10mm glock for bear protection?

[arizonaguide]

or perhaps share a favorite recipe! I don't think that is too much to ask. After all, if we are going to kill something, let's not let it go to waste...

That's exactly how I was raised. Recommend: Simmered all day in the Crock pot. Garlic.

 

[Steve8261948]

My only objections to semi auto pistols is the limited bullets shapes you can use in them and the velocity at which to will cycle properly.
Steve

 

[danattherock]

I did see a wide flat nose hardcast round made by Doubletap that is 200 grains and 750 ft/lbs. They have this in the 230 grain as well. Ordered some from them last night. Looks like a good round for woods use in the 10mm.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=105


.

 

[rbuck351]

You have a couple of problems here. 1. You are not real familiar with hand guns. 2. You say you don't have unlimited funds. 3. Charging brown bears have to be hit with something that really penetrates in order to get to the brain/central nervous system. What ever you choose, you are going to have to shoot a lot. For the first few secessions your going to need a good coach to break your flinching that you will develope and to show you how to draw and present the weapon rapidly without shooting your foot off. This will take a lot of ammo. Probably 2/3000 rds to get you to a half way proficient stage. Then 500 rds a year to keep you on par. I am assuming you don't reload. This will get real expensive with the heavy hitters. 10mm ammo is not cheap in any configuration. Neither is 454, 44mag, 480, 41mag or any of the other hard hitters. My recomendation for you would be a S&W N frame 357mag in 4" or 5". You can use 38spl for practice and then switch to some very heavy custom loads for field use. Should be able to get a 200gr to about 1200fps with good penetration. Your not going to get enough energy from a handgun to quickly stop a BB so your going to have to get one in the brain. That is going to take good bullet placement and penetration. Very difficult to get off more than one or two aimed shots with anything from a holster in under 1 second under that kind of stress. It has been easier for me to teach someone to shoot a revolver accurately and rapidly than an autoloader. The 357mag is about on par with a 10mm for power and will penetrate better ( higher BC ). And after you can shoot well with the 357 you can get the same gun in 41 or 44 mag and everything will be the same other than recoil which is not difficult to overcome if you have already mastered the 357. This is not to say the 357 is the best gun for bear as it isn't. But you are going to have to learn to shoot a smaller handgun well before stepping up. The 357 is absolutely minimum and has the ability to fire 38spl much cheaper for lots of practice which you will need. One good hit with a 357 and heavy a bullet has a fair chance of working. Misses with a 460 do nothing and poor hits are not much better. The 10mm may be ok for those that are very good with it but I think the revolver in 357 is a better choice for a beginner. The key is lots of proper practice and as big a gun as you can handle and WILL carry.

 

[arizonaguide]

You have a couple of problems here...My recomendation for you would be a S&W N frame 357mag in 4" or 5". You can use 38spl for practice and then switch to some very heavy custom loads for field use. Should be able to get a 200gr to about 1200fps with good penetration. ...One good hit with a 357 and heavy a bullet has a fair chance of working. Misses with a 460 do nothing and poor hits are not much better. The 10mm may be ok for those that are very good with it but I think the revolver in 357 (repeated: with heavy hardcast bullets) is a better choice for a beginner.

LOTSA good points in that post!

 

[Arleigh]

If I may ,

If I may ,

I'd like to reenforce the practice, practice, practice.
not in your mind but at the range or in the field. A charging animal is not going to give you the chance to "try it again". If it is a genuine charge, at best practice, 30 yard start might allow you 2 or 3 shots. Hesatate and you are lunch. Bears can run at 35 per and 4 paw posi-traction up or down flat ground or up trees.
Learn every thing these people have to tell you about the wild , I would bet that some of them could provide lessons in reading the approaching bear or moose and their manor.

 

[AlaskaHippie]

Already covered it Arleigh....

Already covered it Arleigh....

How to prepare for being charged by a bear.

 

[Last Rites]

What is your preferred choice of preparation?

I've never considered eating cats before... Do you have any good teriyaki sauce recipes?

 

[Last Rites]

The 10mm may be ok for those that are very good with it but I think the revolver in 357 is a better choice for a beginner. The key is lots of proper practice and as big a gun as you can handle and WILL carry.

Glock makes a compensated .357 as well!

