# 10mm glock for bear protection?

#### tyrex13

##### New member
10mm against a black bear... sure. Against a brown bear? Well here's a little laws of physics lesson for you. A brown bear has a thick hide followed by a thick layer of fat, dense muscles and large bones. What is required to penetrate all this dense material is about the equivalent of over 1,000 foot pound of energy from a bullet at MINIMUM. 2,000 ft lbs or more is better of course... which is why your primary hunting rifle is favored.

But you're thinking... holy bear crap batman! When you're facing a pissed off brown bear and it's not in a controlled scientific experiment setting; the fact will never change that "SOMETHING" is better then NOTHING!

Now with that being said... In theory you could kill a bear with a pointy stick if you had to. Even a .22 bullet could theoretically be placed just right through the eye and bounce around in the bears brain pan to scramble it's brains inside his coconut. Doesn't mean you would ever make that type of lottery odds shot. Would a 10mm kill a brown bear though?

I'm sure if you managed to place one through it's eye socket, you'd stand a better chance then a pointy stick.

Would I carry a 10mm vs. a pointy stick?

I think my statistical odds of surviving would be better.

Here's the problem with this question that comes up every day about which gun to carry for bear protection. If you want a trusted side arm to carry that will get the job done... 1.) you need a dependable gun that can do the job, and 2.) you need the skill to use it dependably and accurately.

If you think a 10mm can do the job, it's a simple matter of the laws of physics.

A basic physics text tells us that kinetic energy is the energy of motion. Any object in motion has kinetic energy. Further, the kinetic energy of an object (bullet) is directly proportional to the square of its speed (velocity). For a twofold increase in speed, kinetic energy increases by a factor of four. For a threefold increase in speed, kinetic energy increases by a factor of nine and for a fourfold increase in speed, kinetic energy increases by a factor of 16. The basic formula for kinetic energy is KE equals 1/2 times mass times velocity squared, or KE=1/2 x MV2. Clearly, velocity is a more significant component of kinetic energy than is mass or bullet weight.

So what does this mean for the 10mm?

Here's some results...

10mm DT
Caliber : 10mm Bullet : 200gr Controlled Expansion JHP
Ballistics : 1250fps/ 694ft./ lbs. - Glock 20 / Glock 29 - 1195fps

Caliber : 10mm Bullet : Speer Gold Dot JHP
Ballistics : 180gr. @ 1300fps / 676ft/lbs- Glock 20 / Glock 29 - 1240fps

Caliber : 10mm Bullet : Speer Gold Dot JHP
Ballistics : 165gr. @ 1400fps/ 718ft/lbs- Glock 20 / Glock 29 - 1345fps

Caliber : 10mm Bullet : Speer Gold Dot JHP
Ballistics : 155gr. @ 1475fps / 750ft/lbs- Glock 20 / Glock 29 - 1405fps

Caliber : 10mm Bullet : 135gr. Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point.
Ballistics : 1600fps / 767 ft.lbs. - Glock 20

A Glock 20 10mm semi auto is probably one of the better choices of guns to shoulder carry, then a heavier wheel gun, that IMO, would just smack a novice shooter panic stricken by the sight of an ambushing bear, right in his or her own face; or worse... fly right out of their hand!

There you have it. My two cents for a buck nineteen. Carry a Glock 20 in a shoulder rig for 2 primary reasons. IMO it's an extension of my hand that I can trust without getting into a brand name loyalty debate about Glocks... I will simply assume most everyone agrees they are dependable semi autos. And secondly... it's better to have something better then nothing. And when it comes to this "something" ...a 10mm Glock 20 will do the job in the hands of an experienced and well prepared marksman suddenly caught off guard by an ambushing brown bear.

At least you have a chance right? You can pull out your 10 and fire a full 15 round clip into a rampaging bear more dependably then most folks could empty their 50 cal desert eagles or wheel guns. There's some experts that would prove me wrong... but then again you're not Chuck Norris right? You can't walk on water, and you definitely would prefer a 10mm to nothing?

Glocks don't take clips.

#### Steve8261948

##### New member
I'm still not sure why the 357 mag cartridge was ever created. It's good for nothing.

With proper ammo, it will stop a fight in one shot more times than not. This is what it's designed for. Where have you been for the last 40 years?
Steve

#### LuJon

##### Moderator
With proper ammo, it will stop a fight in one shot more times than not. This is what it's designed for. Where have you been for the last 40 years?
Steve
This is true for most all guns

#### tailwind

##### New member
The Stinger and Yellow Jacket have achieved a one shot stop rate of about 33-34%.

#### Snowman1979

##### New member
Remember the best piece of adivce I've ever heard in regards to using a hand cannon of any type for bear protection. File off the front site.

#### Smitty of the North

##### New member
Only if you are in need of some additional spice for your camp meal. Bear spray should be sold with a complimentary security blanket.

OOOOO, That's Funny.

I perceive you to be a very talented,,,,,, "Hippie".

Smitty of the North

#### MontanaRifleman

##### New member
Hey, let me get into this discussion too.

Everything else has pretty much been covered, excepting your take on KE.

