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  • Remington and bolts

    We borrowed a friends Remington 700 for last weeks sheep hunt and we had problem with the bolt always wanting to open. I knew about this before hand but didn't think it would be an issue but it eventually got to a point where the wife had to carry it inside her back pack. We really liked this rifle and she shot it well so we had been considering buying one for her but with this issue with the bolt we may have to look at something different. Personally I own several Winchesters and love them but wanted something different for her. I do know all about the 2 position safety and thats why the bolt opens but is there any way to fix this problem through a gunsmith or is it just a quirk with Remingtons?

  • #2
    Remingtons

    Have your local gunsmith install the old type Remington safety that locks the bolt in the safe position,just be aware when you are unloading the safety goes to the fire position to unlock the bolt so keep your finger out of the trigger guard and no problems will occur mine is a 1962 model 700 BDL and I've never had a problem.Hope this helps and good shooting Ronnie

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    • #3
      Rem 700 & duck tape

      Duck tape may be the cheaper solution to your problem with the 700 bolt.

      This is an old story, everyone is aware of the history, etc. There are two distinct camps on this subject, with a big gap in between .

      Those who like the 700, either ignore the problem, live with it or somehow rationalize - I dunno what, because I can't understand how folks could live with such a design flaw - intentionally done, and Remington's refusal to fix.

      Then there are those like me who just refuse to own a remington 700, no matter what it is chambered in, or how pretty it is, or how easy it is to bed, or how accurate, or for any reason - simply because of the flawed safety.

      KB

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      • #4

        Then there are those like me who just refuse to own a remington 700, no matter what it is chambered in, or how pretty it is, or how easy it is to bed, or how accurate, or for any reason - simply because of the flawed safety.

        KB
        Put me in the same boat.

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        • #5
          I have to agree, with the flaw in the safety design and Remington being unwilling to re-design it, I will probably get her a Winchester instead.

          Comment


          • #6
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            Last edited by Kabluewy; 09-14-2006, 09:55.

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            • #7
              Remington not so safety...

              The new Sako M75 and M85 rifles have a feature that I thought was pretty dufus intil I talked to a lot of Remington fans. Most of them dislike the non-bolt-locking safety because the bolt falls out. The safety on the Sako rifles locks the bolt, as it always has but has an added push button to allow the bolt to cycle with the safety engaged. It would seem Remington could do that as well. After all they already a cheesy pushbutton bolt release, what's one more cheap pushbutton. The Sako system actually works and is a good safety as far as safeties go.

              I would say as a "fix" for the M700 would be to carry it without a round in the chamber and not cocked. This is done by fretting down the rounds in the magazine while closing the bolt then dry fire on an empty chamber, with the muzzle pointed where you want the bullet to go. If you're good you will hear a snap, if not, you'll hear a boom! I very quiet way to do this is to hold the trigger back while lowering the bolt. But I always like the snap, it is more assuring.

              I think the Steyr SBS rifles have a similar fire-safe-safe lock, three position safety (sort of a three position). But Remingtons answer to a non existant problem was to file off the little locking tang. The old pre-64 Winchester safety was a good idea in 1935.
              Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?


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              • #8
                That's the way I deal with the newer Remingtons, Murph.
                "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
                Merle Haggard

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                • #9
                  Hmmm...first I heard of this problem. My dad has owned a model 700 for as long as I can remember and I have owned one for the past 5 years. No problems with mine. Maybe I am misunderstanding the problem though, but my bolt stays closed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ob_1jr View Post
                    Hmmm...first I heard of this problem. My dad has owned a model 700 for as long as I can remember and I have owned one for the past 5 years. No problems with mine. Maybe I am misunderstanding the problem though, but my bolt stays closed.
                    Sometime ago, Remington decided to "fix" the "problem" of having to place the safety in the fire position to open the bolt. So they made the safeties thereafter so they would not lock the bolt down, which created another problem - namely the one that started this thread. It can be blamed on whatever - including lawers, etc, but in my book many other rifle makers have no such problems because they take the responsibility to make the mechanism work properly.

                    There were many law suits - many postings on the web about this Rem safety.

