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  • #16
    Factory ammo

    Not exactly on every shelf of every gun shop but easy enough to order online or just load your own if your into that. I think you could get to 2400+ fps with the 310g Woodleigh if you thought you needed to. Try these guys (sold at midway too). Ive never used em since I roll my own, but have heard good things from a couple freinds that tried em:


    http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...555cd29fde1309

    Josh

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    • #17
      I think your 35 whelen balistics with a 310 gr bullet are, how shall we say optomistic. That's treadin on the 375 H&H magnum, in a much smaller case, and a smaller bore. I could see the 358 norma getting 2400fps w/ a 310 gr, but the whelen is at best 2200 fps with a 310 gr bullet.

      And since this list includes less common chamberings, the 358 norma should be mentioned, 280 gr swift a-frame @ 2500 fps would put it at the top of my list.
      Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

      If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

      Comment


      • #18
        Ballistics

        Paul,

        I am not speaking from personal experience with the 310 grain Woodleigh. I am merely passing on what I consider to be reliable published data, I read it on the internet so its gotta be true right?
        I keep an eye on what is out there as far as load data ammo etc..but personally I only shoot 250's in my whelen. If I were to need something bigger than a 250g bullet I would most likely go to a .375 cal. But I would feel pretty good with some of the Double Tap 310g ammo or similar handloads as well. The orginal poster asked for opinions between a few specific calibers as a "stopper" so thats what I gave him. I agree with you on the Norma, thats a serious whuppin stick but it wasnt mentioned in the OP. Cheers.

        sources:

        http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=174

        ".35 Whelen 310gr. Woodleigh Weldcore JSP 20rds.

        The true heavyweight! This loading brings your Whelen's stopping power up to the next level.
        Exterior Ballistics: 150yd. zero
        100yds - 1.4" high 2130fps / 3122ft/lbs
        150yds - zeroed 2050fps / 2884ft/lbs
        200yds - 3.4" low 1966fps / 2661ft/lbs
        250yds - 9.0" low 1887fps / 2452ft/lbs
        300yds - 17.2" low 1810fps / 2256ft/lbs
        Caliber : .35 Whelen
        Bullet : 310gr Woodleigh Weldcore JSP
        Ballistics : 2300fps - 3641 ft./lbs. - 24.0" bbl. Rem 700"


        ~and~

        http://35cal.com/loading.html#rel15

        "Subject: Re: 310gr Woodleigh SN load data request
        Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 19:58:09
        For the 35 Whelan.
        STD primer, Fed 210. Win WLR
        310gr Woodleigh SN
        55-58 grains H4350 for 2230 fps
        51 grains IMR4320 for 2220 fps
        57 grains Reloader 15 for 2435 fps
        You need a 12" twist to stabilise them in the Whelan, not sure about the Norma/"



        Josh

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        • #19
          I've loaded for the 35 whelen ackley, 350 rem mag and 350 rigby mag. I haven't tried the 310 woodleigh, but have loaded just about every 250 gr bullet on the market.

          Extrapolating I'd expect one to loose 300-400 fps when going from a 250 gr to 310 gr bullet, and closer to 400 fps. You can check just about any loading manual for a variety of cartridges and you'll find when bullet weight goes up 10%, velocity drops ~200 fps. So go up to 275 gr, drop 200 fps, go up again to 300 gr and drop another 200 fps.

          At best the 35 whelen will push 250's 2500 fps, maybe a tad more, and the whelen ackley will do 2600 fps, at 2700 fps the ackley will loosen primer pockets, been there done that. The gun wouldn't group when with lighter loads so was re-chambered to a 350 rigby and now safely drives 250's 2700 fps.

          That puts the 35 whelen at 2100-2200 fps with 310's, and the 35 whelen ackley at 2200-2300 fps.

          I have to assume that the "57 grains Reloader 15 for 2435 fps " is for a 250 gr bullet, as that jives with all the data I've seen for the whelen. I know folks that use 58 gr of RL 15 under 250 gr for 2500 fps from the 35 whelen. 57 gr RL 15 under the 310 woodleigh would have to run extremely high, dangerously high pressures in the whelen.

          It's interesting they test there load in a Remington 35 whelen, because as far as I know they were all produced with 1-16" barrels and wouldn't be expected to accurately shoot the 310 woodleigh.

          I contacted woodleigh about 10 years ago to see if my 1-14" whelen ackley would stabalize the 310 gr, they said they didn't know, 1-12" would be fine, 1-16" no go, 1-14" maybe. I never got around to trying them as I figured the 250 gr swift a-frame at higher velocity would be just as good, if not better.
          Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

          If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

          Comment


          • #20
            bear stopper

            Of the four listed I would venture to guess the 338 Win Mag with 270g A-frames would be the best bear stopper combo.

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            • #21
              Whelen

              Well this looks like a case of actual experience trumping published load data...hmmmm....never seen that before eh . Like I said, ive never used anything bigger than the 250g bullets in a whelen so the info I passed on was just that...second hand. I will say I wouldnt be afraid if I had to "stop" any animal around these parts and I had was 310g bullet moving along at a scant 2200fps, however, as stated before, Id prefer the 375.