KE, is not something to be concerned with when you’re comparing cartridges, and loads suitable for protecting yourself from a vicious bear. KE figures are incorrectly, used to compare the killing power of various and sundry cartridges and loads, but frankly, it virtually worthless for that purpose.

Bullet design and construction are what you should focus on.

Since, penetration is so essential, that’s true even with large bore, handguns, and especially so, with a 357 or a 10mm as they are probably minimal cartridges for that purpose.

I wouldn’t trust a JHP to do this job, in any handgun cartridge that I would choose.

Probably, very few of us, would be practiced enough to be certain we are well protected with our handgun, against a bear. Most, of us just carry "something", maybe "whatever we have", because we want to, at least, have a chance to protect ourselves.

A prudent person, would choose something he feels is maybe powerful enough, and which, he can shoot the best.

That could be a 10mm, OR a 357, each, with a load that penetrates, well.

I think a 357 is the best of the two choices, for most of us, provided it’s a large frame gun, like rbuck mentioned, because that makes the recoil manageable. A revolver is more reliable to fire in a tight situation, and when you’ve only got one hand available, for instance.

Suitable loads for 357, abound, and handloading for a revolver is a piece of cake. It’s my understanding that handloading for an auto, is somewhat limited or critical as to how hot they can be loaded, and not damage the gun or cause a failure to function.

A glock 10mm, may be an OK choice for you, if that’s what you can use, and you’re confident using an Automatic. I’m sure that Autos are much more reliable than in years past.

I just think that comparing it to a 357 Revolver, based on KE figures will only serve to give you a false sense of security.

Smitty of the North

You guys are funny This is a 5 year old thread and you're still peeing your bed sheets about bears.

Smitty, if you want real security... and dry bed sheets... get the 15 round clip of 10 mm UDAP

#### Smitty of the North

##### New member
You guys are funny This is a 5 year old thread and you're still peeing your bed sheets about bears.

Smitty, if you want real security... and dry bed sheets... get the 15 round clip of 10 mm UDAP

I guess we find enough stuff to be funny about.

There is certainly a huge attraction to the subject of bear protection, alright.

The interest serves a good purpose, though, since it provides an opportunity to counter certain fantasies.

Bear Spray, like Playing Dead, and Studying Bear Behavior, and Misinformation about bears, is promoted by those who are concerned about the Bears, rather than People.

These wackos, don’t care if a few people get chewed on, maimed or even killed, because it makes life more exciting for them.

And, of course, “THEY” with there PC, attitude will never be bothered by a bear. It’s a Spiritual Thing, you know. The bear will sense, their pure motives, and love them.

After Bear Spray, there will be another Non-Lethal method of dealing with these vicious, non-thinking-only instinct driven, and dangerously unpredictable predators.

Perhaps, the one you mention is the latest?

It too, will fall by the wayside, while Rational People research more practical ways to put the most hurt on a bear, with the least unpleasantness to their persons.

Smitty of the North

#### MontanaRifleman

##### New member
I guess we find enough stuff to be funny about.

There is certainly a huge attraction to the subject of bear protection, alright.

The interest serves a good purpose, though, since it provides an opportunity to counter certain fantasies.

Bear Spray, like Playing Dead, and Studying Bear Behavior, and Misinformation about bears, is promoted by those who are concerned about the Bears, rather than People.

These wackos, don’t care if a few people get chewed on, maimed or even killed, because it makes life more exciting for them.

And, of course, “THEY” with there PC, attitude will never be bothered by a bear. It’s a Spiritual Thing, you know. The bear will sense, their pure motives, and love them.

After Bear Spray, there will be another Non-Lethal method of dealing with these vicious, non-thinking-only instinct driven, and dangerously unpredictable predators.

Perhaps, the one you mention is the latest?

It too, will fall by the wayside, while Rational People research more practical ways to put the most hurt on a bear, with the least unpleasantness to their persons.

Smitty of the North
Nahhh... I'm not biting. You can go on 'bout da bears and the spray and the guns and all that stuff if it makes you happy. I figure we will both live to ripe ole ages, God willing, and if we do come to a premature demise it will most likely be from a two legged critter... drinking and driving.. texting and driving... or maybe even our own stupidity (like me and my handloading), or maybe a radiation cloud or Tsunami.

I am kinda bummed out that I had to sell my Redhawk 41 last year so as not to fall too far behind on my bills. That was a real nice gun that I liked. I'll be keeping my eyes open for another one.

#### tailwind

##### New member
Chances of an unpleasant bear/moose encounter are about 1000% higher here than where your from montanaguy...
God helps those who help themselves.

#### Steve8261948

##### New member
Chances of an unpleasant bear/moose encounter are about 1000% higher here than where your from montanaguy...
God helps those who help themselves.

How much more? This sounds exagerated? Just how many were attacked last year in Alaska? Ever hear of the "Bob" Bob Marshall Wilderness area, every bit as wild and remote as Alaska.
Steve

#### tailwind

##### New member
How much more? This sounds exagerated? Just how many were attacked last year in Alaska? Ever hear of the "Bob" Bob Marshall Wilderness area, every bit as wild and remote as Alaska.
Steve

Nah, I don't buy that. I don't have any numbers for you, but I know I had 4 or 5 encounters that could have turned out different if I didn't have my colt and the confidence it inspires...

