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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cheeser View Post
    "Big boys"? What, is this a kindergarten playground?

    I'm a PADI certified MSDT instructor with so many specialty instructor c-cards I've lost count. I've certified over 200 divers and I stopped counting my dives years ago when I crossed the 3000 dive mark.

    You, on the other hand, didn't know what DCS was when every student has to know that before getting certified. You also claim you don't bother with planning nitrogen absorption then state you use tables, not realizing that what you're doing is checking your dive profile's nitrogen absorption!!! You also claim you dove 8 hours without being in DCS when physics (i.e. dive tables which you apparently use but don't know why) tells us you were in DCS, you simply didn't realize it or you just didn't want to accept it.

    Why would I meet with you to discuss Navy dive tables when you've already admitted you don't have a clue what they're for? I have my own set of tables and they back up everything I've stated.

    What, exactly, are you disputing about what I've stated? Please be specific.
    Well I don't know what any of that padi lingo is. While you were out getting those fancy cards I've been underwater working and getting paid for it...
    When was the last time a half-million-dollar a day rig called up s scuba guy with all those "speciality instructor c-cards" and said please come help and dive on our rig? Oh yea never. You know why? Because of guys like me in the big leagues. Yes, to me you are kindergarten.
    So be if your gonna 've offended by this, be offended In that a career commercial diver apparently knows nothing about decompression, yet has managed to accomplish more in 1 job diving than you will ever scuba diving.

    I'm disputing you claiming I was bent after 8 hours. Is that specific enough? And if you truly believe that, I encourage you to buy a badge, tape it on your shirt, and go around to all these actual diving jobs and tell them they are bent according to you. Tell me how that goes for you.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by shayno View Post
      Well I don't know what any of that padi lingo is. While you were out getting those fancy cards I've been underwater working and getting paid for it...
      When was the last time a half-million-dollar a day rig called up s scuba guy with all those "speciality instructor c-cards" and said please come help and dive on our rig? Oh yea never. You know why? Because of guys like me in the big leagues. Yes, to me you are kindergarten.
      So be if your gonna 've offended by this, be offended In that a career commercial diver apparently knows nothing about decompression, yet has managed to accomplish more in 1 job diving than you will ever scuba diving.

      I'm disputing you claiming I was bent after 8 hours. Is that specific enough? And if you truly believe that, I encourage you to buy a badge, tape it on your shirt, and go around to all these actual diving jobs and tell them they are bent according to you. Tell me how that goes for you.

      Please state where I showed any offense over anything in this thread in any way. Please, cite the reply that caused you to make that assumption.

      I didn't say you beyond NDL and in DCS. The Navy dive tables say you were beyond NDL and in DCS.

      You keep saying you weren't past NDL and in DCS yet you provide zero proof. Please show everyone the dive table you used that indicates you were not past NDL after 8 hours of diving. Please show any proof of what you are claiming.

      Relying on symptoms to tell you if you're past NDL and experiencing DCS is what you teach divers NOT to do. Why? Because symptoms may or may not be present and/or recognized. You can "think" you're ok, but that means nothing. Literally nothing. Why? Because you can't change physics.

      Everything I have stated is 100% verifiable via Navy dive tables and medical studies. Attached is the Navy dive table so everyone can see it is Navy data I am citing, not make-believe stuff out of nowhere. The top row is depth. Even if we take the minimum depth of 40' (10m), we go down and can see you reach NDL after 200 minutes, or 3 hours 20 minutes. Not "maybe" you're past NDL. You are definitely past NDL.

      Please, show any proof of what you're stating. Lets see that dive table you use that shows you weren't past NDL after 8 hours of diving.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #33
        Cheeser
        So do the pilots flying from sea level to the Ruth Glacier in non-pressurized aircraft also get DCS? The have full Nitrogen saturation at seal level but have reduced the atmospheric pressure so they will be off gassing Nitrogen. If PADI did not teach you the 1/2 pressure reduction rule you should go get your money back, they ripped you off. It is a important bit of information especially from a historic viewpoint.
        Throwing out the acronym DCS is very simple, understanding what is happening is very complex. If you are trolling be carefull it is very deep water and your boat of knowledge seems to be limited to the shallow stuff. If you really want to have a discussion about the effects of inert gas absorption, micro bubble formation, and ways to mitigate tissue damage. It sounds like some of the people here could help.
        DENNY

