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Swift A Frames compared to Nosler Part

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  • Swift A Frames compared to Nosler Part

    Anyone have any thoughts about the A-Frames?
    I have never used them. Just the Nosler partitions which seemed fine....
    Float-CFI, Photo Guide, Fishing Guide, Remote Kayaking
    Guest Cabin, Flight Reviews, Aerial Tours

  • #2
    Originally posted by Float Pilot View Post
    Anyone have any thoughts about the A-Frames?
    I have never used them. Just the Nosler partitions which seemed fine....
    The bottom line difference is that the A-Frame retains higher than 80% of its weight, even after expanding, while the Partition may sometimes lose most of it's nose and retain around 60%+ or its weight.

    Both are "controlled-expansion" bullets. The partition expands faster, while the A-frame may take a fraction of a second longer depending on the velocity each one is launched at.

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    • #3
      A=Frame

      Makes me wish that the Bullet manufactures would have "sample packs"
      Just 5 or 10 so I good see if they stabilize in my barrel. My reloading bench is decorated with 90% full boxes of bullets that never worked out....
      Although they do make ok slingshot ammo from time to time...
      Float-CFI, Photo Guide, Fishing Guide, Remote Kayaking
      Guest Cabin, Flight Reviews, Aerial Tours

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      • #4
        In my opinion the Swift A frames can best be described as a more durable partition. Or a partition on steroids. Simply a much better bullet for a slightly higher cost.

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        • #5
          My experience with A-Frames show them holding over 90% of their weight. My Ruger 338WM shoots the 225 gr. A-Frames especially well.
          The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! (Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945)

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          • #6
            I've never recovered enough of either from game to say which is better, so I shoot both in a gun and decide which is most accurate. Okay, okay. I have recovered exactly one Nosler out of hundreds of animals and no Aframes, so I guess Aframes must be better, right?

            Seriously, I recovered the one (started as a 165gr 30 cal) from a deer shot end to end at about 150 yards. It weighed 137 grains.

            I really care a lot more about smaller groups with my hunting bullets than a little better theoretical penetration. I can measure group size, but when penetration is already complete, it's pretty hard to choose one over the other. YMMV, but I wouldn't sacrifice accuracy in favor of theoretical penetration. Shoot whichever performs best in your gun, then shoot enough animals to finally recover a bullet.
            "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
            Merle Haggard

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            • #7
              And what´s about Trophy Bonded Bear Claws / Partition / A-frame???

              I used so far only Nosler Partition and Blaistic Tips, but thought about loading some BearClaws or A-frames some day...

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              • #8
                A-frames vs Partition (round one)

                Float Pilot,

                My take on A-frames vs Partition. It depends!

                That wasn't much help. But I used to hunt with this fellow who, when asked about his bullets, would say "I never had one sprout legs and run off." I don't know if he meant the bullet, or the quarry, but I think he meant the bullets worked. Definately, both are in this category.

                Both bullets are dual core with a bulkhead of jacket material between the front and rear core. (Actually a billet of copper milled out at both ends then filled with the cores.) Both are lead core but the A-frame has the front core bonded to the jacket. Also Swift use soft copper and the partitions are now gilding metal which is copper with a small amount of zinc as an alloy. The soft copper stretches more but doesn't rupture, the alloy is more resistant to tearing, so is a little tougher. The bonded core of the A-frame keeps the front core attached to the back half and most of the time the front of the partition is destroyed (creating massive wounding) and the back half is found under the hide.

                I would say that if your rifle delivers muzzle velocity of about 2800 fps or less, the Partition is a better bullet than anything available today. By better I'm talking about termnal performance, not accuracy. Accuracy is a personal preference as to what is good enough but, partitions are generally very accurate bullets. This 2800 fps is really impact velocity but we use muzzle velocity as we can't know ahead of time how far our target will be. This varies from caliber to caliber but basically at "standard velocity" the partition is it.

                At magnum velocity, or impact velocity greater than 2800 fps or maybe 2400 for the big bores (40 cal. and up), the A-frame is better. Higher impact energy puts much greater strain on a bullet and higher velocity or just heavier (400 grain) bullets deliver more impact energy. For the hard hitters the Swift is superior to the partition and will retain more weight and penetrate better.

                There are many variables in this so only guidelines can be given but this has held true for me for a long while and for a number of animals.

                The 30-06, 180 gr, the 338 WM, 250 gr, and the 375 H&H, 260 & 300 gr, all perform very well with the partition. However with the heavier bullets and heavier thicker bodied animals I would opt for the Swift A-frames in the 338 and 375. When I discovered the 30-06 and 180 grain partitions and found a rifle that would send them out at 2750 fps into an inch or less, I never had any need for a 30 caliber magnum. This combo is hard to beat. I don't use the '06 for huge or carnivorous types but for everything from springbuck to eland and coos deer to elk, it has been all that any hunter could hope for. And many animals in excess of 300 yards expired after receiving a single partition from this rifle.

                I consider the A-frame ideal for the 338 and moose or grizzly, I would prefer it over the partition. With the partition and moose, I'd want only broad side shots and take out lungs with it.
                Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?


