338-06 v. 350 rem mag v. 350 wsm

[forty below]

i am looking for a lighter-weight alternative to my ruger mkII 338wm which w/ doctor optics scope weighs in at 9.5 lbs or so. i don't want to sacrifice power or bullet weight if i don't have to and am looking at mainly the 350 rem mag and 338-06. it seems like most bang for buck, but have read prof./dr. murphy mention 350 wsm beats both easily in the performance/efficiency realm.

given all this it appears that cost for each would be:

350 rem mag in ruger mkII stainless - weighs only 7lbs can be purchased nib for $450 or so, with 1.5 x 5 leupold under 8lbs. ammo is available from remington and conley precision ( i don't reload....yet)

338-06 - only production rifle appears to be expensive weatherby ultralight at $1,500. the apparent lower cost alternative appears to be purchase a nib 30-06 gun/action/stock (i like crf and cost of rugers) and have action reworked and new barrel to 338 caliber. here ammo is still available from weatherby and conley precision (i still don't reload...yet). not sure what cost would be here--$500-700 above new gun cost for conversion work?

350 wsm - purchase nib 7mm or 300 wsm gun/action/stock and have action reworked and new barrell to 350 caliber. ammo only available from licensed reloader. not sure what cost would be here--same as for 338-06 conversion above?

anyone experienced with cost of conversion and or comments?

thanks,

forty below

 

[forty below]

325 wsm considered

325 wsm considered

for now i am withholding decision on 325 wsm (agree other posts that the kimber montana would be the best choice here) and did not throw in the mix since 350 rem mag, 338-06, and 350 wsm can shoot larger 250+gr bullets.

forty below

 

[mauserboy]

350 Wsm

350 Wsm

I am not familiar with this apparently new wildcat cartridge. Can anyone update me on this one please?

 

[RayfromAK]

You can always buy a used .30-06 of your liking, preferably a CRF .30-06, and have Pac-Nor, E.R. Shaw, or whichever company you decide fit a .338-06 barrel. I would think that a barrel would cost around $200.00 or less, plus the installation. The Ultra-Lightweight is a very nice rifle, but a little too expensive. For example, lets say that you have a used .30-06 and send it to Pac-Nor (or similar company): for way under $450.00 they should turn your .30-06 into a .338-06. All you need now is a stock and scope for it, although you can reuse the old stock as long as the new barrel has the came contour as the old one.

 

[forty below]

modified action

modified action

rayfromak,

does the action need to be modified to handle the .338-06? or does it just need a barrel of .338 caliber fitted?

i will look at pacnor's website for info. thanks,

forty below

 

[RayfromAK]

rayfromak,

does the action need to be modified to handle the .338-06? or does it just need a barrel of .338 caliber fitted?

i will look at pacnor's website for info. thanks,

forty below

I have been told by a couple of gunsmiths that the action does not need modifying. See, the .338-06 case is just a .30-06 case necked-up to accept .338 bullets. It means that the bolt's face does not need modifying in any way, since it's still loading the chamber with a .30-06 case. I don't know if the feeding ramp would have to be worked by a gunsmith or not, but I would think that it should work just fine.

 

[forty below]

350 wsm

350 wsm

rayfromak,

understood. so that would be the same for a say...300wsm that is necked up to the 35 caliber...just need to get it rebarreled to handle the 35 caliber, and since the 300wsm bolt face is unchanged, no work needed there. i understand the ramp may have to be polished or reshaped?

i appreciate the info.

you mentioned the ruger ultralight. i have looked at that, but want to shoot heavier than 220gr if needed. as far as you know, is the action for the ruger ultralight and the fullsize mkII or new hawkeye the same weight?

also, how it looks like the 350 rem mag and 338-06 round have very similar velocity/energy for identical bullet weight (200/225/250gr).

comments?

forty below

 

[thunder chicken1]

338-06

338-06

you could also consider the 35 whelen or 35 whelen AI which will handle heavier bullets a tad bit better and you can buy factory remington 35 whelen for target practice. It's also based off of a 30-06 case so could be used in a action based off the 30-06 too. Personally I would go with the 350 remington mag and save yourself the hassle as it will kill everything in Alaska.

 

[Doc]

Ray is right...there are no additional modifications needed for the conversion other than a .338 barrel. I converted a new CZ 550 chambered in .30-06 to a .338-06 by simply buying a new barrel, then taking it to my local gunsmith for chamber reaming and fitting to the existing action without any further fuss. Your major cost will be the barrel, but there are many options out there. You can check the forum archives for some barrel ideas. If you stay with a #4 contour or less (I personally wouldn't go less), then the new barrel should fit the barrel channel of the existing stock or come pretty close, requiring you to remove a small amount of stock material.

