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Lake Louise Camp Ground closed over abuse.

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  • Chez
    replied
    Originally posted by outaMT View Post
    Would a voluntary - unpaid camp host system work? I would love to do a week or so free camping in exchange for camp host responsibilities. I think there would be plenty of Alaskans who would do the same. I'm sure there would be some coverage gaps, but I bet the majority of the camping season would be covered by volunteers. I agree with both the azzhats, and failed polices that we end users are left to deal with.
    One week schedules wouldn't work for many reasons
    1) the hosts could be completely useless and never do anything other than use the camp
    2) campers could easily over stay their welcome (I believe 5 day limit?) as hosts change shift

    Those are only the first two that came to mind. Being a host is work. you need to live by the rules and make sure everyone else does too or they will take advantage of your kindness and the next thing you know you have a homeless camp or meth heads tweeking all over the place...

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  • outaMT
    replied
    Would a voluntary - unpaid camp host system work? I would love to do a week or so free camping in exchange for camp host responsibilities. I think there would be plenty of Alaskans who would do the same. I'm sure there would be some coverage gaps, but I bet the majority of the camping season would be covered by volunteers. I agree with both the azzhats, and failed polices that we end users are left to deal with.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bushwhack Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Seriously? You're seriously saying that it's the government's fault that a bunch of sucky asshats repeatedly trashed a campground? The government should have to follow deplorable slobs around everywhere they go to ensure they don't trash the place? Did you type that with a straight face?
    It's not too often that I have agree with IOTT, but I had to laugh at this post. In all honesty, we can't really be naive enough to believe it's the job of the government to educate idiots not to be idiots. First and foremost that should be the job of parents. But since some parents just can't be parents, we as a society need to police each other. And I personally don't think it's reasonable to expect that the government is going to fully be able to fund every and all of the parks adequately while we continue to face deficits in the state budget. So unless we can get our fiscal house in order, it should everyone's job to police each other, teach each other, hold each other accountable, and last but not least act like adults and be responsible for our own actions. But it is sad we have to put up with that BS.

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  • Chez
    replied
    thats what happens when you open the doors to city folk...

    It has nothing to do with the govt. other than they are worthless in all capacities at everything they try to manage

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  • AK2AZ
    replied
    Originally posted by cdubbin View Post
    Stayed a night there mid-June, it wasn't that bad.....campground was packed, trash cans full but not overflowing (we packed our garbage out), toilets locked. Musta been some real hooligans came through since then....
    Locals were doing regular cleaning. State should have barricaded the entrance if there was to be no host or law enforcement presence. Pretty sad people couldn't follow your lead and pack the trash out.

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  • iofthetaiga
    replied
    Originally posted by Patsfan54 View Post
    If the trash is full in your house do you take it out or pile it up next to the can and hope your local government comes and takes care of it?
    I highly doubt such mindless dirtbags give a flip if it gets picked up, or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • Patsfan54
    replied
    People should (SHOULD) take personal responsibility, they should (SHOULD) care for their property (public property being their property), people shouldn't (SHOULDN'T) rely on government to do everything for them. If the trash is full in your house do you take it out or pile it up next to the can and hope your local government comes and takes care of it? People need to take personal responsibility for their actions, unfortunately we are at a point in our society where people demand government do every little thing for them instead of doing basic things for themselves...like taking out the trash.

    Did the local government fail in this case, possibly. Did those who dumped their trash in hopes that some one else would take care of it fail in this case, absolutely. I was taught that if you make a mess you clean it up, years of government dependency has brought us to a point where we can't even clean up after ourselves. Pathetic.

    Leave a comment:


  • iofthetaiga
    replied
    Originally posted by AGL4now View Post

    "WRONG"..........What I am advocating is government get the hell out of private business. Sell or long term lease the existing campgrounds. As I pointed to in above post, Hope. Alaska has the ability to manage campgrounds. As do residents throughout Alaska have those same skills. If the state wants to remain in the campground business.....it needs to restructure management of the department.

    Alaska can't even manage the "Public Outhouses on the Road System". How hard is that job.......???

    Alaska is evolving into a failed state. And the future looks horrific.
    So, two issues there. First is alleged lousy management of our campground/wayside system. Again, maybe, maybe not. Is the program sufficiently funded to accomplish what we desire? If not, why not? Second; what do you mean "get out of private business? Our public campgrounds are not a private business, nor should they be. When's the last time privatization of a public resource resulted in a savings to the public, without a loss of access to the formerly public resource?