              Josh

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              • #22
                well I think bigger holes are better than smaller holes.....with velocity taking a back seat most of the time. I would pick one of the 35's hands down.
                “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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                • #23
                  Although the 338win will push a heavier bullet somewhat faster than the other three, any of them should work well as a bear stopper at close range. Just use a good heavy bullet. Most "African" cartridges shoot heavies at about 2300fps for deep bone breaking penatration. At 30/40yds or less good bullet stability won't make much difference either.

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                  • #24
                    2300

                    the loads given in a post earlier are correct.the whelan will push 310s 2300.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Alangaq View Post
                      well I think bigger holes are better than smaller holes.....with velocity taking a back seat most of the time. I would pick one of the 35's hands down.
                      Exactly!

                      In fact Alangaq was the one who spotted the .356 Win 94BB that I scored at the gun show this year. Good eye and good advice. I will carry it this year to compare against my .338-06 & .375 Win. Should be a nice balance between the two.
                      Afflicted by condition human

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                      • #26
                        To step up from the 250 grain, 358 cal. bullets would be a good job for the 9.3x62 Mauser. The 9.3 is chambered in some nice, light weight rifles on the same action size as the Whelen. Tikka, Sako, and CZ all make compact rifles capable of pushing 286 gr. bullets above 2,550fps. The Swift reloading manual has published velocities slightly above 2,350fps. with their 300gr. heavyweight. The 9.3 having a faster twist.....should handle the heaviest bullet offered without question. Does anyone own a 9.3 as their medium bore stopper?
                        www.freightercanoes.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          This is a tricky question. Will the rifle be used for self-defense against brown bears, or to hunt them? I've had to "stop" two brown bears over the years while out moose hunting. I shot both with a .338 Win Mag using 250 gr Nosler Partitions over a handload of IMR4350. Both were one shot kills, but the first I head shot and it dropped in its tracks, while the second I heart shot and it went another 10 yards before dropping. I feel I was lucky both times.

                          I have seen brown bears shot multiple times with 375's, 12 guages, 458's, etc., and still keep going for far too long. Once a bear has its adrenelin up they can be hard to put down. For self defense I would go with a big, heavy bullet in something like a 45-70 Marlin guide gun. For hunting I would prefer nothing less than a .338 Win Mag with a 250 gr or heavier bullet. My personal favorite is a 375 H&H or the new Ruger with 300 gr Nosler partitions.

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                          • #28
                            I'll be primarily backing up my two sons (12 and 15 yrs old) who will carrying a 7x57 Mauser and a .308 Win which they hope to use on moose and/or caribou. I usually carry a stainless/synthethic .338 WinMag with 250 grain NP in Alaska but I also have a .45-70 Guide Gun, .375 H&H, .416 Taylor, .458 Lott, and a .470 Capstick, which I prefer not to expose to the inclement conditions of a float/hunt in September (with the exception of the GG).

                            In addition to using the medium bore as backup, I'd like to use it for longer shots after my boys have taken their animals. Whether I get to use my gun for hunting or not is not as important to me as having a stopper to keep my boys safe. If I have to I can take the Taylor but if the medium bore, with a well placed shot, can do it most of the time then I'll go with that.

                            The .338 would probably suffice but I've been looking at a .350 RemMag which I could get at a very reasonable price. Also, I've been thinking of having either a .338-06 or a .35 Whelen built. Those are the reason for my asking for opinions/advice.

                            Thanks,
                            Rainydayhunter

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              "medium bore stopping rifle"

                              That's an oxy-moron if I've every heard one! Medium bores are NOT stopping rifles. They may be addaquet to hunt a large animal, but that does not make it a stopping rifle. .375s have killed MANY elephants, but that hardly makes it an ideal stopping rifle for elephants. .338s have killed god knows how many bears, but that hardly makes it a stopping rifle. Stopping rifles are above and beyond the minimum that most would consider a reasonable round for hunting the animal. I would say stopping rifles for a brown bear would start at 9.3mm or .375. A .300 or .338 placed correctly may kill the hell out of a brown bear, but that hardly means those calibres are ideal for any situation especially when shots aren't placed perfectly. Stopping rifles aren't for when everything goes right. They're for times when everything goes wrong. If I were a guide here I'd carry a .416+ bolt or better yet a .450+ double rifle.

                              My 2 cents.

                              Brett

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                While I am fond of the medium bores, and am especially fond of my ruger 350 rem mag, I will conclede they aren't stopper rifles. Fully sufficient for hunting and less than ideal shots, but stoppers they aren't.

                                I've always thought that a 40 cal pushing a 350 gr @ 2500-2700 fps is as good as it gets in terms of putting the smack on large soft skinned animals, and at reasonable recoil levels. Of what you have, the 416 taylor w/ 350's @ 2500 would be outstanding. Zeroed @ 200, it'll be aim and shoot out to 250 yds, and with quality bullets will drive through any AK game even on angling shots.
                                Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

                                If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

                                Comment

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