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Thread: GSP pup wont come when called outside

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    Default GSP pup wont come when called outside

    Hey Professionals! Our 8 month old GSP is wicked fast, and has to be on a lead when outside. She is chipped, tagged, etc. but she is a runner. We can't let her out or she takes herself hunting. I've signed up for training classes for pups, but need to work on getting her to come when called outside until then. She does fine indoors. I trust she will have a big range which is what we want, she comes from highly decorated lines, and I anticipate she has it in her. Any training tips given will be tested immediately. I'm looking forward to seeing her potential. Thanks in advance.

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    30' check cord was very necessary with our GSP's. I'd always heard they were bred to hunt for mounted hunters. Break it now and you'll be good.

    Great dogs. Love 'em.

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    E collar if she is really stubborn. But do some reading, there are definitely right and wrong ways to use them.
    The thing that worked really well with my dog was to have a pocket full of dog food or some other very small treat, when you call her and she comes to you give her something. Even something as small as a single kibble of food should work. Once she is coming to you on demand you can start cutting back on giving her treats to every other time she comes to you then eventually not at all.

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    How long have you had your GSP? My last dog was an English shorthaired pointer and we've also had two GSP before that. At first, both breeds displayed similar activity as yours. After a few months of establishing a very close bond with me, they were much more responsive and would check on a continual basis. No matter what you do, these dogs NEED to run on a daily basis. I had the luxury of having a giant field near me where they could run unfettered and not stray. They were always much more responsive after they would run to their hearts content.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkhouse View Post
    Hey Professionals! Our 8 month old GSP is wicked fast, and has to be on a lead when outside. She is chipped, tagged, etc. but she is a runner. We can't let her out or she takes herself hunting. I've signed up for training classes for pups, but need to work on getting her to come when called outside until then. She does fine indoors. I trust she will have a big range which is what we want, she comes from highly decorated lines, and I anticipate she has it in her. Any training tips given will be tested immediately. I'm looking forward to seeing her potential. Thanks in advance.
    How much of the other basic commands does she have down? Does she have sit, stay, heel, down? They pretty much should all work in sync. with one another. Imo, the worst thing you can do is continue to say come, come, COME, COME!!! over and over again. This only teaches the dog that you don't care that they come right away, and they have plenty more "COMES" to go before you're serious. She needs to learn that "COME" means RIGHT NOW!!! Start over with the basics. Go outside and have her on a 6 foot lead. Have her at heel and walk till you stop, at which point she should sit without you having to tell her. If not say it one time....SIT! If she doesn't, the second time you say "sit" (louder) should be with a swat on the butt or pushing it down. Now that she is sitting, hold on to the lead and walk that six feet away from her, crouch down facing her and say "come" if she doesn't, then the second time give a yank on the lead when you say (louder) COME!. What you really want to teach the dog is you are the alpha, and you WILL NOT tolerate her to respond when "SHE" wants to, but only when "YOU" want her too.

    After she gets good with the 6' lead, then start to extend it longer or longer. Here again the other commands come into play. When you head outside and she starts to bolt "stay" is what she needs to know as well. If she doesn't know "stay" means you don't want her to run off then she needs to learn that as well. Here's where that long lead comes into play. When she starts to bolt and doesn't respond to the first "stay" then when she gets to the end of that 30' just shout STAY at the same time you yank on that thing dang near to the point of taking her off her feet. If she's smart, that should only take a couple times for her to learn "STAY." I actually taught my dog the command "stay close" when I didn't want her to go far. Then the command "high on" meant she could go wherever. See, the basic commands need to all work together to the point where they NEVER need to be enforced. If not, then go back and start all over again till there is no question. Do NOT settle for a sloppy dog, it's not worth your time. Remember, you only get out of the dog what you put into it. Depending on the dog, sometimes that takes very little, and sometimes a lot. But it's all worth it in the end when you have a super polished dog in the field where you barely have to say a word to.

    Also, you may want to consider the whistle now at this young age. The whistle seems to penetrate their brains in a different manner than voice, and most seem to pick it up very quickly. If you need some help with that just let me know....

