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  • #16
    Originally posted by 4merguide View Post
    I've often wondered how a person explains how it feels to get the bends? I guess I've always assumed it being like getting one big ache, or charlie horse all over your body? What kind of pain is it like, or what a person could relate it to...??? Just curious....
    Good question. It can manifest as a joint point or something like that. Maybe unusual tingly feelings. I just watched for something different from my usual aches and pains. If someone was unusually fatigued (possible sick) we would run them on a 02 treatment schedule (5A). We were very careful, things like diving all day in Valdez we would even account for driving back over Thompson pass. Drinking to much and lack of sleep the night before can mask symptoms/signs... So there's that.lol

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    • #17
      I forgot to add; I do know people who habe been very critically bent. One guy who is older now (67-ish) has wrist pain all the time from it.
      The other still dives just fine. We always bump him up a table though.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by shayno View Post
        Yes, I'm pretty sure it was the ocean ranger! The story as told to me was that it was in the gulf. But, I could have heard that part wrong. What's amazing is that 3 of those dive crew guys are still in the business, and 2 more retired about 8 years ago!
        That was the first hole the Ocean Ranger drilled. It sunk in the North Atlantic and killed 68 men. The brains of that dive was, The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. It was an "Active Divers" crew.
        "Life Is Either a Daring Adventure or Nothing" - Helen Keller

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        • #19
          Originally posted by shayno View Post
          Huh... Well no I cannot change physics. You sir (or ma'am) are correct. I'm pretty sure I can recognize myself if I was bent. I'm also pretty sure my body wasn't going into "high gear". Not really sure what that means.
          Not sure what DCS damage is?
          Here's the reality for ya. Its about to get real. Lol
          Scuba divers are the ones who are at far greater risk for any type of diving related injuries. That's a fact. I've spent more time on a ladder (im slow lol) getting out of the water than most scuba divers have ever spent in the water, and I've never been bent. Out of 16 years of jobs, I saw not a single instance of someone getting sick. Is that the norm? Yes. Because we are very heavily regulated and it is our livelihood. Its taken seriously and when you've got a drill ship or a platform waiting on you to do your job, you cannot afford to play around with tables. That's why we carried around a chamber or two everywhere, so we can play with the big boy tables. (No offense)
          As far as everything 40 fsw to surface goes, we just make the diver come up above 20 few to keep him from z-ing out. (Legitimately use the tables) We also used to do repets on sur-d-02's, that was something that always made me a lil uncomfortable, but still legal.

          It's not surprising you never realized you were in DCS as that is very common. The symptoms can be difficult to recognize. A slight headache or joint pain, often after you've been out of the water for hours. So the only way to tell if you're in DCS is by using the tables. And, as you've agreed, you can't change physics.

          So not recognizing you're in DCS means nothing. If you exceed NDL per the dive tables you're in DCS. Again, you can't change physics.

          Glad to hear you used safety stops on ascent. We made those mandatory for all of our students & rec divers.

          BTW, by "high gear" I meant how quickly your body off-gasses when changing depth. We off-gas faster the greater the difference between the ambient pressure we dove at vs the surface. That's why we do safety stops for all dives - to give our bodies a chance to off-gas slower and not cause bubbles.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by 4merguide View Post
            I've often wondered how a person explains how it feels to get the bends? I guess I've always assumed it being like getting one big ache, or charlie horse all over your body? What kind of pain is it like, or what a person could relate it to...??? Just curious....
            Most of the time you won't even know you're in DCS. For severe cases, yes, you get the "bends" or a body rash or other obvious DCS symptoms. But the majority of DCS cases you won't feel much of anything and, if you do, it can occur hours after you're out of the water. Headaches and joint pain are the most common non-severe symptoms.

            That's why it is critical to adhere to the dive tables. Relying solely on symptoms is unreliable which is why we stick with physics.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by shayno View Post
              Drinking to much and lack of sleep the night before can mask symptoms/signs... So there's that.lol
              Add to that your physical conditioning (or lack thereof) and a myriad of factors that can affect recognizing DCS symptoms.

              That is why we adhere to dive tables to tell us if we're in DCS. Our bodies are all different so the symptoms are different in type and severity. Add in the mental side of the equation ("ah, it must've been last night's partying") and you make it even less reliable. Using physics (dive tables) removes as much of the "human" factors as possible.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Cheeser View Post
                Add to that your physical conditioning (or lack thereof) and a myriad of factors that can affect recognizing DCS symptoms.

                That is why we adhere to dive tables to tell us if we're in DCS. Our bodies are all different so the symptoms are different in type and severity. Add in the mental side of the equation ("ah, it must've been last night's partying") and you make it even less reliable. Using physics (dive tables) removes as much of the "human" factors as possible.
                What???

                If you would like to talk about tables and schedules, treatment tables, sickness, and all that stuff you are more than welcome to come hang out and talk diving. Because I'm reading that your letting a table tell you if your bent... I would be happy to go over the navy dive manual in detail with you. I been there done that a time or two.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by shayno View Post
                  What???

                  If you would like to talk about tables and schedules, treatment tables, sickness, and all that stuff you are more than welcome to come hang out and talk diving. Because I'm reading that your letting a table tell you if your bent... I would be happy to go over the navy dive manual in detail with you. I been there done that a time or two.