My point here being... it's always better to have something then nothing as the saying goes. I enjoy carrying mine because it's comfortable and has become an extension of my everyday gear regardless of fishing or bow hunting. I am addicted to 10mm in spite of them not being very popular choices.

My best friend reloads and I always recommend getting into it if you want to get into hunting or shooting because it just makes perfect sense. The money you will save in the long run will far surpass what you would put into your ammo costs otherwise.

If a charging bear is heading in my direction, I can honestly say that my diplomacy skills with wild animals has never been very good, but I do have confidence in my ability and my glock. My buddy carries a .44 and we get into this debate all the time. In 21 years we have seen plenty of bears and never once had a situation where it required either of us to kill it.

Actually that's not entirely true. There was this one time when my buddy didn't have his side arm during an elk hunt because one of his hunting friends poorly advised him that all the bears are hibernating. So he didn't take his desert eagle which he normally carries for protection. The third day he was cursing at us both over the walkie talkie swearing he was starring at one 40 yards from him.

To this day his arm is still sore from holding his bow at full draw waiting to see what the beer would do as he hid in his blind. Rick came to the rescue with his assault of snowballs and loud shouting to make the bear walk away slowly as if annoyed with the harsh language and snowball pelting. What made matters worse was the fact that neither of them had their side arms... that's the worse case scenario.

By the time I got to his location where he set up his blind, I was already prepared to empty a full clip into a worse case scene that I had no clue what to expect when I reached his spot. I know these debates will always be around long after I die and even my own children's children die... by that point they might have light sabers or sharks with lasers attached to their heads for hunting companions for bear safety. But for these times, I've argued the point that a wounded bear will leave. And the Alaskan hunters rule of thumb has always been shoot till the bear stops moving. Good sound advice IMO. I'm more then prepared and confident enough to rely on my 10mm Glock to protect me from any predator I might come across... including sharks with lasers!

I had my sidearm and came darn close to using it. My two friends were in the scenario that would of required the use of lethal force against a possible bear attack and I wasn't around till the very end of that scene.

...and all they had were pointy sticks!

My friends have both made comments about carrying enormous crockodile dundee knives in case they miss or empty their .44 mag and the bear continues attacking! There's a whole nother can of worms to debate... which knife has the ability to kill a brown bear and how much beer would you need to consume before considering this as a feasible tactic =P

 

[proud owner of a 10mm]

I have a Glock 20 10mm which i take with me backpacking for protection against everything including bears. Obviously you will never feel like you have too much gun when you encounter one of these animals no matter what you are carrying. Knowing this i chose the Glock because when reloaded to maximum ballistic performance you get 15 rounds that are as, or more powerful than the hottest 357 magnum loads. The Glock is also a very light weight gun for all of the fire power it contains. I do not live in Alaska i live in Idaho near Yellowstone National Park. The largest bear i could ever really encounter is about half the size of those found in Alaska. While i wont have to ever deal with the 1500 pound brown bears of Alaska if did i would not carry anything short of a 10 or 12 gauge shotgun with with 3 1/2 inch magnum slugs. Any way just my 2 cents

 

[proud owner of a 10mm]

I agree 10mm is more expensive but their is a very good chance that no matter how much you train a charging bear will make most of that go out the window. In that situation i would take 15 rounds over 6 of pretty much the same ballistic performance any day. Also what happens if you get knocked down and a bear is mauling you. In that type of situation i would want as much firepower as possible in my hand as i would hopefully be able to hold on to that gun for dear life. I think you would agree that if a pissed bear were tearing you apart that being able to fire 15 rounds before you die instead of 6 would at least make for a better death. I know i want to shoot as much as possible before i die.

 

[ADfields]

I agree 10mm is more expensive but their is a very good chance that no matter how much you train a charging bear will make most of that go out the window. In that situation i would take 15 rounds over 6 of pretty much the same ballistic performance any day. Also what happens if you get knocked down and a bear is mauling you. In that type of situation i would want as much firepower as possible in my hand as i would hopefully be able to hold on to that gun for dear life. I think you would agree that if a pissed bear were tearing you apart that being able to fire 15 rounds before you die instead of 6 would at least make for a better death. I know i want to shoot as much as possible before i die.