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        • #34
          Originally posted by boneguy View Post
          Cheeser
          So do the pilots flying from sea level to the Ruth Glacier in non-pressurized aircraft also get DCS? The have full Nitrogen saturation at seal level but have reduced the atmospheric pressure so they will be off gassing Nitrogen. If PADI did not teach you the 1/2 pressure reduction rule you should go get your money back, they ripped you off. It is a important bit of information especially from a historic viewpoint.
          Throwing out the acronym DCS is very simple, understanding what is happening is very complex. If you are trolling be carefull it is very deep water and your boat of knowledge seems to be limited to the shallow stuff. If you really want to have a discussion about the effects of inert gas absorption, micro bubble formation, and ways to mitigate tissue damage. It sounds like some of the people here could help.
          DENNY
          I'm not a pilot so you'd have to ask someone trained in aviation. I do know that our entire atmosphere, all 300 or so vertical miles of it, is 1 atmosphere. 1 atmosphere underwater is 10 meters. So trying to link it with diving is quite the stretch. If you have information addressing your question by an aviation person, please post the link as I'm always interested in learning new things.

          I'll request the same from you as I did from the other fellow - post a link with that 1/2 pressure reduction rule. I've searched quite a bit for it and have found nothing.

          Seeing as I've provided the Navy dive tables to prove what I've stated and no one challenging what I've said, including you, have provided anything, I'd say its rather clear that I'm not the one doing the trolling.

          Please, post links backing up what you're stating so everyone can learn.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Cheeser View Post
            I'm not a pilot so you'd have to ask someone trained in aviation. I do know that our entire atmosphere, all 300 or so vertical miles of it, is 1 atmosphere. 1 atmosphere underwater is 10 meters. So trying to link it with diving is quite the stretch. If you have information addressing your question by an aviation person, please post the link as I'm always interested in learning new things.

            I'll request the same from you as I did from the other fellow - post a link with that 1/2 pressure reduction rule. I've searched quite a bit for it and have found nothing.

            Seeing as I've provided the Navy dive tables to prove what I've stated and no one challenging what I've said, including you, have provided anything, I'd say its rather clear that I'm not the one doing the trolling.

            Please, post links backing up what you're stating so everyone can learn.
            Hey, Cheeser, I-atmosphere does NOT hold out for 18,000 feet! If that were true, the airlines wouldn't have to pressurize their cabins above six thousand feet; nor would all pilots be required to use oxygen above 12,000 ft. I would note that PADI instruction was, and maybe still is, a little shy on the direct and indirect effects of pressure.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Grizzly 2 View Post
              Hey, Cheeser, I-atmosphere does NOT hold out for 18,000 feet! If that were true, the airlines wouldn't have to pressurize their cabins above six thousand feet; nor would all pilots be required to use oxygen above 12,000 ft. I would note that PADI instruction was, and maybe still is, a little shy on the direct and indirect effects of pressure.

              Please cite where I discussed oxygen levels at altitude. Yeah, I didn't. Your entire comment above is about something that no one said in this entire thread.

              My comment was about atmospheric pressure and everything I stated is 100% correct. Our entire atmosphere, from sea level to 300 miles up, is referred to as 1 atmosphere of pressure. A fellow named Evangelista Torricelli discovered that back in the 1600's so that knowledge has been around for a long, long time.

              Please re-read my reply and address any points I actually made that you're having issues with.

              Comment


              • #37
                Cheeser
                It is all about the pressure. It does not matter if you are in the water or not. The physics are the same for pilots as for divers. Air Force jet training in tweets (small trainer jets) can go to 18,000 Ft (.5 atmosphere buy the way) without prebreathing O2 to prevent the bends. Yes pilots get the bends just like divers. So following your logic anytime you lower the pressure you are in DCS in or out of the water.

                Part of the issue may be your terminology, How do you define decompression mode? Are you saying once you reach the no decompression limit you start to form bubbles while you stay at that depth?

