4 day Razor Clam dig

[bottom_dweller]

I wonder how that works? In our geoduck fishery, the sample is taken on the weekend and is put on a plane to Anchorage. Seems like the DEC lab is in Palmer? The test from ,what I gather, involves blending up the geoduck minus shell. The blended whole clam is then injected into a mouse or mice and the amount of time that it takes for the mouse to die is somehow put into an equation. This “number” must be below 80. We usually get the results by Tuesday afternoon and if it is below 80 we get to harvest Wednesday and Thursday of that week. Do they test the beaches up there? Maybe they are just naturally cold beaches and testing is moot?

 

[4merguide]

Comparing a migrating salmon to clams that basically live where they are born is a bit of a stretch. What would be more accurate is comparing clams to fish that live in a closed system such as lake trout in Hidden Lake.

If you’re referring to what I said, of course there is a big difference between king salmon and razor clams. It was an example of somewhat questionable management policies, which could apply to other species as well. Another one off the top of my head was when we had a severe moose winter kill here on the Kenai somewhere around 15 years ago or so. Out of my 40 years here I’d never seen so many moose starve to death. There was a lot of public input about closing moose season that year. A coworker of mine ran into a F&G officer at the local store and questioned him about it. He said they were “considering” it which gave many of us hope. But here again, they went ahead and opened the season anyway. I guess the moose population is doing “ok” but my point was that it would have seemed to be a prime time for an emergency closure. Again, it’s just them seeming to not err on the side of caution that I’m talking about, which could include your example of Hidden Lake lakers as well. I’m sorry, but going off of their own words, imo, this clam opening doesn’t make any sense other than make a few clam diggers happy. And that’s coming from a guy who’s family enjoys digging clams as much as we enjoy eating them. As much as I would like to, I won’t be digging those clams just like I haven’t tried to catch a Kenai king for about 20 years.

 

[kasilofchrisn]

I wonder how many people will end up in the ER from PSP.

I'm guessing zero.
They test those beaches regularly when there are clam openings.

 

[SmokeRoss]

If you’re referring to what I said, of course there is a big difference between king salmon and razor clams. It was an example of somewhat questionable management policies, which could apply to other species as well. Another one off the top of my head was when we had a severe moose winter kill here on the Kenai somewhere around 15 years ago or so. Out of my 40 years here I’d never seen so many moose starve to death. There was a lot of public input about closing moose season that year. A coworker of mine ran into a F&G officer at the local store and questioned him about it. He said they were “considering” it which gave many of us hope. But here again, they went ahead and opened the season anyway. I guess the moose population is doing “ok” but my point was that it would have seemed to be a prime time for an emergency closure. Again, it’s just them seeming to not err on the side of caution that I’m talking about, which could include your example of Hidden Lake lakers as well. I’m sorry, but going off of their own words, imo, this clam opening doesn’t make any sense other than make a few clam diggers happy. And that’s coming from a guy who’s family enjoys digging clams as much as we enjoy eating them. As much as I would like to, I won’t be digging those clams just like I haven’t tried to catch a Kenai king for about 20 years.

This is another one of those winters. Not many survivors out north. It's especially bad when you consider that the previous winter wasn't kind to the moose either.

 

[4merguide]

This is another one of those winters. Not many survivors out north. It's especially bad when you consider that the previous winter wasn't kind to the moose either.

That's what I've heard. You guys always get so much more snow out north. Surprisingly the moose we had around here all winter just outside of Soldotna all seemed fairly healthy.

 

[SmokeRoss]

That's what I've heard. You guys always get so much more snow out north. Surprisingly the moose we had around here all winter just outside of Soldotna all seemed fairly healthy.

They were dropping like flies out north. I was falling a lot of birch trees for them and managed to help a few of them. Have a cow with 2 calves hanging out now. The only moose I have seen in the area in over a month.

 

[4merguide]

Maybe so.
But I've always used a clam shovel or a clam gun.
I just don't think using your hands would be that effective but I guess for some people maybe that would help limit their take anyway.
They might not get there full 15.

I guess some people use a shovel all the way to the clam, but I've always just used the shovel for one, maybe two shovel fulls, then used my hands the rest of the way to the clam.

