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Thread: Manage Alaska's resources to hire Alaskans?

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    Default Manage Alaska's resources to hire Alaskans?

    From the ADN: https://www.adn.com/opinions/2017/08...help-vanishes/

    So while we have chronic unemployment in rural Alaska and a high unemployment rate overall, the fish processor import alien workers from all over the world to work the slime lines.

    Obviously at least Trident can afford to pay a bit more to attract domestic workers: https://craigmedred.news/2017/07/19/richest-fisherman/

    Not really a question of politics - both political parties overall embrace cheap foreign labor in one way or another.

    The question is - should Alaska's resources be managed to require domestic hiring where possible?
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    The question is - should Alaska's resources be managed to require domestic hiring where possible?
    "where possible"? Where would it not be "possible"? This mealy-mouthed caveat is tacked onto every disingenuous rant about domestic vs. foreign labor. Fact is the typical U.S. consumer doesn't want to pay the true cost of producing anything we consume. A person wanting to make a convincing argument should work to pass a bill requiring the entire Ag industry to hire only domestic labor, pay a living wage, and pass the cost on to the consumer; put up or shut up.
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    Default possible..

    "Where possible" should certainly be very limited - I was simply trying to avoid that discussion in favor of the larger topic.

    Along the lines of higher wages: http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/...ruction-wages/ Note that the author did screw up and use "AK" for Arkansas - a common mistake.

    Higher costs should be more than matched by tax cuts resulting from elimination of welfare and unemployment benefits, and not having to provide costly benefits to alien workers. Overall - it is a win-win for the American worker.


    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    "where possible"? Where would it not be "possible"? This mealy-mouthed caveat is tacked onto every disingenuous rant about domestic vs. foreign labor. Fact is the typical U.S. consumer doesn't want to pay the true cost of producing anything we consume. A person wanting to make a convincing argument should work to pass a bill requiring the entire Ag industry to hire only domestic labor, pay a living wage, and pass the cost on to the consumer; put up or shut up.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Higher costs should be more than matched by tax cuts resulting from elimination of welfare and unemployment benefits, and not having to provide costly benefits to alien workers. Overall - it is a win-win for the American worker.
    You should test your theory by getting legislation passed and see if the American worker/American consumer agrees with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    A person wanting to make a convincing argument should work to pass a bill requiring the entire Ag industry to hire only domestic labor, pay a living wage, and pass the cost on to the consumer; put up or shut up.
    That would certainly yield some very hungry consumers. The domestic labor you speak of will not do field work at any price. And I'm not sure what a living wage is but field labor is $15 an hour now, minimum.

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    Default supply & demand..

    Without a glut of cheap foreign labor, (and handouts for those that don't care to work) supply and demand will ultimately determine the labor rate. Some businesses will survive, some won't - that's life.

    The labor rate is typically only a small percentage of the price of most goods anyway. I'd bet on fish it 5 or 10 cents a pound at most of the retail price.

    Charity is - and always has been - there to help those that work and can't make it.



    Quote Originally Posted by gbflyer View Post
    That would certainly yield some very hungry consumers. The domestic labor you speak of will not do field work at any price. And I'm not sure what a living wage is but field labor is $15 an hour now, minimum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    ........Fact is the typical U.S. consumer doesn't want to pay the true cost of producing anything we consume. A person wanting to make a convincing argument should work to pass a bill requiring the entire Ag industry to hire only domestic labor, pay a living wage, and pass the cost on to the consumer; put up or shut up.
    So, if your allegation is accurate, are you supportive of importing slave labor, or importing products manufactured abroad with slave labor over there? If not, why don't you work to pass a bill requiring the payment of "a living wage" for imported labor, and sanctions against foreign manufacturers who don't pay a living wage abroad? Have you so put up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    ...why don't you work to pass a bill requiring the payment of "a living wage" for imported labor, and sanctions against foreign manufacturers who don't pay a living wage abroad?
    Why don't I? Because I recognize the reality that it's an unrealistic notion, sadly unsupported by the majority of U.S. consumers. The question was this:
    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    The question is - should Alaska's resources be managed to require domestic hiring where possible?
    ...to which I say 'good luck with that'.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Why don't I? Because I recognize the reality that it's an unrealistic notion, sadly unsupported by the majority of U.S. consumers........
    A similarly stupid such vote occurred in Seattle regarding a "living minimum wage" (although it didn't particularly target foreign or imported workers), and it passed. You don't think other Americans are as stupid as Seattle residents?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    So, if your allegation is accurate, are you supportive of importing slave labor, or importing products manufactured abroad with slave labor over there? If not, why don't you work to pass a bill requiring the payment of "a living wage" for imported labor, and sanctions against foreign manufacturers who don't pay a living wage abroad? Have you so put up?
    A similarly stupid such vote occurred in Seattle regarding a "living minimum wage" (although it didn't particularly target foreign or imported workers), and it passed. You don't think other Americans are as stupid as Seattle residents?
    Are you for? Against? ...Truculent?
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Are you for? Against? ...Truculent?
    I absolutely love to watch the stupid wallow in the consequences of their stupidity, especially if they continue to reject the obvious truth.