                DENNY

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by boneguy View Post
                  Cheeser
                  It is all about the pressure. It does not matter if you are in the water or not. The physics are the same for pilots as for divers. Air Force jet training in tweets (small trainer jets) can go to 18,000 Ft (.5 atmosphere buy the way) without prebreathing O2 to prevent the bends. Yes pilots get the bends just like divers. So following your logic anytime you lower the pressure you are in DCS in or out of the water.

                  Part of the issue may be your terminology, How do you define decompression mode? Are you saying once you reach the no decompression limit you start to form bubbles while you stay at that depth?

                  DENNY
                  Thanks for the aviation info. That makes sense. I've heard of the Armstrong effect where as you go higher the pressure gets so low water boils at body temperature. It's interesting there is an aviation version of DCS.

                  If you stay at depth you're fine as your body has already equalized to that pressure. It's changing pressure too fast and releasing that dissolved nitrogen from your blood that's the issue. NDL means the pressure difference going directly to the surface has been shown (Navy dive tables) to cause DCS. The pressure difference causes the body to want to equalize as fast as possible so it creates microbubbles. In reality any return to the surface creates microbubbles but going into NDL means more and bigger bubbles. That's why we teach a 3 minute safety stop for every dive. It gives the body time time to off-gas at an intermediary pressure so the off-gassing is reduced when you return to the surface.

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                  • #39
                    I'm still waiting for someone to post a link to this "1/2 atm reduction rule" for scuba divers a couple people have referred to. I have yet to find any reference to it anywhere on the interweb. And if it really exists I'd definitely like to read about it.
                    And I am still waiting for the link to the Navy dive table showing you can dive for 8 hours without going past NDL.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cheeser View Post
                      And I am still waiting
                      That's a long safety stop!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Ok cheeser I'm back. I just spent 3 weeks at 380', 1 week travelong from 380' fsw to the surface and i never got bent... huh.. That's weird...
                        Just kidding. I was just sick. But I gotta hedge my bet here a little, as I don't really want to do any work for some random scuba guy on the internet; but, if I post a bona fide dive log (over 8 hours without blowing a table-proprietary info blacked out) , I gotta win something other than me saying -told ya so... So what's in it for me? How about 24 cold coors and 2 large hawaiin pizzas from dominoes Delivered to me! Oh, and you gotta smile the whole time and call me "dark overlord". I always wanted a cool nickname.
                        I was even so kind as to give a very accurate hint!

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                        • #42
                          Try US NAVY table 9-7
                          DENNY

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                          • #43
                            Show me your dive profile, the dive tables you used and your math of nitrogen absorption based upon your dive profile. We can put the whole thing here for everyone to see.

                            I'm willing to learn if you show me the proof. So far all I hear back from those making claims is hot air.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Cheeser
                              Have you looked at that table yet? Shayno and others are trying to help but you are stuck on the Recreational Dive Tables. Nothing wrong with them or the mandatory 10 ft stop. From a recreational standpoint keeping it simple is easier/safer, however, you can still get bent or have other issues even if you follow the conservative tables. As for hot air, show me the medical data of all the long or short term diving injuries from the Nome divers!!
                              DENNY

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cheeser View Post
                                Please cite where I discussed oxygen levels at altitude. Yeah, I didn't. Your entire comment above is about something that no one said in this entire thread.

                                My comment was about atmospheric pressure and everything I stated is 100% correct. Our entire atmosphere, from sea level to 300 miles up, is referred to as 1 atmosphere of pressure. A fellow named Evangelista Torricelli discovered that back in the 1600's so that knowledge has been around for a long, long time.

                                Please re-read my reply and address any points I actually made that you're having issues with.
                                You're mixing apples with oranges here. It isn't 1 atmosphere, it's the atmosphere. Higher, it becomes the stratosphere, the ionosphere, etc. None of those terms relate to air pressure values.

                                As one dives to 30-feet (actually 29.4 feet), he may ascend without decompression. At any depth below that, he will require decompression. This exemplifies and supports the the 1/2 ATM rule.

                                An interesting aside: around 1969, SCUBAPRO came out with its first "Decom Meter". Worn on the wrist, this cumbersome gadget included "Mystery Element X", and was designed to aid in dive calculations as they related to decompression needs.

                                Comment

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