Well if you practice your hit count under stress will likely be 30% of what it is at the range, if you don’t practice may find that it’s still 30% of what it is at the range . . . so what’s 30% of none? Autos require more and more diligent practice than revolvers with their malfunction drills.

In the hand to claw combat of a mulling I sure wouldn’t want an auto, what good are 100 rounds of anything when the gun won’t work? In a confined space (like between you and the bear mauling you) the spent case may not clear well, drag on the slide may prevent feeding, and pressing the muzzle on the bear will push it from battery preventing firing at all. To each their own but these are sure things to know and know what to do about if you pack an auto thinking you have umpteen rounds of firepower.

 

[frankd4]

Bushrat your a lucky man, that picture made ny inards smile.

 

[Smitty of the North]

Hey, let me get into this discussion too.

Everything else has pretty much been covered, excepting your take on KE.

KE, is not something to be concerned with when you’re comparing cartridges, and loads suitable for protecting yourself from a vicious bear. KE figures are incorrectly, used to compare the killing power of various and sundry cartridges and loads, but frankly, it virtually worthless for that purpose.

Bullet design and construction are what you should focus on.

Since, penetration is so essential, that’s true even with large bore, handguns, and especially so, with a 357 or a 10mm as they are probably minimal cartridges for that purpose.

I wouldn’t trust a JHP to do this job, in any handgun cartridge that I would choose.

Probably, very few of us, would be practiced enough to be certain we are well protected with our handgun, against a bear. Most, of us just carry "something", maybe "whatever we have", because we want to, at least, have a chance to protect ourselves.

A prudent person, would choose something he feels is maybe powerful enough, and which, he can shoot the best.

That could be a 10mm, OR a 357, each, with a load that penetrates, well.

I think a 357 is the best of the two choices, for most of us, provided it’s a large frame gun, like rbuck mentioned, because that makes the recoil manageable. A revolver is more reliable to fire in a tight situation, and when you’ve only got one hand available, for instance.

Suitable loads for 357, abound, and handloading for a revolver is a piece of cake. It’s my understanding that handloading for an auto, is somewhat limited or critical as to how hot they can be loaded, and not damage the gun or cause a failure to function.

A glock 10mm, may be an OK choice for you, if that’s what you can use, and you’re confident using an Automatic. I’m sure that Autos are much more reliable than in years past.

I just think that comparing it to a 357 Revolver, based on KE figures will only serve to give you a false sense of security.

Smitty of the North

 

[Mudd Creek]

Bear Spray is always good to carry along with a gun.

 

[Matt]

I'm still not sure why the 357 mag cartridge was ever created. It's good for nothing.

 

[AlaskaHippie]

Bear Spray is always good to carry along with a gun.

Only if you are in need of some additional spice for your camp meal. Bear spray should be sold with a complimentary security blanket.

 

[tailwind]

I'm still not sure why the 357 mag cartridge was ever created. It's good for nothing.

Tell that to Dick Proenneke. I respectfully disagree with you, and whole-heartedly agree with Akhippie.

10mm is great, and many in the know use one. If you like autos go for it. Great ammo choices also if you do not reload. Northern security carries Cor Bon hunting loads for the 10mm. Check em' out, Old seward/Tudor.

S.B. I agree, but I think most would just want a hard FMJ or FP, which would feed without problem in a typical 10mm. Great thread!

 

[hodgeman]

I'm still not sure why the 357 mag cartridge was ever created. It's good for nothing.

Back in the day the .357 was considered muy grande' and some folks killed some pretty large critters with it. Of course, back then folks didn't typically look at a handgun to do a rifle's job.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on "good for nothing"- 125gr JHP at max velocities is as good as two legged fight stoppers get with handguns.

 

[rbuck351]

Smitty:
You are right on about the KE thing in handguns. The 700/800 energy numbers just don't impress 500lbs of ticked off bear to much. You have to get through some very heavy frontal armor and touch a nerve to have affect quick enough to keep you alive. If your bullet doesn't get through that frontal armor it just won't have much imediate affect. I would rather have a serious hand gun than a Thompson submachine gun if attacked by a large bear intent on killing me. One bullet that gets through will have better affect than a hundred that don't make it far enough. It's kind of like shooting a tank with a 30cal machine gun versus an anti tank rocket. It just has to penatrate or it won't work.