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Difference Between an Air Charter and a Transporter

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  • #31
    airguide, with an extra 1200+/- dollars in annual paperwork fees now, how much do ou anticipate the cost of flying going up for everyone?my costs went up around 1500 a year for my paperwork. not sure how or if i'm gonna compensate for that.
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
    Master guide 212

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    • #32
      Originally posted by BRWNBR View Post
      airguide, with an extra 1200+/- dollars in annual paperwork fees now, how much do ou anticipate the cost of flying going up for everyone?my costs went up around 1500 a year for my paperwork. not sure how or if i'm gonna compensate for that.
      You are a registered guide so other than the costs they have already put on you with new fees and the $850 to renew your license, you shouldn't see a significant increase, as no Transporter Activity Report is required when flying for a guide operation. However flying costs will be spread around and you will see an increase, the next move is to establish Transporter use areas and that will require a Transporter to register for areas perhaps ninety days ahead of the season. This will severely limit the way Transporters do business, and the registration would effect my ability to fly into a Transporter use area that I have not paid in advance to fly into. This is still in the works by the BGCS board and will hopefully die on the vine, just remember the division is looking for revenue! In all fairness, I am considered an Air Taxi and don't have to register to fly you into your camps, this will certainly drive up the cost for residents. I think in their efforts to get more funding they will actually lose funding, many guides who are not active will not renew and Transporters will just operate as Air Taxis. "stay tuned"

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      • #33
        Originally posted by airguide View Post
        You are a registered guide so other than the costs they have already put on you with new fees and the $850 to renew your license, you shouldn't see a significant increase, as no Transporter Activity Report is required when flying for a guide operation. However flying costs will be spread around and you will see an increase, the next move is to establish Transporter use areas and that will require a Transporter to register for areas perhaps ninety days ahead of the season. This will severely limit the way Transporters do business, and the registration would effect my ability to fly into a Transporter use area that I have not paid in advance to fly into. This is still in the works by the BGCS board and will hopefully die on the vine, just remember the division is looking for revenue! In all fairness, I am considered an Air Taxi and don't have to register to fly you into your camps, this will certainly drive up the cost for residents. I think in their efforts to get more funding they will actually lose funding, many guides who are not active will not renew and Transporters will just operate as Air Taxis. "stay tuned"
        Just to clarify my last statement, I am a licensed Transporter and a Part 135 Air Taxi, as confusing as it is there are times when my flight is considered as either a Transporter or an Air Taxi. It is getting where we can get in more trouble over the paperwork than what we do in the field.

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        • #34
          "Transporters are also required to pay a $850 fee to maintain their license, these fee and license increases will make flying more expensive for everyone. "

          i was going off this statemen, wondering how much more exspensive it was gonna make it for u to operate
          Www.blackriverhunting.com
          Master guide 212

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          • #35
            Originally posted by airguide View Post
            Just to clarify my last statement, I am a licensed Transporter and a Part 135 Air Taxi, as confusing as it is there are times when my flight is considered as either a Transporter or an Air Taxi. It is getting where we can get in more trouble over the paperwork than what we do in the field.
            Can you provide an example of a flight operation that falls under transporter licensing and does not apply to 135 rules?

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            • #36
              I believe he means that all transporters have to operate under part 135, but not all operators that operate under part 135 are transporters so some times he simply wears his part 135 hat, & sometimes he puts his transporter hat on over the top of the 135 hat...
              Vance in AK.

              Matthew 6:33
              "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Birdstrike View Post
                The Air Taxis have enough regulation as it is trying to comply with all of the DOT regulations (FAA, HazMat), insurance, etc. The BOG, BGCSB, etc need to regulate hunting by regulating the hunters and not meddling with the federally regulated Part 135 operators. However, the FAA should close the loophole allowing some guides to fly under the much less onerous Part 91. Whether someone is paying an Air Taxi, or a guide who is actually doing the flying, the level of safety should be the same for the paying passenger/client. All of the aircraft and pilots operating under CFR 135 will accomplish that.

                i know my opinion will be unpopular with the hunting/fishing guides and lodges that get around 135 certification. Most clients do not know the difference between part 135 or part 91 and what they are paying for, or possibly subjecting themselves to.
                All due respect, but I have flown aboard a far, far greater number of clapped - out, pencil-whipped 135 aircraft than 91, with "professional" pilots much more concerned with filling out trip sheets and BS'ing on the radio than looking out the windshield. Not to generalize of course as this is not always the case.

