10mm glock for bear protection?

[Joefishin]

I like cats

I like cats

Don't know why you guys talk like that. My cat is my best friend. He wakes me up when I am dead tired and leaves hairballs all over my shoes. But, even still, he is my buddy..

Big bears, and Big cats can kill you, but a little pussy never hurt anyone!

 

[biggen]

10mm is ok

10mm is ok

I don't consider any handgun suitable for bear defense. The biggest hand cannon in the world will not help if you can not hit what you are aiming at. A 44mag is hard as hell to control. I can't imagine getting more than one shot off with a 454 casul during a bear charge. The only chance of stopping a charging big brown bear in his tracks with a pistol is a hit to the spine or penetration of the head.

Just pack the Glock 10mm and practice. It would be much easier to shoot under diress than a hand cannon and with all those rounds you might get lucky and hit the spine. Also, it is very durable and perfect for outdoor because if its polymer frame.

 

[marshall]

Just pack the Glock 10mm and practice. It would be much easier to shoot under diress than a hand cannon and with all those rounds you might get lucky and hit the spine. Also, it is very durable and perfect for outdoor because if its polymer frame.

Are there any non hollow point bullets that can be shot out of the Glock 10mm barrel available in retail loads that would do what you say?

If I recall FBI testing shows 12" penetration on humans not bear hair, hide, bone, ect...

I'm not sure if a 10mm would penetrate to vitals. I do believe it would be sufficient to hit the brain if you were lucky enough to get that shot.

 

[almostfree]

There are 200 and 230 grain hardcast bullets and also 200 grain FMJ. Buffalo bore carries 200 grain FMJ and Double Tap carries 200 and 230 grain hardcast loads. Double Tap may or may not live up to its published velocities, as has been discussed extensively here and elsewhere.

I love my Glock 20 and I consider it to serve the same role as any of my .357s. Would you feel comfortable with a .357 for brown bear?

 

[ADfields]

10mm is a bit hotter than a 357 in factory loads but 357 can go just a bit over the 10 in hand loads. I love the 10mm (and 357) but don’t consider it anywhere near adequate for a brown bear, still way better than sticks and grass though. Moose and black bear you bet the 10mm or 357 is enough and they are more likely to be a threat than a brown anyway.

As to ammo I, yes you can get hollow points for the 10mm. They are not what I would want in the field here in Alaska, but any bullet a 40S&W will shoot can be put on a 10mm and pushed much faster. I like 200 grain cast and my load pushes it just shy of 1100fps from my EAA 4-¾” Witness 10mm.

I have been playing with 357 200 grain cast also and get just shy of 1300fps from my 6” Blackhawk. I just found a 250 grain rifle bullet load for 357 revolvers that is said to get around 1185fps and be around 33,500psi, but I have not tried it yet. So anyway, there is more poetical in a 357 than a 10mm with hand loads.

 

[MarineHawk]

... A 44mag is hard as hell to control. ...

No. It's not.

Not if you have strong wrists, forearms (if not, work out), and a strong constitution; know how to grip a magnum revolver properly; and practice a lot.

My wife cannot control my .44; I can.

I don't know whether or not a 10mm is a good bear-defense gun or not. It might be, but I probably can fire my .454 on target one time for every three shots I hit the same target with a 10mm. A .454 has three times the energy of a 10mm, and fires a larger, heavier, faster bullet. Thus, until you get to your fourth shot with a 10mm, you have not exceeded the energy of one shot with a .454. And I think most people would agree that a single very fast and powerful, massive bullet is a better stopper than a two or three smaller, lighter, slower rounds. For example, it is has been proven beyond any doubt that a single shot from a good .357, 40 S&W, or .45 ACP is a better stopper than two hits with two .32s or seven .22s, even though the collective energy is the same, and seven 22s may actually be more likely to eventually KILL the person. Stopping/disabling/discouraging are different concepts than killing. I have considered carrying a 10mm on my Fall BB hunt, but only because it's more convenient. If a bear was charging me, and I had no gun, and I could magically have either a .454 with 320gr Cor-Bon flat-nose 1,900 ft-lb loads or any 10mm, I would take the .454 without any hesitation. If I was nine days into a fishing trip, and had not seen a bear, I might chose the 10mm.

