375 R vs 416 for guide backup

[ykwrangler]

Hey guys first post here, hope some of you guys that have guided and seen some bears shot have some experience with this question. Is there a noticeable difference in anchoring ability with retreating wounded and charging bears with the 416's and 400 grain expanding bullets at 2400 fps compared to a 375 Ruger with either 270 or 300 grain expanding bullets? Shots will only be used for wounded/charging bears at various distances. Thanks allot!

 

[SmokeRoss]

Either one will work fine. I use Barnes X bullets in both. FYI, back in the 'old' days on Kodiak, the .375 H&H magnum was the caliber of choice for many of the bear guides there.

 

[4merguide]

Either caliber will do the job when you hit the right place, and neither one will if you don't. Which rifle can you get back on target the fastest? Choose the rifle that you can shoot the best.

 

[LeonardC]

$$$$$ I am not a bear shooter. I really wanted a .416Ruger (an over .40 rifle) in addition to the .375Ruger. After getting the .375Ruger and getting enough components (spelled BRASS and bullets) gather up to feel comfortable to outlast a dry spell, I'm glad I didn't build a .416Ruger. Any perceived advantage, other than the fun factor of shooting it, of the .416R over the .375R would have been not worth the added expense$$$$$to me to say nothing of maybe not being able to find any brass for the .416R. Maybe factory rounds for either are easier to get than brass?

 

[ykwrangler]

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys

 

[PRDATR]

I have to agree whole heartily with 4merguide. 338, 375 and 458 tend to not over penetrate like the 416.

 

[SmokeRoss]

I have to agree whole heartily with 4merguide. 338, 375 and 458 tend to not over penetrate like the 416.

I have hosed a bunch of moose with large calibers and Barnes X bullets. I still haven't recovered any from my .375 or 458. I did pull one from a big bull a couple years ago that I blasted with the .416

 

[mark knapp]

In my experience, and opinion, all have done well. Other things like coolness under pressure, marksmanship and the set-up of the shot (IE, field of fire at the initial shot) have a whole lot more to do with it than what rifle you are carrying.

 

[bottom_dweller]

In my experience, and opinion, all have done well. Other things like coolness under pressure, marksmanship and the set-up of the shot (IE, field of fire at the initial shot) have a whole lot more to do with it than what rifle you are carrying.

I’m not a guide, but I can only imagine how high the adrenaline rush is, when it’s time to get a wounded bear down. Coolness under pressure is definitely an attribute that would seem to be a must have for guide.

 

[mark knapp]

I’m not a guide, but I can only imagine how high the adrenaline rush is, when it’s time to get a wounded bear down. Coolness under pressure is definitely an attribute that would seem to be a must have for guide.

Situational awareness, confidence and coolness under pressure are all important attributes to have for brown bear guide and for a commercial fisherman. If one doesn't have those, they shouldn't be either. IMHO

I'm with you buddy.

 

[mark knapp]

Personally, I carry either a ,458 Win. Mag. or a .375 Win. Mag. for brown bear guiding. Both have been very dependable. I stick to the common rounds so that ammo is easily obtained. The customized rounds like the Ruger magnum can be hard to find.

 

[SmokeRoss]

Personally, I carry either a ,458 Win. Mag. or a .375 Win. Mag. for brown bear guiding. Both have been very dependable. I stick to the common rounds so that ammo is easily obtained. The customized rounds like the Ruger magnum can be hard to find.

I agree. Seems everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to cartridges. Often for a very minor, if any, improvement. Hard to beat the tried and proven ones. My son recently bought a new whiz bang gun for his wife then discovered ammo for it is hard to find. OTOH I recently picked up a Sako in .222 Rem Magnum. I though afterwards that maybe I should have checked the availability of that round. Luckily I reload so I bought a bunch of brass and dies. Then I learned that my neighbor had 1000 rounds of loaded ammo and no firearm that chambers it. Score.

 

[LeonardC]

Maybe neither? I noticed this on another for sale site:

"375 ruger alaskan - fired 3 shots...and 57 Hornady rounds."

 

[ykwrangler]

Maybe neither? I noticed this on another for sale site:

"375 ruger alaskan - fired 3 shots...and 57 Hornady rounds."