    Good Luck and have fun...!!!
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    I have been raising and trialing GSPs off and on for 40 years. 4mer is right! If you give them an inch they will take a mile. They have to learn in increments that your voice is the final answer and there are no exceptions. You don't have to hard hand them or beat them but you do have to be firm and consistent. I have always used a rope to establish the length of their free rien. When they are to the point where they are coming back at voice command rather than being reeled in with the rope then introduce them to a collar. My collars have a beeper on them that I can activate with the remote. Once the dog is coming on command I then hit the beeper every time that I give the come command. gradually I quit saying come and just bump the beeper and he comes. Upland birds(pheasants) in this part of the world are off and running at the sound of knotheads yelling at their bootlickers. I don't talk to my dog very much when hunting. Mostly he hears "fetch it up" "dead bird" and good boy! Once in a while if we are hunting a small or narrow patch that isn't big enough for his nose i will tell him "easy Roy". I use "easy' when talking to Roy and "Whoa" when talking to Maggie our Drahthaar.

    My GSP Roy is a big old block headed male that weighs about 80lbs. He turns on a dime at come or the sound of the beep on his collar. I have the shock part of the collar set to a low setting. It's purpose is to get his attention focused back on me and not as punishment. The only time that I have to hit the shock button is when we jump a dang coyote. He can outrun a coyote and will knock it off it's feet but since Roy is not yet 2 years old he doesn't know what to do after that. He circles them and bites them in the butt when the opportunity presents it's self. I don't want him even fooling with coyotes and I made the mistake of letting it happen one time. Because of that one mistake on my part I created work for myself undoing the coyote chasing.

    OK this old fool got off track again......bottom line is don't let your dog out of the house without a check cord on her until you can control her with your voice. If she does run off do not punish her when she comes back until she is well versed in the commands. If you yell come for 10 minutes and she finally comes to only get a boot in the butt then she is going to associate "come" with a boot in the butt.

    You only get out of them what you put into them. Roy knows that he can't cross the drive to the south or the drive to the north, nor the side walk out front. I can let him out for 10 minutes knowing that he will be within that boundary when I open the front door to let him in. I can take him and Maggie to the football practice field to chase tennis balls and tell them to sit. Maggie knows that she sits on my left and Roy on the right. I tell them both to stay and then with my tennis ball flinger I let one fly. Both dogs stay put until I release one. I can say Maggie fetch and she will while Roy wont move...he sits there and quivers like my turn next, my turn next. Maggie will return with the ball and resume her position sitting on my left side and will (most of the time) hold the ball until I ask for it and say release. Then I do the same thing and tell Roy to fetch and Maggie won't move and Roy fetches the ball. It took a half hour a night for 5 days to teach them that.

    I know it's an inconvenience to go outside with a check cord every time she has to go tinkle but it's a bigger inconvenience to have to chase her down.

    There are dog obedience classes then there are dog obedience classes. Make sure it is geared for your dog. Your GSP has ten times more drive than FeeFee the Yorkie****zu cross that the old lady down the road brings to the same class.

    Sure wish that I was closer....would love to help you with your pouch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    How much of the other basic commands does she have down? Does she have sit, stay, heel, down? They pretty much should all work in sync. with one another. Imo, the worst thing you can do is continue to say come, come, COME, COME!!! over and over again. This only teaches the dog that you don't care that they come right away, and they have plenty more "COMES" to go before you're serious. She needs to learn that "COME" means RIGHT NOW!!! Start over with the basics. Go outside and have her on a 6 foot lead. Have her at heel and walk till you stop, at which point she should sit without you having to tell her. If not say it one time....SIT! If she doesn't, the second time you say "sit" (louder) should be with a swat on the butt or pushing it down. Now that she is sitting, hold on to the lead and walk that six feet away from her, crouch down facing her and say "come" if she doesn't, then the second time give a yank on the lead when you say (louder) COME!. What you really want to teach the dog is you are the alpha, and you WILL NOT tolerate her to respond when "SHE" wants to, but only when "YOU" want her too.