 

[4merguide]

It's waaaay more fun to just use your hands. Makes it sporting, as the clams get away more often than not. And for such a small limit? That's totally the way I go. No shovel or clam gun needed!

Wow Brian.... my hands take a beating as it is because I only use the shovel minimally, but to dig with your hands from the surface all the way to the clam, well that's pretty aggressive hand digging!

 

[mark knapp]

I wonder how many people will end up in the ER from PSP.

Not sure why you'd think that would be a problem. Clam beaches are always tested, I'm sure that one will be too, especially.

 

[SmokeRoss]

Wow Brian.... my hands take a beating as it is because I only use the shovel minimally, but to dig with your hands from the surface all the way to the clam, well that's pretty aggressive hand digging!

Used to dig by hand in the PNW a lot. The beaches were sandy so the digging was easy. No broken clams.

 

[kasilofchrisn]

Sure hand digging is possible but not as effective as using the proper tools.
I suppose there's also the possibility that some people will just use a regular shovel they have lying around.
Of course we all know this results in a lot more broken clams but it's likely a lot of people don't care or just don't know the difference.

 

[NRick]

Not sure why you'd think that would be a problem. Clam beaches are always tested, I'm sure that one will be too, especially.

I don't believe that is true. From a 2019 state press release:

June 26, 2019 ANCHORAGE —High levels of algal toxins that can lead to paralytic shellfish poisoning (PSP) are being identified in non-commercially harvested shellfish from numerous Alaska communities. Recreational gatherers should be cautious of the dangers of PSP from shellfish harvested on beaches across Alaska. There are NO beaches that are certified or designated as "safe" beaches for shellfish harvesting in Alaska. Non-commercially harvested shellfish may contain paralytic shellfish toxins that, if ingested, can cause death. Anyone consuming non-commercial shellfish does so at his or her own risk. (bolding was me)

It goes on to say:

Commercially harvested shellfish, however, are considered safe to consume. This is because commercial harvesters are required by the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation to have products regularly tested for toxins that can cause PSP.

In otherwords, the commercial guys have to get their clams tested because the state doesn't collect clams for testing. In the past, it appeared to me that the state determines clams from a particular beach aren't safe after someone ends up in the hospital.

 

[mark knapp]

I don't believe that is true. From a 2019 state press release:

June 26, 2019 ANCHORAGE —High levels of algal toxins that can lead to paralytic shellfish poisoning (PSP) are being identified in non-commercially harvested shellfish from numerous Alaska communities. Recreational gatherers should be cautious of the dangers of PSP from shellfish harvested on beaches across Alaska. There are NO beaches that are certified or designated as "safe" beaches for shellfish harvesting in Alaska. Non-commercially harvested shellfish may contain paralytic shellfish toxins that, if ingested, can cause death. Anyone consuming non-commercial shellfish does so at his or her own risk. (bolding was me)

It goes on to say:

Commercially harvested shellfish, however, are considered safe to consume. This is because commercial harvesters are required by the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation to have products regularly tested for toxins that can cause PSP.

In otherwords, the commercial guys have to get their clams tested because the state doesn't collect clams for testing. In the past, it appeared to me that the state determines clams from a particular beach aren't safe after someone ends up in the hospital.

They never certify any beach as "safe" because, that transfers the liability to them. But that doesn't mean the beaches are not tested. It's always been my understanding that popular recreational clamming beaches are tested every two weeks. Especially on the road system. "Wild" beaches that are only dug at occasionally have always been "clam at your own risk"

In commercial beaches, the liability is on the commercial diggers, that's why they have to have the testing done.

These are all just things I've understood for a while. I'm not even sure that I know where.

I am as sure as I can be that if the State opens up the beaches we are talking about here, those beaches will be tested first. It would be stupid for them to open the beaches but not have them tested first. Can you imagine the liability they would have to shoulder. Why would they do that. Especially when the testing is so easy to get done.

I have a call into them I'll let you know what I find out.

 

[CapnMike]

I don't think they test the Eastside beaches now. I know they didn't 20 years ago.