    And I'm exceedingly truculent.

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    Wean the Trident Execs off the govt subsidized teat. Let the market determine the wage, end all imported VISA workers, allow the fish processors to pay whatever wage that can attract workers. Go back to the 1996 Welfare Reform rules where the idea was to move people to the workforce. If you need the govt to import workers for you maybe your economic model isn't profitable and you need a new line of business.
    My child was inmate of the month at Mat-Su pre-trial Correctional facility.

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    Default exactly..

    Right on!

    Alaska shouldn't allow alien workers at the same time there is chronic employment in rural Alaska. It has to cheaper and easier to fly someone in from the bush than from Europe or the Philippines or Central America.

    The hours worked also needs to be examined. Tired workers make mistakes and get hurt - and fishing and processing is dangerous enough already. If an industry in America can't provide safe working conditions it should not exist.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mkay View Post
    Wean the Trident Execs off the govt subsidized teat. Let the market determine the wage, end all imported VISA workers, allow the fish processors to pay whatever wage that can attract workers. Go back to the 1996 Welfare Reform rules where the idea was to move people to the workforce. If you need the govt to import workers for you maybe your economic model isn't profitable and you need a new line of business.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    .......Alaska shouldn't allow alien workers at the same time there is chronic employment in rural Alaska. It has to cheaper and easier to fly someone in from the bush than from Europe or the Philippines or Central America.........
    Hear, hear! It's pretty tough to hear people whine about a lack of work when they're flooding in from the Third World to work. And it's not like the argument about "jobs that Americans won't do". People in the Bush are crying about not having any fish to filet.

    Well, give them some. Thousands of them.............

    http://live.laborstats.alaska.gov/labforce/

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    Default ..won't do..

    "Don't want to do" is more correct. As long as you can get a free ride - why walk?

    As the stats show - there are plenty of people in Alaska needing jobs. Fish processing is no / low skill job so Alaska's rural residents are qualified.

    Likewise for a lot of jobs in the tourism business.

    Why do we allow this situation to exist in Alaska?


    Quote Originally Posted by RTaylor View Post
    Hear, hear! It's pretty tough to hear people whine about a lack of work when they're flooding in from the Third World to work. And it's not like the argument about "jobs that Americans won't do". People in the Bush are crying about not having any fish to filet.

    Well, give them some. Thousands of them.............

    http://live.laborstats.alaska.gov/labforce/
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Default Silver Bay Seafoods...

    Looks like Silver Bay Seafoods was forced to hire Americans for a change:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-visa-workers/ I'd bet the situation was similar with other processors.

    Interesting that they went to 32 states and American territories to hire American workers. Appears they failed to fully use Alaskan resources - our own unemployed rural and urban residents. Surely it is easier to find willing workers in rural Alaska than Puerto Rico - or is it?

    The term used in the article - " unmotivated adults on government aid programs" come to mind.

    Surely we can manage one of Alaska's great resources - our people - much better!
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Default American workers..

    Like the fish processors, the tech companies claimed they couldn't find American workers to hire. But in reality, they just wanted to hire cheap foreign workers to avoid paying competitive wages. And we know that companies like Apple and Oracle conspired to hold down wages for workers, and then claimed they couldn't find help.

    I'd bet money the fish processors do the same thing- do they all pay the same rate, or do some pay more to attract the workers they need? Has the state ever investigated the wages paid by the processors, and why they can't hire Alaskan resources?

    http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/...ct-us-workers/
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Looks like Silver Bay Seafoods was forced to hire Americans for a change:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-visa-workers/ I'd bet the situation was similar with other processors.

