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Posting fake conspiracies is ok, posting real gov lies isn't?

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  • #16
    Just as a point of reference, since some of us can't remember a day ago let alone a few months ago; they were projecting 2,200,000 dead from this at the time the interview with Woodward was filmed. As has been pointed out we are closing in on 200,000. It is impossible to say the US has had the worst reaction to this pandemic, there are far too many varying factors at play. If we want to compare US States we can get closer to something resembling a true comparison, but even that has numerous failings.

    Thankfully this disease isn't as bad as first thought and thankfully not all politicians panicked and attempted to make political hay out of a global pandemic. It's regrettable that so many have tried to turn a novel disease into something it isn't.
    “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” Physicist ― Richard Feynman

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Cheeser View Post


      There is nothing political about this thread. 200,000 Americans are dead and we need to find out why that number is so large and why the US has the worst covid response on the planet. And now we know one factor in our country's failure to respond to covid - the person in charge of our national covid response has admitted, on video, that he was lying to us from day 1.

      Everyone should be interested in knowing how and why we got here. And what we need to do to prevent another 200,000 Americans from dying. Knowing who is admitting they lied to us about covid is an important and critical part of the covid discussion.
      No big mystery, 200k dead because we are the third most populated country on the planet, AND..
      pay attention here, we have liberties to travel and generally do as we please. I am not interested in a debate on how you might feel about those liberties in respect to protecting others and all that drivel... only saying our constitution allows us to be a very mobile country, and there are a lot of us. Thankfully the president handled it accordingly. You found his desire to prevent panic offensive? Please do some research on how many politicians have distorted the truth, for their benefit.
      “We have digressed from a Nation of Revolutionaries to a country of entitlements"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post

        Well for starters, we have a president who has been desperately trying to reduce the flow of traffic across our borders, but somebody (cough, democrats) has been so adamantly opposed to the idea that we pretty much let covid fly right into the country. Not sure why he is to blame for so many people flying into our country with covid. Perhaps if we had stricter borders we would have had a better response.

        And I don't understand what all the hype is all about. If there was a real and present danger in your neighborhood, and your kids were scared, you would try to calm them down and reassure them that they will be okay. Is that lying? I don't think so. I think it's called trying to reduce panic and worry.

        The president himself admitted that he tried to downplay the threat of covid, because basically creating panic and worry does nothing to help the public navigate a crisis.

        I'll admit that I'm not the biggest fan of Trump or his personality, but I think he has handled this crisis about as good as a president could reasonably handle it. Sure, he's not a polished politician and his choice of words are horrible, but I think you are over-sensationalizing the situation for your benefit and this thread is TOTALLY political!
        Yep, hes not a career politician and says the ****dest stuff sometimes. Wasn't too long ago folks were clamoring that we need to get rid of career politicians, finally that's happened and now people want to go back.
        “We have digressed from a Nation of Revolutionaries to a country of entitlements"

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        • #19
          Meanwhile I'm still trying to figure out how he paid the Porn star since he is always bankrupt?

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          • #20
            200k have not died from CV. Death rate is less than the annual cold and flu.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by outaMT View Post
              200k have not died from CV. Death rate is less than the annual cold and flu.
              That is absolutely false. The death rate is significantly higher than the flu or common cold. This isn't a matter of opinion. Facts exist.

              The death count will likely be increased when the dust settles, as the number of excess mortalities when compared to the normal death rate in the U.S. significantly exceeds 200,000. While Covid is not the sole source of these mortalities, it likely is a contributing factor in many. Sorting out the details takes time, though, as does the process of science.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post


                And I don't understand what all the hype is all about. If there was a real and present danger in your neighborhood, and your kids were scared, you would try to calm them down and reassure them that they will be okay. Is that lying? I don't think so. I think it's called trying to reduce panic and worry.
                I don't think your analogy holds water. Yes, you would try to calm your kids, but you wouldn't try to convince them that the danger doesn't exist and that they don't need to do anything to mitigate the risk. If your smoke detector goes off and you notice a waft of smoke coming from downstairs, you're not going to unplug the smoke detectors and tell the kids that they don't need to worry about it. Sure, you'll encourage them not to panic, but you'll also usher them out of the house as quickly as possible.

                The President said on tape that this virus is significantly more deadly than the flu. He told the public the exact opposite. He acknowledged that this was going to get much bigger quickly and that it was going to be difficult to fight. In public he said that it was just going to magically go away.