    After she gets good with the 6' lead, then start to extend it longer or longer. Here again the other commands come into play. When you head outside and she starts to bolt "stay" is what she needs to know as well. If she doesn't know "stay" means you don't want her to run off then she needs to learn that as well. Here's where that long lead comes into play. When she starts to bolt and doesn't respond to the first "stay" then when she gets to the end of that 30' just shout STAY at the same time you yank on that thing dang near to the point of taking her off her feet. If she's smart, that should only take a couple times for her to learn "STAY." I actually taught my dog the command "stay close" when I didn't want her to go far. Then the command "high on" meant she could go wherever. See, the basic commands need to all work together to the point where they NEVER need to be enforced. If not, then go back and start all over again till there is no question. Do NOT settle for a sloppy dog, it's not worth your time. Remember, you only get out of the dog what you put into it. Depending on the dog, sometimes that takes very little, and sometimes a lot. But it's all worth it in the end when you have a super polished dog in the field where you barely have to say a word to.

    Also, you may want to consider the whistle now at this young age. The whistle seems to penetrate their brains in a different manner than voice, and most seem to pick it up very quickly. If you need some help with that just let me know....

    Good Luck and have fun...!!!

    All this information is so appreciated, thanks for taking the time to pass along your knowledge. I worked hard with her this weekend, she is responding well. Running her first seems to help her focus on training. I'll keep at it and try the whistle too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkhouse View Post
    All this information is so appreciated, thanks for taking the time to pass along your knowledge. I worked hard with her this weekend, she is responding well. Running her first seems to help her focus on training. I'll keep at it and try the whistle too.
    That's what I was referring to. Once they get that pent up energy out of them, they are much more responsive.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    Where are you located? There are some good training groups in the Anchorage area and in Fairbanks. Sometimes it is tough to help people without watching them and their dog. The first thing is that at 8 months you need a recall command and a whoa command. This is mostly to prevent the dog from getting hit by a car but also to prevent him from getting lifelong bad habits. Make sure when he does come to you that you reward him with praise, fun, and/or treats no matter how tired or frustrated you are. When you are outside and he recalls, send him back out hunting after some praise and petting most times otherwise he will think you are always leashing him or putting him up. Use a checkcord. Use an e-collar only after you have taught him recall (it doesn’t sound like you are there yet). Don’t give a command you can’t enforce or you risk becoming a nag instead of a handler. Try the simplest lift your training scenario focusing on distance, duration, and distractions. In other words, if it doesn’t work set up the scenario so the dog is closer to you, the sessions are shorter and more frequent, and there are less distractions such as people, other dogs, being outside vs inside, etc.

    Any obedience class will help a lot, but it would be best to complement it by working with a club oriented towards training hunting dogs such as NAVHDA. If you are near Fairbanks I would be happy to help. Last thing, remember to have fun!

    -Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2jumpersplease View Post

    Any obedience class will help a lot, but it would be best to complement it by working with a club oriented towards training hunting dogs such as NAVHDA. If you are near Fairbanks I would be happy to help. Last thing, remember to have fun!

    -Tom

    Thanks Tom,
    Were in Palmer, I've found a training group for pointers in Anchorage. We're set up for a few weeks. Cross your fingers - we should have a good pup with some work, hopefully we're onto more grouse this fall. I appreciate all the feedback this has generated, I've been trying to be consistent and we are seeing some improvements almost daily, baby steps as she learns. I wanted to start early with her and make sure we set her up for success, the young little GSP has some serious energy, but that's what we want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkhouse View Post
    Cross your fingers - we should have a good pup with some work,

    If you have a smart dog then "some" work may be all that's needed. But be advised, to end up with what some would call a polished dog, that "work" can become more like a way of life. Meaning, almost all your free time needs to be invested into that dog. Granted, some guys don't care....if the dog does "ok" then their fine with that.....and that's ok. But, imo, if you're going to go through what you're about to go though anyway, then why not go big!!! Turn that dog into a dog that you'll say was one in a million. I don't know if you've hunted much over a real good dog, but when they are polished to perfection, there really isn't anything like it. Hunting takes on a whole new meaning. And the gratification you get for what you both have accomplished is absolutely priceless! Again, and I can't overemphasize, the more you put into your pup now, the more you'll get out of her in the end. If all goes right, in time, both of you will be like one finely tuned machine!