    Interesting that they went to 32 states and American territories to hire American workers. Appears they failed to fully use Alaskan resources - our own unemployed rural and urban residents. Surely it is easier to find willing workers in rural Alaska than Puerto Rico - or is it?

    The term used in the article - " unmotivated adults on government aid programs" come to mind.

    Surely we can manage one of Alaska's great resources - our people - much better!
    Grandpa used to say, lead, follow or get out of the way! We have way to many people choosing to simply get out of the way and our givement is enabling them. The white becoming of age middle class in the lower 48 wants nothing to do with physical labor. We call them izdisdas! They sit by their mailboxes the third week of every month wondering iz dis da day we get our check. There shouldn't be any government check!

    One other thing grandpa used to say and I agree "a man that won't work shouldn't eat!" Man has our government screwed that one up! They are all "unmotivated adults on government programs" I will agree that people are one of the greatest resources but the government is turning them into sheep. We had a massive hail storm roll through here a few years back. School was out for the summer. This is a college town and their had to be 500 voting age men in this town with nothing to do all summer. Yet local contractors had to resort to hiring Mexican workers out of the packing plants to roof house and they worked hard and without resolve. They all had green cards and were paid the same and they should have been paid more.

    So what's the answer? Apparently building more low or no rent housing to house those that won't work. Each housing unit will be equipped with rows of mailboxes so the givement can send them their food stamps.

    Do you folk in Alaska have low/no rent housing projects? It is absolutely not a race deal with me as lazy is lazy and our non working folk are all as lily white as I am!

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    I can tell you that the processor in Valdez ships in most of it's labor from other countries. A lot of crime comes in with it. They have some kind of housing arrangement for these groups they bring in. They were raided by ICE several years ago and had a lot of their workforce deported due to being here illegally. Supposedly they are on the level now.

    Alaskans can't afford to go to Valdez to work due to the cost of housing. You can't find a simple place to rent in Valdez for less than about $1200 per month.

    My first real jobs were during my summers in High School at the canneries in Kenai. Back then, you never saw foreign workers. It was all kids, mostly college kids, and we had a 100 people standing outside the door waiting for a foreman to step out and grab the number of workers they needed for that day. Once on the line, you put in 16 hour days, 6 days a week. And we did it all for somewhere around $7.50 per hour, IIRC. And that was good money. These days, it seems like you can't get a high school or college kid to do this kind of work. It's a cultural decline more than anything else. They are unwilling to work. And I just do not understand that. An entire generation of people raised without a work ethic and a lack of moral character. That is the root of most of our problems, and the reason why your fish are being cleaned by Filipinos.
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    Default multiple issues..

    There are multiple issues somewhat tied together

    One is the cultural issue of entitlement and lack of work ethic that you mention - but teaching that to a generation or two required a lack of decent paying jobs and handouts to those that didn't want to work. The availability of legal and illegal drugs is another issue.

    Both political parties contributed to the problem for different reasons, so it is not really a political issue.

    As you mention the wages when you grew up were pretty good, and they attracted Americans that wanted and needed to work. Many like you and I were able to pay for a college education and/or get a start in life by working jobs like this - we must bring that opportunity back by forcing companies to hire American workers. Supply and demand will determine the wages.

    At the same time we must reduce the benefits for the less motivated to provide an incentive to work. As I always told my kids, hunger is a powerful incentive. There are always less desirable jobs but someone has to do them - might as well be Americans.


    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    I can tell you that the processor in Valdez ships in most of it's labor from other countries. A lot of crime comes in with it. They have some kind of housing arrangement for these groups they bring in. They were raided by ICE several years ago and had a lot of their workforce deported due to being here illegally. Supposedly they are on the level now.

    Alaskans can't afford to go to Valdez to work due to the cost of housing. You can't find a simple place to rent in Valdez for less than about $1200 per month.

    My first real jobs were during my summers in High School at the canneries in Kenai. Back then, you never saw foreign workers. It was all kids, mostly college kids, and we had a 100 people standing outside the door waiting for a foreman to step out and grab the number of workers they needed for that day. Once on the line, you put in 16 hour days, 6 days a week. And we did it all for somewhere around $7.50 per hour, IIRC. And that was good money. These days, it seems like you can't get a high school or college kid to do this kind of work. It's a cultural decline more than anything else. They are unwilling to work. And I just do not understand that. An entire generation of people raised without a work ethic and a lack of moral character. That is the root of most of our problems, and the reason why your fish are being cleaned by Filipinos.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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