.454 > 10mm on anything bigger than 300 lbs.

FWIW, a .454 at the muzzle has about the same energy (1,900 ft-lbs) as a 30-06 at 200 yds. A 10mm has about the same energy (600 ft-lbs) as a 30-06 at 700 yds.

 

[tananaBrian]

My 120#, 5'4" wife shoots full house loads out of my S&W 500 (535gr, 1325 fps). She's weak in her upper body and arms. I don't think it's a matter of strength, but of proper grip and technique instead.

That said, I think a 10mm is a great bear gun. Everybody should buy one. I'm looking forward to finding free guns in the woods...

Brian

 

[OATS]

I agree with that.....a 10 is great bear gun as long as it isn't the ones with the brown colored fur. Free guns in the woods....too funny.

 

[AK_Greybear]

I, like a couple of others here, will out myself as a dedicated G20 toter. I carry it all day, every day. I won't flog the dead horse of best caliber, that's been done to death. I carry the G20 for 2 reasons:

1) Training. I have THE same gun all times, all conditions. If someone thinks they are at 100% effectiveness in deploying different guns then they are fooling them self. If I do have to pull it, it means something pretty serious has gone pretty wrong in my world. I want as near 100% effectiveness from ME as I can get if I have to use the gun for non-practice. I swap our loads from Golden Sabers in town to Double Tap 200s in the woods. That way I have the same gun in the same location at pretty near the exactly same weight every where, all the time.

2) Second shot capability. I regularly practice double tap shots. I'm 99% sure I can double tap the G20 in very nearly the same time I can single tap my Ruger Alaskan in 454. As I've gotten older I've lost some of the arm strength required to reacquire the target quickly from the "big boys" ie 454 and up. I've had a friend time me several times and I can accurately fire 2 shots from the belt holster into a softball size target at 10 ft in under 2 seconds with the G20. I can never get off but one from the Alaskan from a kydex chest rig in that time.

It took me over a year of practice and testing to make the decision to change over to the 10mm because I'm one of the original advocates, like Robert Ruark, of "Use Enough Gun". However, the REAL, TESTED, tried limits have to be respected for each person.

That's where I'm at. I'm ready to sell the old faithful Alaskan.

Please feel free to rail on and critisize my choices. It will make you feel better and won't effect me one bit.

 

[tananaBrian]

I hear ya, Grey Bear. Sounds like for you, you made the right decision. 2 shots is what you should plan for, and carrying the biggest that you can do 2 quick shots with is what you should do. Within those limitations, any gun is better than no gun, but I still vote for the biggest that you can do 2 shots with quickly. Can I have your gun when you're done with it? (hehe)

Brian

 

[ADfields]

Can I have your gun when you're done with it? (hehe)Brian

You already said finders keepers for when you find it in the woods.

 

[akraven]

AK Greybear you have summed up my feeling on this exactly!!! Excellent!!!!!!
akraven


PS except I don't use a Glock : )

 

[akraven]

ADfields wrote [QUOTE "10mm is a bit hotter than a 357 in factory loads but 357 can go just a bit over the 10mm in hand loads". [/QUOTE]

I don't think so.
I think if you do some research you will find people are getting 1300-1400 out of 10mm's with 200gr bullets and 6" barrels. Add in a .401 bullet vs .357 and there is an advantage to the 10mm. As for 357 rifle loads you are not going to get the same speed they list for a rifle load out of a pistol.
akraven

 

[marshall]

akraven,

Nice looking knives on your site, keep up the good work and good luck with your business.

 

[akraven]

Thank you Marshall
I will be posting some new ones soon that I finished for folks. One will have Caribou antler handles.
akraven

 

[Aksharpshooter]

10mm

10mm

10mm is a bit hotter than a 357 in factory loads but 357 can go just a bit over the 10 in hand loads. I love the 10mm (and 357) but don’t consider it anywhere near adequate for a brown bear, still way better than sticks and grass though. Moose and black bear you bet the 10mm or 357 is enough and they are more likely to be a threat than a brown anyway.

