Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Difference Between an Air Charter and a Transporter

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Difference Between an Air Charter and a Transporter

    Had an interesting experience today, when I contacted the State of Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board. In search of an official definition of an Air Charter and a Transporter, I reached out and was told to contact the Dept. of Law or the Dept. of Public Safety. And then, "Alaska might not have a legal definition".

    Hmmm.

    Okay.

    So without turning this discussion into a commentary on Juneau politics and such, how about it? Anyone out there have a succinct summary on the difference between an air charter and a transporter? I have bits and pieces, and of course the verbiage in the Alaska Statutes (which is anything but succinct).

    My goal is to provide a concise definition for folks reading our hunt planning pages.

    Thanks!

    -Mike
    Michael Strahan
    Site Owner
    Alaska Hunt Consultant
    1 (907) 229-4501

  • #2
    Do you mean an "Air Taxi", when referring the the phrase "Air Charter"?

    Comment


    • #3
      I doubt you would like my definition, as it would include the entire slimmmmy history of Transporter license in Alaska.
      "Life Is Either a Daring Adventure or Nothing" - Helen Keller

      Comment


      • #4
        Mike, don't you have a snapshot description in your book? If not, here's an excerpt from pg 74 of Float Draggin' Alaska, hopefully there are no typos on that page....

        Click image for larger version

Name:	pg 74.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	66.1 KB
ID:	2495418
        https://pristineventures.com

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd just go by one of the bigger air taxi companies at Lake Hood (Rust's, Trail Ridge, Alaska Air Taxi, etc) and chat with them. Anybody "holding out" for air transport must have at least a CFR 135 certificate issued by the FAA. That level of certification keeps people and cargo safer than just paying Joe Birdman the private pilot to take them somewhere.

          I'm not sure what the difference is between the federally issued 135 certificate and the additional "Transporter" certification issued by the state. Larry's description in his book seems to sum it up but the above companies can probably point you to the actual laws.

          Comment


          • #6
            i was thinking 135 is a FAA qualification and "transporter" is a license from big game commercial services which allows a 135 operator? to charge seperate rates to hunters and transporting game meat? i know we have a few 135 guys in here that might have a better handle on this one.
            Www.blackriverhunting.com
            Master guide 212

            Comment


            • #7
              "Air Taxi/Air Charter" are governed under FAA Part 135 Regs. For the most part in order to fly for hire you have to have a Part 135 certificate, along with a mountain of other paperwork from the Feds. "Transporter" is a term originating from the Big Game Commercial Services Board. You don't have to be a licensed Transporter to fly hunters in Alaska, but you do have to have a Part 135 Certificate (there are a few odd exceptions). If an Air Taxi advertises that they haul sportsman, that alone doesn't necessarily require them to be a transporter. What requires them to be a Transporter is if they target hunters, have special rates (higher hourly, flat rate, per hunter rate, etc) for hunters. An Air Taxi could get by without being a Transporter fairly easy if they just changed their hourly rate to $1,500/hour for a beaver for the month of September for example. It also has nothing to do with talking to hunters over the phone, email, etc, or renting them gear; it's a free country. The reality is being a transporter is really easy, minimal paperwork and makes things that much cleaner with Joe Public and the Brown Shirts, a great CYA. I've had a Transporter license for about 20 years and think it's a lot easy to get the license (pay the toll) and move on. There are 2 forms you complete, the contract with hunters, which I really like and a transporter report on each group. Forms are simple and quick to complete.

              I believe there are similar transporter rules for watercraft, ATV, etc I just don't know anything about it.

              Hope this helps.

              Karl Powers
              PaPa Bear Adventures

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KRP View Post
                "Air Taxi/Air Charter" are governed under FAA Part 135 Regs. For the most part in order to fly for hire you have to have a Part 135 certificate, along with a mountain of other paperwork from the Feds. "Transporter" is a term originating from the Big Game Commercial Services Board. You don't have to be a licensed Transporter to fly hunters in Alaska, but you do have to have a Part 135 Certificate (there are a few odd exceptions). If an Air Taxi advertises that they haul sportsman, that alone doesn't necessarily require them to be a transporter. What requires them to be a Transporter is if they target hunters, have special rates (higher hourly, flat rate, per hunter rate, etc) for hunters. An Air Taxi could get by without being a Transporter fairly easy if they just changed their hourly rate to $1,500/hour for a beaver for the month of September for example. It also has nothing to do with talking to hunters over the phone, email, etc, or renting them gear; it's a free country. The reality is being a transporter is really easy, minimal paperwork and makes things that much cleaner with Joe Public and the Brown Shirts, a great CYA. I've had a Transporter license for about 20 years and think it's a lot easy to get the license (pay the toll) and move on. There are 2 forms you complete, the contract with hunters, which I really like and a transporter report on each group. Forms are simple and quick to complete.