                  What is your "what" referring to?

                  If you don't use dive tables to determine your nitrogen absorption, what do you use?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cheeser View Post
                    What is your "what" referring to?

                    If you don't use dive tables to determine your nitrogen absorption, what do you use?
                    Let's start over. What does DCS mean?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shayno View Post
                      Let's start over. What does DCS mean?

                      You don't know what DCS is???

                      I'd still like to hear how you determine your nitrogen absorption since you seemed to scoff at using dive tables. Please, fill me in on your technique.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cheeser View Post
                        You don't know what DCS is???

                        I'd still like to hear how you determine your nitrogen absorption since you seemed to scoff at using dive tables. Please, fill me in on your technique.
                        I wouldn't ask if I knee what it was. I'm trying to make sure were on the same page.
                        I didn't scoff at tables, you seem to use them differently than we do.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cheeser View Post
                          You don't know what DCS is???

                          I'd still like to hear how you determine your nitrogen absorption since you seemed to scoff at using dive tables. Please, fill me in on your technique.
                          And I can tell you no commercial diver has ever sat around and said "let's figure out our nitrogen absorption rate"... We simply look at tables, figure what the depth/job entail, and plan accordingly. If a diver runs deeper or longer than expected, we bump tables. If a diver runs past no-d limits, we run them in a surface decompression 02 or in water. It really is that simple. When a diver gets on deck and gets his gear off we perform a quick Nero exam which consists of a couple questions and monitoring them for a time period. Usually, if someone says my toe hurts for example after a dive, we run them on a treatment table. If the pain goes away with pressure, there COULD BE a issue. However, in the professional community in alaska, it's been a while since there was a life threatening decompression related issue.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by shayno View Post
                            And I can tell you no commercial diver has ever sat around and said "let's figure out our nitrogen absorption rate"... We simply look at tables, figure what the depth/job entail, and plan accordingly. If a diver runs deeper or longer than expected, we bump tables. If a diver runs past no-d limits, we run them in a surface decompression 02 or in water. It really is that simple. When a diver gets on deck and gets his gear off we perform a quick Nero exam which consists of a couple questions and monitoring them for a time period. Usually, if someone says my toe hurts for example after a dive, we run them on a treatment table. If the pain goes away with pressure, there COULD BE a issue. However, in the professional community in alaska, it's been a while since there was a life threatening decompression related issue.

                            DCS is the acronym for decompression sickness.

                            So you say you don't know any commercial diver who sat around and said "lets figure out our nitrogen absorption rate" and then you admit that's exactly what you do by looking at the tables and planning accordingly. Because that's exactly what those tables tell you - your nitrogen absorption rate.

                            So you rely on physics (dive tables) to determine your nitrogen absorption rate just like every other diver.

                            But, in regards to your first reply where you state you dove for 8 hours and weren't in DCS, that is 100% false. If you work those tables you referred to above you'll quickly see you were in DCS. Again, you can't change physics.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cheeser View Post
                              DCS is the acronym for decompression sickness.

                              So you say you don't know any commercial diver who sat around and said "lets figure out our nitrogen absorption rate" and then you admit that's exactly what you do by looking at the tables and planning accordingly. Because that's exactly what those tables tell you - your nitrogen absorption rate.

                              So you rely on physics (dive tables) to determine your nitrogen absorption rate just like every other diver.

                              But, in regards to your first reply where you state you dove for 8 hours and weren't in DCS, that is 100% false. If you work those tables you referred to above you'll quickly see you were in DCS. Again, you can't change physics.
                              Oh boy... dude, you can think what you want and claim what you want, but you are simply wrong.
                              If you would like to discuss diving like big boys your welcome to come over and I'll invite a hyperbaric expert (a friend) over and we can look at a navy dive manual and you might just learn a thing or two. Did you go to a navy dive school or commercial school? Please tell me you have more training besides a weekend class in a swimming pool...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by shayno View Post
                                Oh boy... dude, you can think what you want and claim what you want, but you are simply wrong.
                                If you would like to discuss diving like big boys your welcome to come over and I'll invite a hyperbaric expert (a friend) over and we can look at a navy dive manual and you might just learn a thing or two. Did you go to a navy dive school or commercial school? Please tell me you have more training besides a weekend class in a swimming pool...

                                "Big boys"? What, is this a kindergarten playground?

                                I'm a PADI certified MSDT instructor with so many specialty instructor c-cards I've lost count. I've certified over 200 divers and I stopped counting my dives years ago when I crossed the 3000 dive mark.

                                You, on the other hand, didn't know what DCS was when every student has to know that before getting certified. You also claim you don't bother with planning nitrogen absorption then state you use tables, not realizing that what you're doing is checking your dive profile's nitrogen absorption!!! You also claim you dove 8 hours without being in DCS when physics (i.e. dive tables which you apparently use but don't know why) tells us you were in DCS, you simply didn't realize it or you just didn't want to accept it.

                                Why would I meet with you to discuss Navy dive tables when you've already admitted you don't have a clue what they're for? I have my own set of tables and they back up everything I've stated.

                                What, exactly, are you disputing about what I've stated? Please be specific.

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