it's been allowed to go on for over a year - should never have gotten started in the first place.

 

[Brian M]

As a teacher, I periodically will witness a freshman-senior relationship. Without exception, I have never seen one work well. That is not to say that a 3-4 year age difference is a deal killer - clearly it is not at a later stage in life - but in the teen years there is nothing in common between a 14 year old girl and an 18 year old young man. There are legal issues here as well, but unfortunately I think those only kick in when intercourse is involved.

Tough deal, for sure.

 

[danattherock]

Yeah, statutory rape rings a bell. I knew lots of guys in prison that were familiar with the term. I was a prison guard for 5 years in case you are wondering how I knew guys in prison. Ha ha..


This situation (if sex was involved) would be a 2nd degree offense by Alaska state law.


Alaska

§ 11. 41. 434

§ 11. 41. 436

§ 11. 41. 440

First-degree sexual abuse of a minor for someone age 16 or older to engage in sexual penetration with someone under age 13.

Second-degree sexual abuse of a minor for someone age 16 or older to engage in sexual penetration with someone who is age 13, 14, or 15 and at least three years younger than the offender.

Fourth-degree sexual abuse of a minor for someone under age 16 to engage in sexual penetration with someone under age 13 and at least three years younger.

Up to 30 years in prison

Up to 10 years in prison

Up to one year in prison


From...

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-r-0376.htm

 

[akjw7]

that's pretty close to the deal Brian. (although I think he was out of high school when she was a freshman)

If they were older, and preferably if she were done with college, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I looked up Texas law and it appears to specify penetration with other than a spouse ... so one get out of jail free card for him if there is no intercourse and another if somehow he convinces the girl and mom to let them get married.

Only points I have for the girl are that she needs to maintain her goals for school and college and that guys will say ANYTHING.

I'm hoping someone can help me with some more logical points.

I intend to ask who had the idea to get engaged and if she's talked to her church at all. Not sure where else to take it. Other than the obvious 'trip' with the lad.

any arguments against the boyfriend won't hold water - she is totally in love and as littleman mentioned won't see any faults with him.

 

[Erik in AK]

It's frustrating as hell to have weak parents in your family. Watching nieces, nephews or the children of cousins being constantly coddled or permitted to set themselves on a path towards self destruction because mommy wants to be their friend instead of their mother. (it's not always the mom, just usually)

It's your call, but I'd say something. I have in the past and sometimes it falls on deaf ears, sometimes not.

Best of luck

 

[LuJon]

I don't think you are crazy. It is a real challenge to get to the root of a situation like this. I am almost certainly different than most anyone on this board in that I met my wife on the school bus when we were 14 and 15 years old. She is a year younger than me and we did the whole promise ring at 15/16 followed by an engagement ring at 17/18 and married at 18/19. We started down this road 15 years ago and are extremely happy today.

I have a hard time seeing what an 18 year old would find in a 13 year old but I certainly can't say that I believe a 14 year old kid can't know what love is. That would be pretty hypocritical considering my own history.

 

[baitem907]

You're not nuts at all. I have a 14 year old daughter and am dumbfounded by this. How in the heck can a parent even think that this is right?? I would defiantly say something and soon.

 

[akjw7]

Thanks LuJon, I think my wife and I were both 18 when we met and married a year later - 15 years ago too, so I hear what you're saying.

I just can't fathom anything but zero tolerance for an 18 year old guy who is seeking a relationship with a 13 year old girl. Heck I have a hard time even wrapping my head around a 13 year old dating kids her own age!!!

I think the unfortunate root of the situation is as Erik alluded to, lousy parenting - this relationship flat out should not have happened.

But, it did.

So I think the best I can do is what I told her today. I cautioned her to go slow - keep excelling in school and stick to her college plans. If things are still working out in 3 or 4 years when she turns 18 and she thinks they need to rush into marriage - so be it nobody can stop them, but I'd much rather see her finish college and have an idea where her life was headed first.

the really ugly thing about this is that the whole situation, to me anyway, smacks of some form of coercion or Stockholm Syndrome or the kind of power adults have over kids in abusive situations. I feel confident that's really not the case here, but 18 and 13 just doesn't seem natural and so I guess that automatically generates a creepy wrongness about it.

I blame it all on the twilight books.:idea:

 

[LuJon]

It would be interesting to watch how the mom and boyfriend interact. It sounds like he is close with the family. Generally this make a confusing situation for the daughter in that she confuses her bf with "family". The closer he is with his girlfriends mom the more likely she is to get involved with their problems. Mom will likely get brought in to mediate issues which is NOT a good thing. Issues in childhood relationships should either be worked out between the kids or they should break up! A parent of kids that age needs to avoid becoming close to anyone she is in a relationship with. Becoming close with him makes the daughter feel as if she is hurting her parents by dumping a guy who is not "right" for her. A well adjusted girl should be able to dump a guy in a heartbeat and be just fine on her own.

 

[akjw7]

Interesting observations. I suspect you are correct about the guy being close to the family.

Definitely a problem if mom is involved in relationship problems between the two, however I think she would dump him in a heartbeat if she felt it necessary.

As blinded and dumbstruck by love as this girl is, I actually think the girl is smarter than the mom, which is of course also part of the problem because she can manipulate mom. That is made worse because mom is lazy with lots of her own problems and is burned out after 30+ years of raising kids.

Wife told me yesterday that a friend of a friend of a friend (or something like that) has a 13 year old girl pregnant by a 12 boy...so good grief I guess things can always be worse. :banghead:

 

[Tombo]

They have a term for a 19 year old who would be interested in a 15 year old - PREDATOR!

 

[kodiakrain]

You're definitely not Nuts,

As you mention she is both Very Religious, and a Straight A student I wonder if you can contact any spiritual leaders, there's always a youth group leader or senior leader at her church that should have a lot of sway in helping her think through what is going on there, also maybe at her school, a Career Guidance Counselor type who would have her respect even more than she respects her own Mom or other relatives, You Know, see if you could let them know if they don't already what is happening?

I know not all religious leaders have their act together but some really do. I did a lot of Youth Leading in the past, and I would just about assure you, if she is really into religion, she will have a relationship with a leader somewhere that is much stronger as far as listening to wise counsel than anyone expects. They tell all their real struggles to Youth Leaders and trust them strongly, hopefully hers can help. I can't imagine one that would know about this and approve of it. Who knows, it's worth a try

I know somebody of that caliber at her age would tend to hide something she knew was not right from her Youth Leader or Favorite Teacher, but if approached by them she would be apt to really listen to other than her own parents or relatives.

Just a thought you might be able to approach them somehow for an outside the family craziness counsel for the young girl caught up by dream of being mature before she really is.

PS don't assume she is blinded by sex, as quite a few these days are running really high standards in that area and if she is holding out (with her reputation with church friends holding her to it) but you come in accusing her of that she'll probably completely block you out for assuming she is that foolish. Really they aren't all doing that these days. Don't risk losing her respect by accusation but appeal to her higher standards, she probably really wants to be that mature so go there for her treat her as if she is

 

[akjw7]

great advice kodiak - actually her church was my first thought, but more towards asking her if she has talked with someone. Not taking the step to call them myself, but it's a worthy suggestion. thanks!