#### MontanaRifleman

##### New member
Aw c'mon tailwind, what are you so uptight about? Me and Smitty have gone round and round about this a bunch. I was just dropping a little humor on him. Have you ever lived in Montana? I've got bears (blackies) in my back yard all the time. I've had them milling around in the brush 10 yds away while I was BBQ'ing. Are you familiar with the Yellowstone ecosystem? I live in Bozeman, just on the North end of Yellowstone. It's about as Griz infested a place as there is on earth. We don't get to shoot them here which I would love to do. I backpack, hunt and fish this country all the time. And I have had my fair share of encounters.... especially when I am in the Park fishing... with no gun. If you research the bear attacks in the last 10 years, I'm guessing you'll find more in the Yellowstone ecosystem than the whole state of AK, or at least very close.

Take it easy guy... and do some research next time before throwing out ignorant exaggerations.

Speaking of ignorant (without knowledge) can you provide me chapter and verse where the Bible says God helps those who help themselves... or even implies it?

#### MontanaRifleman

##### New member
Nah, I don't buy that. I don't have any numbers for you,...
Exactly... you don't have any numbers, so don't act like you do... fair enough?

#### tailwind

##### New member
Those city bears have better people skills than most Alaskans! How can you compare that to an AK coastal griz?
I like SB, but you just can not compare when it comes to mean @ss big ol' critters in the woods, bottom line!
Don't try Doosh!

#### MontanaRifleman

##### New member
Smitty, you have a great weekend and don't disturb any grouchy ole hibernating Alaska bears

#### HUNTERKJL

##### Active member
Not sure how many bear attacks/encounters they have in Yellowstone ecosystem or Montana each year. I do know that if you book mark the (Liberal) Anchorage Daily News, you will most likely read of bear encounters and attacks at least 2 times per week starting in another month or two going all the way up till fall. There are city parks here in the Anchorage area where bears take up residence to raise their cubs every year and have plenty of run ins with people. Most turn out to be not so bad, but I believe there is ample opportunity to run into bears up here if a guy gets out enough. I work in the same place as a guy who was riding to work last year on his bike and spooked a sow which promptly swatted him around a bit before deciding he was no longer a threat. There are more bears here I reckon than any other State in the U.S.

It is fun waisting time arguing/debating what handgun, rifle, or bullet variety will get the job done best it appears from the popularity of these threads! One things for sure, it makes life a little more interesting going outdoors in a place where you at least have a slim chance of getting attacked by a bear or moose!

#### Smitty of the North

##### New member
How much more? This sounds exagerated? Just how many were attacked last year in Alaska? Ever hear of the "Bob" Bob Marshall Wilderness area, every bit as wild and remote as Alaska.
Steve
Wild, is subjective, but tell us how BEEG this Bob, Bob, place is. One more thing, is it where the Red, Red, Robins are from?

Seems like if it was very beeg, I wooda heard of it.

Alaska is not like anywhere else. It's HUGE, and comprised of many different terrains, even different climates. There is a lot of game, but it's spread over a large area.

It takes many acres to support an animal. You're not gonna find a herd of 15 to 20 Whitetail Deer, hiding in a 1/2 acre of woods.

Smitty of the North

#### Smitty of the North

##### New member
Aw c'mon tailwind, what are you so uptight about? Me and Smitty have gone round and round about this a bunch. I was just dropping a little humor on him. Have you ever lived in Montana? I've got bears (blackies) in my back yard all the time. I've had them milling around in the brush 10 yds away while I was BBQ'ing. Are you familiar with the Yellowstone ecosystem? I live in Bozeman, just on the North end of Yellowstone. It's about as Griz infested a place as there is on earth. We don't get to shoot them here which I would love to do. I backpack, hunt and fish this country all the time. And I have had my fair share of encounters.... especially when I am in the Park fishing... with no gun. If you research the bear attacks in the last 10 years, I'm guessing you'll find more in the Yellowstone ecosystem than the whole state of AK, or at least very close.

Take it easy guy... and do some research next time before throwing out ignorant exaggerations.

Speaking of ignorant (without knowledge) can you provide me chapter and verse where the Bible says God helps those who help themselves... or even implies it?
C'mon now, MR:
The man never said it was in the Bible. It's just a bit of intuitive wisdom, oft repeated and commonly believed.

And, you just said that YOU were GUESSING about the "Montana Ecosystem". (That's probably the only one down there.)

Back to perhaps the most important part of your lesson today, namely, your own survival in the "Montana Ecosystem"

Next time you see black bears hangin around, as in, they don't go away, you better "Watch Out". They're not interested in the BBQ, although that may have attracted them, but they are interested in eating.

Also, don't go runnin around amongst bears without a gun. Don't the new laws apply, and you can carry firearms now?

It's too bad about the 41, but I understand.

Smitty of the North

#### rimfirematt

##### New member
Wow this thread has dang near 30k views.