    Quote Originally Posted by darkhouse View Post
    I wanted to start early with her and make sure we set her up for success, the young little GSP has some serious energy, but that's what we want.
    Indeed..."handling" that instinct and energy is what it's all about...!!!
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post

    If you have a smart dog then "some" work may be all that's needed. But be advised, to end up with what some would call a polished dog, that "work" can become more like a way of life. Meaning, almost all your free time needs to be invested into that dog. Granted, some guys don't care....if the dog does "ok" then their fine with that.....and that's ok. But, imo, if you're going to go through what you're about to go though anyway, then why not go big!!! Turn that dog into a dog that you'll say was one in a million. I don't know if you've hunted much over a real good dog, but when they are polished to perfection, there really isn't anything like it. Hunting takes on a whole new meaning. And the gratification you get for what you both have accomplished is absolutely priceless! Again, and I can't overemphasize, the more you put into your pup now, the more you'll get out of her in the end. If all goes right, in time, both of you will be like one finely tuned machine!



    Indeed..."handling" that instinct and energy is what it's all about...!!!
    Very well put 4mer. You are exactly the kind of guy that I loved selling my bird dogs to.

    Brownells has a bunch of dignitaries coming in to hunt their pheasant preserve this weekend and yours truly got invited to tag along. The only reason that I got invited is because 3 or 4 of those thick walleted dudes have hunted behind my dog and know he is the difference between a successful day or not. One of those guys has several thousand dollars invested in his dog but did none of the training himself. That dog doesn't even know who his master is....that dog is nothing more than a bundle of nerves worried about doing something wrong. The last time I hunted with him I told him to quit blowing his darned whistle because all he was doing was confusing the heck out of his dog! The dog had all kinds of promise but the one time he got real "birdy" and was about to go on point the dude blew that dumb whistle. I don't even own a whistle and never have. My dogs all had one word voice commands and they knew what they meant. Some even worked off of hand signals....Roy is just starting to do that.

    I have given him one hour of my time almost everyday for training purposes. There are a few places that he can't go with me but for the most part he is at my side. He sits by my chair, sleeps by my bed and goes in my truck everywhere. He turns 2 in July but already knows my thoughts and many times he knows what I want without me saying a thing. I am nothing special in the way of a dog trainer. I am on the verge of being an old man and I know that this is probably my last go around with a bird dog so I have made him a top priority. I used to train as many as 10 dogs at a time for trials and they usually did quite well. When I went to get Roy from the breeder he told me that I got pick of the litter. After just 15 minutes of watching the nine pups play I knew which one was going home with me. By the end of this weekend my less than 2 year old bird dog will have had over 200 pheasants killed over him and that is what makes a bird dog.

    I just reread my post and it sounds like I am bragging. I don't mean it to sound that way. I am just your average normal Joe and anyone can do what I am doing. It just takes loving your dog and making him a priority. That will feed off of itself and there will become a bond between you and your dog that you couldn't have imagined. A whole lot of love, praise and very little discipline along with time in the field will make any smart puppy into a field champion!

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    All good points mentioned earlier.
    Just go out and practice outdoors what she does good at indoors. She’s a smart pup and knows all the fun stuff is outside. So practice your obedience outside in varying locations and eventually with varying levels of distractions. You want the pup to respond under all circumstances.
    collar conditioning is the last thing to do in your obedience regimen. All basic commands need to be taught using the long line or other methods before hand. The key to collar conditioning is that the dog needs to know how to get out of the pressure. The way out is to respond to the command given. Whether it be sitting, stopping,heeling or coming when called. Ecollar training needs to be done in steps. Yes. It can be done incorrectly. A dog trained correctly won’t even know it’s wearing it and responds from any correction given without being completely rattled by it.

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