 

[forty below]

350 rem mag or 338-06

350 rem mag or 338-06

so do i have this right that these have comparable velocities/energies w/same weight bullets?

curious why some are saying go with the 338-06 over the 350 rem mag?

i appreciate the input.

forty

 

[Murphy]

I am not familiar with this apparently new wildcat cartridge. Can anyone update me on this one please?

Well it is simply the 300 or 325 WSM necked up to accept .358" bullets. It is generically called the 35 WSM by die makers (Redding) I made it in 2001 and Redding made the first set of dies for me. I called it the 358 Dalton after Mike Dalton, a friend and hunting buddy of mine. Redding has now started making it as a "standard" custom die set.

It holds more powder than the 350 RM or the 35 Whelen and consequently gives a significant boost in ballistics, lying about half way between the 35 Whelen and the 358 Norma mag.

This case has been necked up and down to accept everything from .243" and 458". It is quite practical from about 270 up to 416 and there are some very successful wildcats on this case. I have a 338 now and have made or loaded for the .264, 338, 358, 366, 375 and the 416. I have developed the load data for all of them.

It takes an action specifically designed for the WSM case for the rifle to feed well, all of mine that have worked well were on the MRC short mag action. It make a very good rifle.

This is one of the very best cases to neck up. It is very strong and will withstand a few overload boo-boos, within reason, but the point is, it is an extremely strong case. The shoulder angle and brass wall thickness make it strong and it doesn't suffer with shoulder callapse excess webb expansion. With a tapered expander it is very easy to neck up, I've necked the Winchester 325 brass up to 416 in one pass.

The efficiency of this little case goes up as we neck it up. In spite of what has been written by other so called gun gurus, the energy delivery of the 338, 358, 375 or 416, per grain of powder has no equal in any other case size. No they cannot produce the level of energy of the Ultras or the H&H case but they are more efficient. The 416 will send 350 grain bullets at 2400 fps with 60 grains of powder, at 60kpsi.

If you have a short mag action a simple rebarreling will make it into a WSM wildcat. Or it will be a very useful wildcat project rifle project on any WSM action.

 

[forty below]

350 rem mag to 35 wsm

350 rem mag to 35 wsm

murphy,

thanks for the post.

would the 350 rem mag action in ruger mk II be suitable for conversion to 35 wsm?

forty below

 

[Murphy]

i am looking for a lighter-weight alternative to my ruger mkII 338wm which w/ doctor optics scope weighs in at 9.5 lbs or so. i don't want to sacrifice power or bullet weight if i don't have to and am looking at mainly the 350 rem mag and 338-06. it seems like most bang for buck, but have read prof./dr. murphy mention 350 wsm beats both easily in the performance/efficiency realm.

given all this it appears that cost for each would be:

350 rem mag in ruger mkII stainless - weighs only 7lbs can be purchased nib for $450 or so, with 1.5 x 5 leupold under 8lbs. ammo is available from remington and conley precision ( i don't reload....yet)

338-06 - only production rifle appears to be expensive weatherby ultralight at $1,500. the apparent lower cost alternative appears to be purchase a nib 30-06 gun/action/stock (i like crf and cost of rugers) and have action reworked and new barrel to 338 caliber. here ammo is still available from weatherby and conley precision (i still don't reload...yet). not sure what cost would be here--$500-700 above new gun cost for conversion work?

350 wsm - purchase nib 7mm or 300 wsm gun/action/stock and have action reworked and new barrell to 350 caliber. ammo only available from licensed reloader. not sure what cost would be here--same as for 338-06 conversion above?

anyone experienced with cost of conversion and or comments?

thanks,

forty below

The 338-06 is a simple and inexpensive conversion caliber for any 30-06 based cartridge. If you don't handload ammo may be difficult to find and pricey (Weatherby) even though quite good. I have had several rifles converted to 338-06 and variations of the caliber. All have merit but to do it again, it would just be the marvelous plain jane version of the 338-06. Headstamped brass or ammo is available and it is such a good performer. They can push the 210 grain partitions at 2750 fps from 23" of barrel. It can be made into a very light weight rifle without being punished by recoil. I prefer it over the Whelen as I think it has a slight advantage in bullets appropriate for the capacity and better sectional density given same weight. I was able to more easily get 2500 fps from 250 grain in the 338-06 than 250's in the Whelen. Any advantage would be slight however. I don't care for the 350 RM. Unless it is in a long action bullet seating is more restricted, and it has a belt.

Now that we're on this subject. If you are in the market for another gun in this power range, there is a good buy on a custom Remington m700 with a 338-06 Shilen barrel and McMillan hunter style stock (Sako palm swell) at a local shop for about $800. It has been Arctic-koted (baked on polymer) and is really just finished then put up for sale at a loss. The only reason I don't own it is the action is a Remington action. They're OK, I just prefer Sakos for push feeders. There is also a used Wby 338-06 in this same shop for about $1100.

