10mm glock for bear protection?

[Paul H]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a former co-worker. He knew I enjoyed shooting and hunting, so asked my advice on a handgun for bear defense. I asked if he was a practiced shot with a pistol, he said no. I asked if he planned to put alot of time into mastering a pistol, he said no. Then I suggested he get a can of pepper spray, as it is much better to go into the woods with a clear understanding of the hazards of bears than to be deluded that because you are carrying a handgun you'll be able to defend yourself.

I don't mean any disrepsect to anyone, but it takes alot of practice to master a handgun. Start with a 22 rimfire, then work up to a 357 mag or 45 acp, then work up to a 44 magnum. If the first handgun you buy is a 44, likely you'll never become a good shot with it. I see alot of guys at the range that would be hardpressed to hit a stuffed bear at 10 yds, let alone one that was charging.

I still contend that anyone who has put in the time and study of handguns to become proficient will have the skills to draw a conclusion of what is a suitable gun for them. Those that ask the blanket question of what is a good handgun for bears, don't have the shooting skills to put any handgun to good use.

Again, no offense intended, but that's how I see it.

 

[Anmorata]

I am 23 years old, i moved up to alaska about 6 years ago from cali, with absolutly no hunting our outdoor experience whatsoever, i spent the first 2 years here getting settled and working almost constantly, but for the last 4 summers or so i've been learning everything from scratch, I love the outdoors ,i love to hunt , granted atm i've only hunted rather small game like bunnys and grouse, but i am more then willing to put the time and effort into learning how to use any of my guns. As i said before they dont let you test guns in the store, and since i'm not rolling in money i can exactly go pick up a few to practice with, thats why i asked this blanket question as you put it. I figure it's better to ask a questison that makes me look dumb then to go around pretending that i know stuff i dont...,

 

[reuben_j_cogburn]

asking questions

asking questions

Is a good thing! I for one can appreciate the lack of funds thing!! While I've never felt the calling to buy a 10mm, I don't begrudge anyone who does, and we now know there are a few "closet" 10mm guys out there!
"Due diligence" will pay off and researching something before making your purchase can be as much fun as the buying itself!
I'd bet there are a few on this group who would let you shoot and get a feel for various arms so you can get a good idea of what works for you....
Any excuse to go out shooting!!

 

[Marc Taylor]

Regardless

Regardless

Anmorata,
Instead of carrying the pistol or rifle in my own defense, when approached on the local trails by some anti-gun, anti-hunting freak from planet Liberal, I explain how I'm carrying the gun to shoot the bear off THEIR back. That sinks a little deeper if you ever have to defend your self against one of the two-legged scolding types on the trails. You know, the kind who screams at you for not leashing your Yellow Lab five miles deep into the Chugach Mountains! The kind who were eaten on a local trail along with a daughter a couple of years back, neither of which were carrying bear protection.

The bear crapped jingle-bells for a week, though.

I wish in alot of ways that I could have been a part of the old Alaska. Pre-urbanite rush.

As you now see, a person can find him/herself defending his/her actions alot more on an internet forum than in the bush or tundra of Alaska.

Good luck in your quest for the perfect bear protection.

Taylor

 

[Michael Strahan]

Great question, Marc!

Great question, Marc!

...a person can find him/herself defending his/her actions alot more on an internet forum than in the bush or tundra of Alaska...

Marc,

This might be a great topic for another thread; what do you use to protect yourself from charging forum posters on the internet? Hmmm.... must think about that one a while....

 

[PastorBob]

Handguns

Handguns

Personally on hikes I carry a short nosed S & W 44 mag with "hot" semijacked bullets hand loaded for penetration. It is relatively light and fits easily in my fanny pack and I was surprised on how accurate it was even when reaching out a ways. I would rather carry that then have someone saying, "My, don't he look natural." (I own two other 44 mags, one with an 8.5 inch barrel and the other with a 7 inch barrel but I much prefer the shorty.)

 

[elmerkeithclone]

Up until now I was 100% convinced that cats served no purpose.

Momma is filling the bath tub and I am off to steal a half dozen cats. I'll have em swimming by monday and liking it!

 

[bushrat]

uh, Marc...

uh, Marc...

I couldn't resist...but Taylor, are you screaming and pointing your finger at me <grin>? It sure looks like it! I got a good laugh. I once met an anti-gun, anti-hunting vegan from Planet Conservative. Yeah, they exist.