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                • #9
                  It will be in a 350 remington Mag this time.
                  I was used to the 358 Norma Mag velocities in the past.

                  But with the stubby 350 rem Mag, I will only be getting @2500fps at the muzzle for a 250 grain slug and around 2700fps for a 225gr. Still a good little brush gun out to 250.

                  In 358
                  I have a bunch of Speer and Hornady 250 grain spitzers,
                  some Nosler partitions (250s)
                  and a box of 225 grain Seirrra Boat-tails that refused to shoot worth a darn in my old 358 Norma.
                  Plus I have some old 275 grain solids around here someplace...


                  xx
                  Float-CFI, Photo Guide, Fishing Guide, Remote Kayaking
                  Guest Cabin, Flight Reviews, Aerial Tours

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                  • #10
                    I think bonded bullets are better

                    The partition is certainly a proven bullet so I won't say anything bad about it. But in terms of terminal performance, I don't see many situations where the bonded core of the Swift would be a significant disadvantage. On dangerous game I'd much rather have the Swift. In fact the Aframe and North Forks toughest soft would be my top choices for dangerous game except elephants where you need a solid.

                    For long range big game shooting, which means non dangerous game, I think bullets like the Nosler Accubond and Swift Scirocco 2 will steal sales away from the partition because they have higher BC. If they are more accurate than the partition, they will steal a lot of sales. I've taken a few hogs with them, 180gr .308WM, and they penetrate a long ways. They are much better than the cup and core and as good as partition on penetration in my experience.

                    The thing is you really need to shoot hundreds of animals to be sure. Few of us have that much experience, so we have to learn from others. I appreciate all views!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SlimPickins View Post
                      The partition is certainly a proven bullet so I won't say anything bad about it. But in terms of terminal performance, I don't see many situations where the bonded core of the Swift would be a significant disadvantage. On dangerous game I'd much rather have the Swift. In fact the Aframe and North Forks toughest soft would be my top choices for dangerous game except elephants where you need a solid.

                      For long range big game shooting, which means non dangerous game, I think bullets like the Nosler Accubond and Swift Scirocco 2 will steal sales away from the partition because they have higher BC. If they are more accurate than the partition, they will steal a lot of sales. I've taken a few hogs with them, 180gr .308WM, and they penetrate a long ways. They are much better than the cup and core and as good as partition on penetration in my experience.

                      The thing is you really need to shoot hundreds of animals to be sure. Few of us have that much experience, so we have to learn from others. I appreciate all views!
                      The A-Frame is a highly regarded bullet by hunters in Africa. For bears i would rather use the A-Frame to the Partition, but the Partition has not let me down on moose so far. The only problem have had with it is the nose completely disintegrating when it hit a moose's lungs. The round was a Federal 250-grain NOS HE, and the moose was broadside 275 yards away. Id did kill the moose pretty fast (almost on the spot), but all I found from the bullet were pieces of lead. I never found the jacket, even though it didn't pass through the moose. But even so, it did the jobs it's designed to do.

                      A couple of days later I saw a very large grizzly, and as I tried to find it through my rifle-scope from approximately 150 yards back, I was a little apprehensive thinking about the same ammo/bullet in the chamber, and the possibility of hitting the bear on the shoulder. But the bear disappeared in the brush before I could shoot it. I usually have 230-grain Lubalox-coated FS and also a few 275-grain A-Frame, just in case I have to shoot a bear through the shoulders. I just didn't have time to reload my rifle.

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                      • #12
                        I've seen a few notes now about the accubonds expolding on impact and not even exiting on a perfect broadside shot. The don't seem to reatin thier weight much and i would stay away from the for large game. went on a caribou hunt last year with a guy and he shot one with his 375H&H at 100 yards and the entrace wound was horrific and the bullet didn't even make it to the opposite side of the rib cage.
                        Stick with the partition if they havn't let you down.
                        I had a similar discussion on here a few month ago and realized why change from a good thing.
                        Justin
                        Justin

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                        • #13
                          BTW

                          I also shot a caribou this year myself at 350 yards with a .338 RUM 225 gr partitions and I found the bullet (due to my somewhat poor shot placement) it had lost it's top (which I also found) and together they weighed just under 200 grains. not too shaby and the bou didn't even take 1 step.
                          Just my .02
                          justin
                          Justin

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                          • #14
                            The A-Frames are a better bullet IMO. Top notch stuff. And from my experience, they have a habit of making BIG exit holes in brown bears.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Matt View Post
                              The A-Frames are a better bullet IMO. Top notch stuff. And from my experience, they have a habit of making BIG exit holes in brown bears.
                              I don't understand why nowdays people want their bullet to exit the animal. To me and the way I was taught, if the bullet expends all its energy inside the animal and the bullet penetrated the vitals the way we wanted it to penetrate and expanded the way we wanted the bullet to expand, that is better than the bullet not expending all its energy inside the animal and passing through the animal. I just started shooting again after a 15 year absence. What changed in the 15 years that I wasn't shooting?

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