                Reducing panic and worry while also acknowledging risks and encouraging behavior that could mitigate those risks are not mutually exclusive.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Brian M View Post

                  I don't think your analogy holds water. Yes, you would try to calm your kids, but you wouldn't try to convince them that the danger doesn't exist and that they don't need to do anything to mitigate the risk. If your smoke detector goes off and you notice a waft of smoke coming from downstairs, you're not going to unplug the smoke detectors and tell the kids that they don't need to worry about it. Sure, you'll encourage them not to panic, but you'll also usher them out of the house as quickly as possible.

                  The President said on tape that this virus is significantly more deadly than the flu. He told the public the exact opposite. He acknowledged that this was going to get much bigger quickly and that it was going to be difficult to fight. In public he said that it was just going to magically go away.

                  Reducing panic and worry while also acknowledging risks and encouraging behavior that could mitigate those risks are not mutually exclusive.
                  Good points, but I still think people are judging him too critically for this. I admit, the president doesn't always choose the best words, but I don't think it's as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Just my 2 cents Brian.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by alexander View Post
                    Meanwhile I'm still trying to figure out how he paid the Porn star since he is always bankrupt?
                    Funny, at least he paid for it and didn't take advantage of young interns through intimidation. Doesn't make it right, she was selling and he was buying. Plenty of career politicians have wielded their power to take advantage of people. Be careful where you point fingers.
                    “We have digressed from a Nation of Revolutionaries to a country of entitlements"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Brian M View Post

                      That is absolutely false. The death rate is significantly higher than the flu or common cold. This isn't a matter of opinion. Facts exist.

                      The death count will likely be increased when the dust settles, as the number of excess mortalities when compared to the normal death rate in the U.S. significantly exceeds 200,000. While Covid is not the sole source of these mortalities, it likely is a contributing factor in many. Sorting out the details takes time, though, as does the process of science.
                      I dont agree, yes its a bad news flu, however the MAJORITY of people that get it have minor symptoms and that is a fact. The Spanish flu killed people within days, young old, whatever, days...! The economic and physiological repercussions far out weight the actual flu. If its a concern, take precautions. Lets not change the country for ever based on a virus.. oops to late for that eh. Without getting political, which is really hard, its rather obvious this event was used to anothers advantage. Usually event's that affect so many Americans bring people together...... not this time. Apparently we have to blame someone else to make ourselves feel better.
                      “We have digressed from a Nation of Revolutionaries to a country of entitlements"

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Akgramps View Post
                        Plenty of career politicians have wielded their power to take advantage of people. Be careful where you point fingers.
                        Baloney. Do point fingers. Do call out corruption. Do run criminals out of office. But don't tolerate or justify criminality, and don't defend criminals with whataboutisms.
                        ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
                        I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
                        The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Akgramps View Post

                          I dont agree, yes its a bad news flu, however the MAJORITY of people that get it have minor symptoms and that is a fact.
                          Also a fact: The majority of people who contract the flu also exhibit minor symptoms. SARS-CoV-2 is not an influenza virus and it is resulting in a much higher death rate than influenza. It doesn't matter whether you "agree" with the facts, or not, because opinions don't carry the same weight as facts, and facts don't care about opinions.
                          ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
                          I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
                          The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

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                          • #28
                            I take it serious because i think too many people don't. Better safe than sorry. I haven't left Alexander creek since last March and am doing fine just living the life of peace and quite. When people show up at the homestead I talk to them outside. I actually love not seeing pavement or city lights in over a half a year. Might just have to practice this even after the Pandemic!

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                            • #29
                              All you mask believers have no clue what has been done to this Country over a virus..
                              “We have digressed from a Nation of Revolutionaries to a country of entitlements"

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Akgramps View Post
                                All you mask believers have no clue what has been done to this Country over a virus..
                                <br/><br/>Here’s the thing - some of the protective measures wouldn’t be necessary if we would take this more seriously. Countries that took quick action have largely returned to life as normal. Schools can reopen because their transmission rate has plummeted. Restaurants, bars, or whatever else people want to do have come back in many places because they were proactive and took this as the serious threat that it is. But too many Americans, in the name of “freedom”, refused to do their part. And so here we are. What has been and continues to be done to this country is because too many were unwilling to be a little self sacrificial and unwilling to listen to expert medical and scientific advice.<br/><br/>I don’t like the mandates either. I wish I could be in my classroom with my students rather than teaching over Zoom. I wish that I could join my buddies at a brewery and do all of the things we used to do without a second thought. We’ll get there, but we could already be there if we’d each just do our part. Concerned about lockdowns and government lockdowns? Wear a simple mask when in public. It’s really not that hard, and I’m pretty darn sure that wearing a mask wasn’t the kind of tyranny that the Founders were concerned about.

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