I don't normally chime in on the "what gun...?" or bearanoia threads. While it's true that any question should be a valid one, I think we should have some sort of permanent announcement or giant FAQ text on the forum that links to an archive of all the times this question has come up and been beaten into the ground. Seriously. Though I have to admit it is amusing to read the heated responses <grin>. In hopes of lightening things up, here's a pic taken yesterday on a bluff that looks toward Canada in the distance.
Best to everyone, Mark

 

[lester]

We have a couple of Super Redhawk 454 Casulls and a 4" 629 S&W. I also have 45acp and 357mag handguns.

I would nix the idea of using a 40cal auto for bear defense. I have modified my 1911 to shoot 230 grain fmj flat point 45 Super loads and have some 170 or 180 grain 357 silhouette bullets, but these are "just in case" loads; Just In Case I don't have a Real Gun with me when mr Brownie Bruin knocks (again) at my door.

I handload my ammunition and rely on the heaviest bullet I can manage for accuracy and speed, shooting double action. It is easier for me to shoot 30 or 40 345 grain hardcast bullet at near max pressure in a SRH Casull than a Winchester 240 grain flat point jacketed factory load.

We live "out in the country". Last Summer, I fired my Casull into a seasoned Cottonwood timber and measured consistent penetration over 22 inches. Being able to manage that much power has not led me to move to a .480 or .500 chambering. I have thought about shortening the barrel on one of my SRHs, but 7.5" is managable even for concealment.

I have only shot one Glock. They are nice guns. Yet, I heard a neighbor's story about bumping into a Grizzly when bringing up the groceries. He emptied his 45acp into the bear in the dark, at "slow dance" range. The bear departed, (the desired effect) but could not be found the next day.

If I ever bump into a local Grizzly, I hope it's not dark, and I hope I have a high powered rifle (.338 or bigger) or a 12 ga loaded with slugs.

You might kill a bear that accosts you with a 10mm auto, but you likely won't stop him from whatever he intends to do. Brownie may die later, but there's no comfort in that.

 

[alaska bush man]

10mm Load

10mm Load

I carry a Glock 20 in 10mm often while Black Bear Hunting with a Bow. I use my handloads with 190 Sierra FPJ and 800X powder as well as the 357 Mag with 180 Sierra FPJ. I would not suggest these cal. for interior Grizzly and dif not for Larger brown bear. The heavy loaded 44 mag would be the smallest with the 454 or larger being ideal. But for close range large bear protection the 12 Ga with Brenneke Slugs works great as a cabin/camp gun.

PISTOLS and REVOLVERS can lead to a false sence of security against large bears!

 

[Murphy]

Semi-Auto vs Revolver for....chipmonks

Semi-Auto vs Revolver for....chipmonks

Anmorata,

I come over here just for the bear debate, lots of laughs and ahh....advice.

Auto loader vs revolver. I have fired over one million rounds, mostly handgun and mostly autoloaders. I have a Glock model 23 that has had 40 plus thousand rounds through it. It will still cycle 14 rounds through without a hitch. It had over 12 thousand through this pistol before it experienced it's very first stoppage. I hate Glocks! They are cheap and plastic and have a crappy trigger, I carry one when I want something light and reliable. They are the most likely to feed next time every time of any auto loader. I do like the 10 mm caliber. I'll bet I can kill a very big grizzly with one when the conditions are right. The conditions may never be right. I very much prefer to carry revolvers when in the bush because they are more rugged, not necessarilly more reliable and can be had in much more powerful calibers. I have pushed the big frame S&W revolvers to the point of failure many times, I modify mine to help prevent these likely failures. The problem with my guns is that I shoot them too much.

Most "experts" claim the revolver to be more reliable, I think they are confused. They are simpler to operate than most autoloaders, but I have found when a revolver fails it is a serious stoppage where as an autoloader, even a cheap one, can be fixed with just a tap, rack & go. If the cylinder won't turn or open, well....lets say the bear may hear some insulting language.

I used the Glock model 20 (and S&W revolver) for deer, coyotes (called up) and a stray cat or two. I also know a guy who has used one twice successfully for mountain lion. Did the trick. You will have to hit Mr. bruin in the brain and you probably won't get that chance, but the old Glock probably won't be the weak link in the chain. I would use strong bullets, not hollow points, and use my head first and the Glock last.