                I believe there are similar transporter rules for watercraft, ATV, etc I just don't know anything about it.

                Hope this helps.

                Karl Powers
                PaPa Bear Adventures
                Great stuff, Karl! Thanks for chiming in on this one. How are you folks handling this heat wave out in Bethel, by the way? Is the ice going out yet?

                -Mike
                Michael Strahan
                Site Owner
                Alaska Hunt Consultant
                1 (907) 229-4501

                Comment


                • #9
                  One big difference is that transporters don't always use airplanes. But hopefully all air charters do.
                  An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
                  - Jef Mallett

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The main difference as far as Air charters is concerned is if you have a transporters license you can sell Hunts and charge what ever you want for a hunt which is normally more than your hourly charter rate. If you don't have a transporters license you can only charge your normal hourly rate and no more. I am not sure but I think the law changed last year and if it was passed no one can transport hunters anymore without a transporters license but I am not sure if this passed or not.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So what if you are a "Transporter" using Horses, Llamas, Boats, Snow Machine, Nodwell, etc...???
                      "Life Is Either a Daring Adventure or Nothing" - Helen Keller

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cubdriver55 View Post
                        The main difference as far as Air charters is concerned is if you have a transporters license you can sell Hunts and charge what ever you want for a hunt which is normally more than your hourly charter rate. If you don't have a transporters license you can only charge your normal hourly rate and no more. I am not sure but I think the law changed last year and if it was passed no one can transport hunters anymore without a transporters license but I am not sure if this passed or not.
                        It passed...
                        I'm surprised there are not more people upset. The cheap drop off hunt is (in theory/probably) a thing of the past.
                        Guys who were not already a transporter - now either can be a transporter and jack up rates and sell hunts; or not haul hunters. Either way- you guys take it in the shorts, right?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So, if I'm reading the above correctly, prior to this new law you didn't actually need a "Transporter's License" to transport hunters or meat. If that was the case, why did a Unit 13 resident (I believe the resident was John Schandelmier?) get into so much trouble for hauling a moose out for a couple of hunters a few years ago?
                          Was the transporter's license different for air taxis than for ground transport?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Was the case. I'm not familiar with the situation you mentioned however.
                            Fed govt licenses air taxi to provide "on demand" air service. Typically.
                            Fishermen, flight see, miners, hikers, hunters, "wanna go there just cause" - doesn't matter. You wanna go to "x" that's it.
                            Now if u r a hunter - no can do.

                            Federal law prohibits "states from passing law infringing on air commerce" so I'm guessing it'll get sorted in court one day. Probably when my kids are old.

                            I understand why the board felt it necessary but for guys who don't do a lot of drop hunters (me) it makes life a little harder. Pay the money and contract every hunter etc or just cut it out completely? A lot of air taxis make their living off drop hunters so it's a easy decision for those.

                            Dunno. That's what I understand the situation to be.

                            My THOUGHT is- it's "you guys" taking a hit. Non airplane owning, airplane hunters. Prices go up overall surely...some guys quit drop hunters...,?? Speculation.

                            If not confused already-
                            "For the BGCSB resolution to affect a statute change, legislative action is required. According to BGCSB staff it appears unlikely this will happen during the 2014/15 legislative session."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AK-HUNT View Post
                              It passed...
                              I'm surprised there are not more people upset. The cheap drop off hunt is (in theory/probably) a thing of the past.
                              Guys who were not already a transporter - now either can be a transporter and jack up rates and sell hunts; or not haul hunters. Either way- you guys take it in the shorts, right?
                              I don't believe you are correct. I was at the entire December BGCSB meeting in Anchorage, and I don't believe any such regulation was passed. There has been discussion on this issue, and a sub-committee was formed to discuss air transporter/air taxi issues, but nothing was voted on by the board to create a new regulation.

                              What amazes me is the apparent lack of interest by air transporters and/or air taxi operators in this issue. I don't believe I've seen more than one or two air transporters, ever, at a BGCSB meeting. Yes, there have been discussions at these meetings as to exploring the possibility of making all air services who transport big game hunters obtain transporter licenses. There have also been discussions about eliminating the transporter license altogether. It astounds me that there have virtually been no members of the transporter or air taxi industries attending these meetings to voice their opinions or concerns, but rather seem to be content to allow members of the guiding industry make these decisions for them.

                              Chris

                              Comment

                              Footer Adsense

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X