                You seem to have a good grasp of the system, and with that understanding you must also know there are a million ways for 135 operators to cheat, and as such many feel financially forced to do so.

                At any rate, the FAA tried to force part 91 incidental into 135 back in the late-90's I believe it was. Obviously it was not successful.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by tsunami View Post
                  Can you provide an example of a flight operation that falls under transporter licensing and does not apply to 135 rules?
                  NO!I am always Part 135. However registered guides and their assistants can fly under Part 91 when flying the guides clients according to Alaska statute AS 08.54. 610,(c). which states that a registered guide may provide transportation services, personally or through an assistant.
                  Some in the FAA will tell you the same, that flying for a guide is under Part 135.

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                  • #39
                    Correction : Some in the FAA will tell you the same, that flying for a guide is under Part 91.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Vance in AK View Post
                      I believe he means that all transporters have to operate under part 135, but not all operators that operate under part 135 are transporters so some times he simply wears his part 135 hat, & sometimes he puts his transporter hat on over the top of the 135 hat...
                      Thanks Vance

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by airguide View Post
                        NO!I am always Part 135. However registered guides and their assistants can fly under Part 91 when flying the guides clients according to Alaska statute AS 08.54. 610,(c). which states that a registered guide may provide transportation services, personally or through an assistant.
                        If you are always Part 135 why do you even have a transporter license?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by tsunami View Post
                          If you are always Part 135 why do you even have a transporter license?
                          I wonder that myself sometimes! A Transporter can advertise big game hunting services, such as "drop off hunts" and can charge a package rate rather than have to use a standard hourly rate, also a transporter license gives me the option of wearing either hat. Air Taxis are not allowed to advertise for hunting transportation services, or charge more than the usual tariff or charter rate for the carriage of big game hunters, their equipment or animals harvested by hunters.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by airguide View Post
                            I wonder that myself sometimes! A Transporter can advertise big game hunting services, such as "drop off hunts" and can charge a package rate rather than have to use a standard hourly rate, also a transporter license gives me the option of wearing either hat. Air Taxis are not allowed to advertise for hunting transportation services, or charge more than the usual tariff or charter rate for the carriage of big game hunters, their equipment or animals harvested by hunters.
                            So, you need the transporter license to "advertise" directly to UNGUIDED hunters" so a transporter can "charge" UNGUIDED hunters more AND then then the transporters are required to operate by Part 135 to actually provide a flight? Right?

                            Wow...the way I'm starting to understand this "transporter" licensing thing is that it seems more like non resident and resident UNGUIDED hunters would be far better off to choose to hire an operator who is NOT a licensed transporter?

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                            • #44
                              Larry, see why I didn't put anything in print on this?

                              Anybody care to summarize this mess for the average guy out there? Back to the original question, slightly modified:

                              In 25 words or less, what's the difference between an air charter and a transporter?

                              -Mike
                              Michael Strahan
                              Site Owner
                              Alaska Hunt Consultant
                              1 (907) 229-4501

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                              • #45
                                It would help if someone would layout the history of this........It all goes back the the use of the word "OUTFITTER" by those directly competing with the Hunting Guiding Industry, but without a Guide License. And to appease them for stopping using the word "Outfitter".......they gave an automatic Registered Guides License, and many of them knew nothing about hunting or firearms........zero. They had a river boat, or an ocean boat or aircraft, or horses, and they advertised as "XXX" Guides and Outfitters. They were in the business of dropping off fishermen, and hunters. APHA said, "You need a Guide License to use the word "OUTFITTER".........they say, "No we don't". And at that time they did not, the attorney general said so.

                                So after a few years it was agreed, and the law was changed so only Registered Guides could use the word "Outfitter". Well, after they got a free Registered Guides License, and had to start dealing with those laws and regulations. Some said, "The hell with this". We need a "transporter" classification for what we do, and we don't want any of that paper work those Registered Guides have to do.

                                YES, I skipped over a lot, but that is the highlights. APHA & the Registered Guides were the BIG looser in that deal.



                                Originally posted by tsunami View Post
                                So, you need the transporter license to "advertise" directly to UNGUIDED hunters" so a transporter can "charge" UNGUIDED hunters more AND then then the transporters are required to operate by Part 135 to actually provide a flight? Right?

                                Wow...the way I'm starting to understand this "transporter" licensing thing is that it seems more like non resident and resident UNGUIDED hunters would be far better off to choose to hire an operator who is NOT a licensed transporter?
                                "Life Is Either a Daring Adventure or Nothing" - Helen Keller

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