I think the 480 Ruger in a four to five inch double action revolver is likely the best compromise of power and shootability that I would consider for bear defense. If we handload, that helps, as we can taylor the loads to suit us and the 454 is a good one for that but guns for it seem so heavy and tend to get left behind. That's why the airweight 44 mags get top billing, light and easy to carry. Those barrels are pretty short and give up a lot of horse power but still have plenty of recoil. There is no "best choice" for everyone.

If you are an accomplished handgunner, and don't get too shook up, and avoid all the nasty bears, and don't get between mama and the cubs, and if the sun is just right, and if there aren't any kids around, well..............this can get complicated.

You obviously like the Glock and want to carry it and are likely just looking to see what others think of the idea, I guess you found that out. Good shootin'.

Murphy

 

[swedeshooter]

10mm bear

10mm bear

I assume it is now obvious that to ask a simple question without researching this site will incur the mirth and mockery of the repetitive authors.
As others have stated, bigger the better, shoot it all the time to gain proficiency and confidence, carry it so that it can be gotten to immediately, not fast; immediately, and hit what you are aiming at and focus on what you should be aiming at.
I cannot imagine any magic weapon that could guarantee STOPPING a charging pissed off bear. There are of course those humungous 45 to 50 caliber hunting rifles meant for Cape buffalo, rhino etc, I sure as heck wouldn't carry it.
Hey, I carry on duty and off duty for crazy people with knives and guns.
I have learned after 20 years, ( seeing first hand the after action results of shootings, my favorite is the guy shot at point blank range with a manstopping 45 auto in the chest, he was pissed and beat the crap out of the shooter, so much for the alleged 'knockdown' power, missed major bone, lungs, and heart, E.R. Doctor could not explain it, BUT gee whiz he was shot center mass he was supposed to do backflips!), that whatever you carry you better be **** good with it and fast. I have not shot anybody yet/ thank GOD, and not for the moral issue but the civil suit issue along with any criminal investigation,
I have had my weapon out faster than I knew that I needed to have it out, WHY, because I train weekly at the range and with it empty in the home.
Have seen more dead or disabled people with the puny 22lr than other cartridges. How about the guy with a hole in his lung in a local SRO.
The hole, oh, that was from his aggravated drinking buddy who shot him with a 303 #4 inside a 15x20 room, across the bed! He is okay, they are back out on the corner begging for money again........
You Get It? No sarcasm , no mockery, get it, shoot it, if you are not good with it or don't like it then there is a great excuse to sell it and try another weapon! Keep healthy, be wary,
I have never been to Alaska, I would like very much to get to Alaska, I am not a survivalist or a hunting guide,though I wish I was a guide up in the AK... I am just some guy with an opinion. Good Luck

 

[AlleninAlaska]

I have a S&W 460 and 2 S&W 500's but the one I carry the most on any day out in the woods is my trusty and very familiar Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. This is loaded with very heavy for caliber hard cast bullets. I have owned this Ruger for 20+ years, along with it's sister in 41 magnum, and know them both like the back of my hands.

 

[elmerkeithclone]

The obvious thing from what I'm reading is to get the bullet to land where its intended. I have been shooting S&W L & N frame revolvers forever. I have screwed around with them shooting double action but if I am serious about hitting what I am shooting at then I must let em go single action. I suppose that if a bear were on top of me and I were shoving the gun down his throat then bangity bang bangity bang would be the way to go.

I have been killing deer the last couple of years with a Ruger Bisley in 44 mag. I also own one in 45 long colt. When I go wandering in bear country in the next year or so I plan to be packing the 45 which is the SS Vaquero with a 5 1/2 inch barrel.

Glocks sound like a dart gun when they are dry fired! I hate plastic guns!

 

[swedeshooter]

to bushrat

to bushrat

I had noticed in the your attached photo that it appears you have a sporterized Swede with you on the bluff. Is It!!?

 

[bushrat]

To Swede

To Swede

Swedeshooter,

Yes, it's one of the early M-96s from Carl Gustafs Stad, serial # 544, made in 1896. One of the ones that came over in the 1940s or 50s with the barrel cut down. It's my constant summer companion. Lots of Swedish mausers still in use in this part of the upper Yukon and western Canada.