To rebarrel a 30-06 rifle with a good barrel fit and finish will be about $500. Generally the original stock will fit. There may be some forend inletting and it is best if the stock hasn't been bedded yet but re-bed after rebarrelling. Any extras like sights and black-T finish, etc would be extra. If you go with a good McMillan stock they are about $425 I've rebarreled a couple of dozen and restock about half of them with a good Synthetic like MPI or McMillan.

Rebarrel is the way to go rather than rebore because the price is close and you can get a better barrel that way.
Good luck with the project.

 

[forty below]

338-06

338-06

murphy,

thanks for the advice. i know many have said it before me, but i really appreciate your sage advice. you go a long way to helping fellow hunters and shooters enjoy our sport more and learn more about our weapons while doing it.

i will look to buying a nib ruger mkII or hawkeye in 30-06 and having it rebarreled.

of course with dividends coming up, my dreamshot rifle would be a kimber montana in 30-06 with the same rebarreling to 338 cal.

pacnor be okay for this type of work?

thanks again.

forty below

 

[dougk]

I just saw a 338-06 at chimo guns in wasilla. I think it was on a model 70 action, and the price was right. Not sure where you are, but might be worth a call.

Doug

 

[null20071]

.338-06 is the cats meow.

Yes its a little pricey to get started and ammo selection is limited for now to a few makers.

I think for the money and ammo availability and rifle prices you might take a look at a rem 700 in .35 whelen or for a really light weight ruger look at the frontier in .338 federal or .358 win. All are good choices and all are in the same ballpark power and bullet wise.

Just a side note; I think tikka has the T3 stainless lite synthetic available right now in righty or lefty in 9.3x62mm Mauser...SWEET!!!!!!

http://www.tikka.fi/

jedi

 

[Paul H]

If you don't handload, none of those are great choices. I really like my Ruger 350 rem mag, but the rem factory ammo shoots horribly in it. Fortunately handloads shoot very well.

If you really want to drop weight, ket a Kimber montanna in 338 win mag. You'll have all the ammo choices you currently have, and will shave weight.

That said, I would highly caution you about dropping signifigant weight from a rifle that will drive 250 gr 2700 fps. I thought about doing exaxtly that with my Ruger 350 rem mag, as it was a lighter weight replacement for my 350 rigby mag. After shooting the 350 rem mag ruger, I wasn't willing to face the added recoil of a 350 WSM in a light rifle. With modern bullets, 225 gr @ 2700 fps will take any AK game out to 300 yds. I could have rechambered to drive 250's @ 2700 and slapped myself silly, but I've shot enough big guns to learn my lesson. At some point the rifle needs weight to deal with recoil, and you have to choose to between power and weight.

 

[forty below]

is 350 rem mag so bad?

is 350 rem mag so bad?

the 338-06 seems like the way to go. lots of 30-06 brass out there, get to use the same bullets i am accustomed to.

however, the 350 rem mag is an intringing round.

why the gripes about the belt? isn't the 338 win mag a belted mag?

aren't the ballistics velocity/energy on par with the 338-06?

forty below

 

[450HUNTER]

I have been shooting a 350 Griffen & Howe this year and love it. I killed my goat a couple of weeks ago at 303 yards with it using 250grn Swift-A-Frames.

 

[RayfromAK]

the 338-06 seems like the way to go. lots of 30-06 brass out there, get to use the same bullets i am accustomed to.

however, the 350 rem mag is an intringing round.

why the gripes about the belt? isn't the 338 win mag a belted mag?

aren't the ballistics velocity/energy on par with the 338-06?

forty below

Nothing wrong with a belted cases. After all, quite a lot of the most popular medium and large cartridges, including the .375 H&H and the .338WM, have belts. The .338-06 is from 150 to 200 fps slower than the .338WM when the mild factory ammo are used with the .338. However, there is nothing wrong at all with a heavy and relatively soft bullet launched from the .338-06. For example, a similar African cartridge, the .338 Sabi, was designed with the "heavier and slower" principle in mind. The idea is to launch a heavy bullet at moderate speed to attain enough penetration for African game. The 9.3 x 62, and also the .35 Whelen can be used in the same manner.

Now, one can use lighter bullets with the .338-06, specially now with the new generation of bullets such as Barnes Triple-Shock. It means that one can stretch its reach and punch with a 185-grain TSX, a 180-grain Partition, or even a 210 grainer of either brand. Those who still like heavier and slower can always use a 250-grain Speer GS, a Hornady, Woodleigh, etc. of the same weight.