    Leave a comment:


  • AGL4now
    replied
    Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Do we? If so, why are we forced to rely on volunteers from Outside because we won't fund paid campground attendant positions? There's a term for what you're espousing: "unfunded mandate".
    "WRONG"..........What I am advocating is government get the hell out of private business. Sell or long term lease the existing campgrounds. As I pointed to in above post, Hope. Alaska has the ability to manage campgrounds. As do residents throughout Alaska have those same skills. If the state wants to remain in the campground business.....it needs to restructure management of the department.

    Alaska can't even manage the "Public Outhouses on the Road System". How hard is that job.......???

    Alaska is evolving into a failed state. And the future looks horrific.

    Leave a comment:


  • iofthetaiga
    replied
    Originally posted by AGL4now View Post


    This is why we have "Government"............This is what we pay for directly or indirectly.
    Do we? If so, why are we forced to rely on volunteers from Outside because we won't fund paid campground attendant positions? There's a term for what you're espousing: "unfunded mandate".

    Leave a comment:


  • AGL4now
    replied
    Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    What should they have done differently? Even now, what should they do differently? Why don't Alaskans want to volunteer to babysit at campgrounds, for free? Pandemic associated issues notwithstanding, should the agency be obligated to rely on unpaid volunteers from from Outside to keep local scumbags from trashing our campgrounds? Do you believe people should work for free, or should we pay people with enforcement authority to babysit at our campgrounds?

    This is why we have "Government"............This is what we pay for directly or indirectly. Your question has some foundation......"IF" there was no government specifically assigned to manage that segment of our common social system.

    I come back to, it is folly to have government that is useless or sometimes worse then useless. If you want non-government people to jump'in and manage the campgrounds.........do away with government.......and sell or lease those campgrounds to private people or private enterprise.

    it should be noted that in Hope, Alaska there is one government campground and three private campgrounds.

    Leave a comment:


  • cdubbin
    replied
    Stayed a night there mid-June, it wasn't that bad.....campground was packed, trash cans full but not overflowing (we packed our garbage out), toilets locked. Musta been some real hooligans came through since then....

    Leave a comment:


  • iofthetaiga
    replied
    Originally posted by AGL4now View Post
    The Government "Knew" that Coronavirus-19 was going to impact near everything. Especially what is monitored by Government. They had "Massive" warning that campground hosts would be an issue. They knew in early February this was a pending problem. Management FAILED.
    What should they have done differently? Even now, what should they do differently? Why don't Alaskans want to volunteer to babysit at campgrounds, for free? Pandemic associated issues notwithstanding, should the agency be obligated to rely on unpaid volunteers from from Outside to keep local scumbags from trashing our campgrounds? Do you believe people should work for free, or should we pay people with enforcement authority to babysit at our campgrounds?

    Leave a comment:


  • AGL4now
    replied
    The Government "Knew" that Coronavirus-19 was going to impact near everything. Especially what is monitored by Government. They had "Massive" warning that campground hosts would be an issue. They knew in early February this was a pending problem. Management FAILED. Heads should roll, but we know they will not even be reprimanded.......more likely promoted.

    I am likely one of the very-very few who likes our current Governor. But he has executed pathetic management oversight. He needs to spit'can many department heads.

    Leave a comment:


  • iofthetaiga
    replied
    Fair point AGL. I don't disagree with you in that regard. I first read your comment as "we/people don't need to be responsible for our actions, and we should blame it on the government" (an all too pervasive attitude here in the "Great"land ). I'm certainly pro-oversight/enforcement, because, as is demonstrated over and over and over and over....people suck. And since we can't simply weed the sucky ones out and exterminate them, we need oversight and enforcement. In that regard you may be correct that the agency charged with oversight/enforcement failed. But to be fair should we examine that agency's ability to fully provide oversight/enforcement at all our campgrounds? (And how about trailheads which also get trashed and vehicles vandalized)? Are they adequately funded? Why do they rely exclusively on unpaid volunteers to "host" (babysit) at campgrounds? Why can't they pay for limited commission Rangers to provide oversight/enforcement at campgrounds 24/7....?

    Leave a comment:

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