This is referring to the Hornady rounds misfiring?

 

[ykwrangler]

Personally, I carry either a ,458 Win. Mag. or a .375 Win. Mag. for brown bear guiding. Both have been very dependable. I stick to the common rounds so that ammo is easily obtained. The customized rounds like the Ruger magnum can be hard to find.

What have you found is the practical range with your 458? I own a 458 and barnes 450 tsx factory ammo but haven't shot it past 130 yards. Figured the 375 or 416 would give a bit better trajectory for snap shots in rushed situations.

 

[ykwrangler]

In my experience, and opinion, all have done well. Other things like coolness under pressure, marksmanship and the set-up of the shot (IE, field of fire at the initial shot) have a whole lot more to do with it than what rifle you are carrying.

So there is no gain with the 416 caliber over the 375 for when things don't go as planned?

 

[ykwrangler]

I have hosed a bunch of moose with large calibers and Barnes X bullets. I still haven't recovered any from my .375 or 458. I did pull one from a big bull a couple years ago that I blasted with the .416

Do you have a preference in bullet weight with the 375?

 

[mark knapp]

What have you found is the practical range with your 458? I own a 458 and barnes 450 tsx factory ammo but haven't shot it past 130 yards. Figured the 375 or 416 would give a bit better trajectory for snap shots in rushed situations.

Generally, I think, when you are brown bear guiding, it's more important to stop a bear that is going to hurt somebody than it is to stop a bear that is going to get away. In that case, it's going to be the .458 every-time. As far as the effective range of the .458 and any round, that depends more on you than it does on the round you are shooting. I once picked up a bear with my .458 at 300 yrds, although it was way more the exception than the rule. It was not a "snap shot in a rushed situation".

There should never be a "snap shot in a rushed situation" at long ranges. The snap shots are at short range. Your field of fire, (open range before cover is obtained when secondary shots are needed), should be planned and established long before the primary shot is taken. Those shots should be planned with for more conservative planning so that long shots are not necessary. Other wise, back off.

Still, stuff happens. I say shoot a lot and become familiar and comfortable with what ever you are shooting.

All of my weapons have the same make so that the same muscle memory is required to load, operate the safety, and shoot the weapon without having to fumble or think about what weapon I have.

You are right that a flatter trajectory might be easier for some shooters to pick up readily but I've been shooting the same rifles for 30 to 40 years. My effective range is certainly out to 200 yards with any of my brown bear rifles and much further with more time on a steady rest. None of that kind of shooting is recommended and, again, depends on field of fire for follow-up shots.

Have fun, stay safe.

 

[mark knapp]

So there is no gain with the 416 caliber over the 375 for when things don't go as planned?

I'm not sure if there is, I had my two primary rifles before the .416 became a popular round. I certainly would stick with the rifles I'm comfortable with sooner than change a rifle for what little I might gain in trajectory. If you have one, like it, or are shopping for a rifle, learn to shoot it and stick with it. Chasing after every round when it comes out would be, in my opinion, the wrong thing to do.

 

[LeonardC]

No. I don't know anything about the Hornady factory rounds. Other Hornady products that I've used have always been very good. (The price tag on one of his ammo boxes was right at $90.)

When the .44 mag. became popular there were lots of stories about people running out and buying one and after trying to shoot it, they decided the round was too much for them. "For sale a .44 mag. handgun and a box of 44 rounds with 6 1X brass."

I left a message for the guy that he might want to try handloading some lite loads until he gets used to the gun. I might be able to give him a few more pointers...don't shoot 300 grain factory loads off the bench as your first shooting experience with a new "heavy" rifle. I once watched a pair of "guides" get their client ready for a bear hunt using a new .375R. They had him shoot it several times off the bench while getting it sighted in. I think the guy was getting a bit tired. He pulled the trigger, bang, and he had blood on his face from a scope strike. I'll bet that helped his trigger jerking!

OP to compare the trajectory of various rounds/loads you can go to Hornady's site and use their program; fill in the information on your bullet, etc., and it'll give you the answer. I liked the numbers I got for the .375R using Hornady bullets.