As to ammo I, yes you can get hollow points for the 10mm. They are not what I would want in the field here in Alaska, but any bullet a 40S&W will shoot can be put on a 10mm and pushed much faster. I like 200 grain cast and my load pushes it just shy of 1100fps from my EAA 4-¾” Witness 10mm.

I have been playing with 357 200 grain cast also and get just shy of 1300fps from my 6” Blackhawk. I just found a 250 grain rifle bullet load for 357 revolvers that is said to get around 1185fps and be around 33,500psi, but I have not tried it yet. So anyway, there is more poetical in a 357 than a 10mm with hand loads.

True, if you shoot a brown with a 10mm you are DINNER. If there is alot of people out there with these in the woods then probably going to be alot of free guns

My neighbor told me of a time they were out and was charged by a brown and he shot it 6 times in the chest as it was coming towards them and it never flinched but his buddy had a 458 rifle and dropped it before he got to them. Said he will never carry a handgun for protection again.

I would be hesitant about a .44 mag so I would NEVER carry anything smaller when browns are in the woods.

And greybear, you can train with different weapons and be just as effective. We train with many different weapons and just as accurate and effective with all. Maybe not everyone but if not then you will not be part of the team.

 

[marshall]

Earlier in this thread I asked if non hollow point bullets are available that can be shot out of a Glock barrel.

I have a Glock 35 but I'm not a Glock expert by any stretch of imagination. It has been published that only Plated or jacketed bullets should be shot out of Glocks because of their barrel design. I only shoot copper plated bullets out of my G35 for competition shooting, I don't carry a Glock for personal defense.

Do you Glock shooters load and or shoot hard cast bullets for deep penetration? I asked about non hollow points because it's my belief hollow points would be infective at reaching bear vitals.

The following is copied from a web posting:

The manufacturer Glock advises against using lead bullets (meaning bullets not covered by a copper jacket) in their polygonally rifled barrels, which has led to a widespread belief that polygonal rifling is not compatible with lead bullets. Noted firearms expert and barrel maker, the late Gale McMillan, has also commented that lead bullets and polygonal rifling are not a good mix. However, since neither H&K nor Kahr recommend against lead bullets in their polygonal rifled barrels, it is probable that there is an additional factor involved in Glock's warning. One explanation is that Glock barrels have a fairly sharp transition between the chamber and the rifling, and this area is prone to lead buildup if lead bullets are used. This buildup may result in failures to fully return to battery, allowing the gun to fire with the case not fully supported by the chamber, leading to a potentially dangerous case failure. The other explanation is that Glock's barrels may be more prone than normal to leading, which is the buildup of lead in the bore that happens in nearly all firearms firing high velocity lead bullets. This lead buildup must be cleaned out regularly, or the barrel can become constricted and result in higher than normal pressures.

A few compition shooters that I hang with have after market convintional rifling barrles on their Glocks and they load laser cast lead bullets so the polygonal debate is mute with them.

 

[akraven]

Marshall
The guys shooting cast bullet out of Glock's use drop in replacement barrels that have standard rifling. KKM is one brand and Lone Wolf is another. There may be more. akraven

AKSharpshooter
If I was in Brown Bear country such as Kodiak or other coastal areas I would not choose a 10mm either, but for inland grizzlies I am comfortable in using it. Just my $.02. YMMV Any handgun is a trade-off of convenience vs effectiveness and you have to decide what is your comfort level.

 

[marshall]

Marshall
The guys shooting cast bullet out of Glock's use drop in replacement barrels that have standard rifling. KKM is one brand and Lone Wolf is another. There may be more. akraven

That's what I taught...

Potential new gun owners that think they can use a 10mm for bear protection with an over the counter G20 with it's 4.6 inch barrel is going to get someone hurt.

Perhaps a drop in conventional rifling barrel and very hot loads with hard cast bullets might do well but that would require more understanding than just saying it's OK to use a 10mm against brown bears. It might be just right for brown car jacker's...

Just my .02 worth.

 

[almostfree]

I use gas checked lead bullets in my standard G20 barrel all the time and it is not a problem. I think it is non-gas checked lead bullets that you have to worry about building up in the rifling.