 

[Patsfan54]

ADFG doesn’t do psp testing on State beaches. According to an informational pamphlet on Cook Inlet Razor Clams "The State of Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation does not test razor clams on eastside beaches, but there has been no documented case of PSP or DA from eating properly-cleaned razor clams dug from Kenai Peninsula beaches."

Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation (ADEC) has some information on PSP:

"There are no beaches that are certified or designated as "safe" beaches for shellfish harvesting in Alaska. All recreationally-harvested shellfish — including clams, mussels, oysters, geoducks, and scallops — may contain paralytic shellfish toxin (PST) that, if ingested, can cause death."

https://dec.alaska.gov/eh/fss/shellfish/recreational-harvesting/


Alaska Department of Public Health has a page with a bunch of links, the Shellfish Monitoring and Advisories in Alaska section says:

"Note: These links are provided for informational purposes only; they do not necessarily constitute an endorsement by the Alaska Division of Public Health.

Alaska Harmful Algal Bloom Network This website has information about HABs in Alaska and shellfish toxin testing results. They include information from across the state

Aleutian Pribilof Islands Association PSP Information This site has information about shellfish harvesting in the Aleutian chain.

Kachemak Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve (KBNERR) This site has information about shellfish toxin and HAB monitoring in Kachemak Bay area.

Southeast Alaska Tribal Ocean Research (SEATOR) SEATOR tests samples of shellfish harvested from beaches around Southeast. If the samples indicate high levels of PSP toxins, they post advisories. Their website has lots of useful information about shellfish poisoning in Alaska."

https://health.alaska.gov/dph/Epi/id/Pages/dod/psp/default.aspx

 

[SmokeRoss]

I would gladly sign up to be a beach tester. I would dig once a month and eat them to see if I get a reaction. I will volunteer to do this. If I get picked up for it, I'll claim I'm doing 'community service.'

 

[Chez]

I would gladly sign up to be a beach tester. I would dig once a month and eat them to see if I get a reaction. I will volunteer to do this. If I get picked up for it, I'll claim I'm doing 'community service.'

There is NO WAY one person can handle such a complex job alone, I'll help you

 

[mark knapp]

They never certify any beach as "safe" because, that transfers the liability to them. But that doesn't mean the beaches are not tested. It's always been my understanding that popular recreational clamming beaches are tested every two weeks. Especially on the road system. "Wild" beaches that are only dug at occasionally have always been "clam at your own risk"

In commercial beaches, the liability is on the commercial diggers, that's why they have to have the testing done.

These are all just things I've understood for a while. I'm not even sure that I know where.

I am as sure as I can be that if the State opens up the beaches we are talking about here, those beaches will be tested first. It would be stupid for them to open the beaches but not have them tested first. Can you imagine the liability they would have to shoulder. Why would they do that. Especially when the testing is so easy to get done.

I have a call into them I'll let you know what I find out.

I just talked to Mike Booz, one of the Biologists in charge of the clam fishery there. He said they do not test the beaches in Cook inlet because they have never had PSP there, that the water there is too cold for the algae, Karenia brevis that causes PSP. All they have to know is the water temperature there. And that's easy to do.

He said there are almost no waters in the gulf of Alaska where the water gets warm enough. Though there are some, Kodiak for one.

So you guys are right in that they do not check the beaches there, but there is no worry, there has never been PSP there.We will see if global climate change effects that in the future.

 

[4merguide]

A good friend of mine got the poison from clams once down in BC. Said it was the only time he ever wished he would die......it was that bad!

 

[NRick]

I just talked to Mike Booz, one of the Biologists in charge of the clam fishery there. He said they do not test the beaches in Cook inlet because they have never had PSP there, that the water there is too cold for the algae, Karenia brevis that causes PSP. All they have to know is the water temperature there. And that's easy to do.

He said there are almost no waters in the gulf of Alaska where the water gets warm enough. Though there are some, Kodiak for one.

So you guys are right in that they do not check the beaches there, but there is no worry, there has never been PSP there.We will see if global climate change effects that in the future.

Thanks for that info. I know I've eaten plenty of razors from east side beaches and the only problem I encountered was a bit of an upset stomach from eating too many!