Best, Mark

 

[Anmorata]

Thank you for all the replys, i've decided not to go with the glock, as i said before i'm not to familiar with handguns, but i do favor the feel of semi autos over revolvers, so when i was told there might be one in a high enough caliber to be semi effective as a bear deterant i was rather happy, but skeptical. I searched this sight for info on semi autos as bear deterent and didnt find much, that is the reason i posted, i apoligize for you all having to repeeat yourself for my benefit but it really has helped me decide which way to lean this topic. I was lookin at a s&w 500 with a 4" barrel the other day in fred myers off all places, it looks huge lol, i'd be abit afraid of the kick till i got used to it, but i'll probably look into the ruger that was mentioned here .
I just got back from a 4 day camping trip at cooper lake, just above kenai lake, and the closest we got to a bear was a huge grizly print on shore a few miles from camp, we had more problems with the humans up there then the wildlife (except the (expletive) seaguls squaking all night ) , but thanks again for all the info , you guys have helped me a great deal, when i finally do decide what to get and get it, you can bet i'll be workin on getting familiar and comfortable shooting it.

 

[swedeshooter]

10 mm glock

10 mm glock

cannot beat Glock, the 10 auto with full house loads is quite a powerhouse, if I remember ballsitics it equals the 41 magnum.
As for the reliability of revolvers, my agency will be transitioning to SW M&P 40 next month. After 14 years with the SW 65 3" barrel I believe I can speak with experience. They don't 'jam' as one would expect,but, if you do not practice with double or triple taps there is a tendency under stress to not allow the trigger to fully return to set the timing and it WILL LOCK. Happens all the time during qual courses, officers who have failed to practice get all worked up on the necessity for speed and do not allow the trigger to return to set the action, then the weapon does not fire and you must align the cylinder (sometimes necessary) to continue to fire.
Reliability oh heck yeah, but, that Glock in 10mm auto is quite accurate and a lot easier on the hip....check the carry weight of any weapons you are looking at, compare, and realize after about 30 minutes or more you will feel every ounce. Of course a quality carry system will help.
I have shot almost every handgun that has come out; it is great at my private range, everyone offers others to shoot their 'toys'.
Let me tell you, that Glock will knock cans etc all over the place at 50 plus yards! My buddy doesn't like light loads for his reloads, he max's them out and you know it, but, nothing compares to the recoil of the these 500's 480's etc, geez, for what! Shoot a Charter arms 44 special with max loads in a snub bbl, sheesh. There is a lot to be said for controlability.

Heaven help you if you get any crap in or around the cylinder frame area of a revolver. You won't know it until you try for the second shot..the cylinder won' turn at the pull of the trigger. Saw it happen a few times at the range, officers failed to maintain the weapon.
Glock is ugly, too severe a grip angle, and it IS ugly, but the darn thing works.. Had a few, sold them, went to SIG and Hi Power for asthetics and performance. BUT, I carry a S.A. xd9, better grip angle etc and not as ugly...
OH let us not forget about fast reloading after the 5 or six rounds of a revolver,, try that one on for size, good luck for those who fail to practice, speedloaders are great, But, again, try to reload faster than a semi auto handgun......... I am no Miclek (sp?) but I am the quickest at the range and it is still slow.
Whew quite a post.

 

[Creator]

Best for bear.

Best for bear.

I am new to this site, and dont have much experience with handguns in general, but i find i am drawn more twards automatic's then i am to revolvers, and i was wondering if there was an automatic pistol at least marginally acceptable for bear protection. I'm lookin for something i can take on long hiking trips , i have a mossberg 835 12g that i take with me on any camping trip that dones't invlove long hikes, it is a rather large and unweildy thing to take hiking . I was told recently that a glock 10mm was decent for bear protection, but i thought i would get your insights, thank you for your input .

After reading many of the replyes and admitting that I carried a 10mm for years on the job, I was thinking more on the line of my AK-47 pistol with 30 rounds of AP ammo. It's short, light, reliable and the ammo is cheaper

 

[Float Pilot]

At one time I had a Glock 20 that I carried for two legged predators.
I later carried it for awhile in a chest holster while flying or packing with a load of 15 Cor-Bon solid 200 grainers. It was a very accurate gun and never malfunctioned.
I later had a craving for a Shiloh Sharps so I sold that Glock and six magazines (plus a couple other guns) to a bow hunter who still carreis it to this day. The full house TEN is a good round that ranges from anti-personal to hunting.

Of all the Glocks I owned or was issued, the Model 20 is the only one I would still like to have.