                    I have never been so disgusted with firearm related incidents, as I have on two occasions at the firing range, with friends shooting Rem 700s. But it is a long story. Fortunately no one was hurt - only a hole in the roof. The point is the Remington safety (the older ones) and clutzes don't mix. but unfortunately there are plenty of them, and we all have our bad days, and do stupid things. I am lucky, and have never had a gun go off unintentionally, but I'm real careful too, and very picky about the workings of my firearms, especially the safety.

                    Because of the incidents, now if I even see someone with a Remington, if I can't avoid him altoghether, I'll at least watch where he points the muzzel, just to check his safety ethics, before relaxing.

                    KB

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                    • #11
                      I'm a pure-blooded nazi about safe gun handling. You don't get any second chances if you point a muzzle in my direction. I'll either butt stroke you up the side of the head or make you wish I had instead of chewing you out. In either case, you'll never be around me with a gun in your hand again. Period. End of story.

                      In light of that, I've never been bothered by the Remington safety. I simply don't carry a round in the chamber when hunting. With good discipline, it's not an issue at the range either. I'd sure be happy with a different safety on the 700, but I like the rifle too much to give up on it over the safety.
                      "Lay in the weeds and wait, and when you get your chance to say something, say something good."
                      Merle Haggard

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        BrownBear,
                        I'm not so nazi about it, but I do have a firm opinion, as you can see. More than one time, I have been in the presence of friends, whose son or even worse, his daughter, wife or girlfriend was waving the muzzel of the Rem 700. I was very glad to remove myself from those situations. Frankly, it wouldn't have mattered much what brand of rifle it was, I just noticed in the cases I remember, the rifle was a remington. Accidents can happen with any firearm, but in my counting, the Rem 700 has been notorious. I just didn't want to be rude, but I was very uncomfortable. That's why I'm bothered by the Rem safety. Some folks just won't listen, and there is no need to say anything. It's a good idea, when it's their idea.

                        One of these beloved wives was riding in their truck, right in the middle of town, and had a 243 Rem 700 go off. They pulled over, and everyone piled out, children screeming, etc. Again no one was hurt, just deafened for a while, and a hole in the floorboard. Her husband, the driver was - I repeat was - the local hunter ed instructer. I don't know if they learned anything or not.

                        I realize it's people who shoot people, and good sense, and handling will solve most of the problems with what I think is a flawed mechanism. But I would be far more satisfied if the safety was really a safety. Even if it was, it may not cause me to buy a Remington, but it would surely cause me to feel more safe around others who use the 700.

                        KB
                        Last edited by Kabluewy; 09-15-2006, 10:07.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Remington Safety

                          BB,

                          Exactly! Where the muzzle is pointed is the single most important factor in regard to gun safety. An N/D is just an oops! A hole in the the dirt is imbarassing and in the roof costly, but if the a muzzle is ever pointed at an individual it is a criminal act! It is an act of gross stupidity and carelessness. And I am with you, I will react accordingly. A quick butt stroke across the lips will usually straighten things out. I have zero tollerance for it.

                          I am like you, I also carry without a round in the chamber, even in lion and bear country. I beleive the presents of mind to have a rifle and use a rifle also means the presents of mind to load and shoot. I can do that.

                          Now to the Remington. The change in the safety came about because to unload the ADL (blind magazine) involved cycling the rounds through the action. Well I don't think that was never a problem for the folks I have known and hunted with for forty years, but Remington thought differently, probably due to lawyers.

                          I honestly think most round that are "accidently fired" from a M700 are because of about three things.

                          1. Carrying a round in the chamber all the time. I've seen it done when walking the fields, when climbing into trees, when riding in a vehicle and on horse back. The two "A/D's" , with a M700's, that I know about, (fatalities) were both firing the rifle from inside the truck.

                          2. Secondly with a maladjusted trigger and a rapid cycling of the the bolt of the ADL to unload, that is an N/D waiting to happen. I like having the ability and the means to adjust my trigger but it seems there are too many screws on the Remington trigger for some folks.

                          3. The third horseman here is the human tendency to rely on a mechanical gizmo to save us from evil. It can't happen. Only a devout fool would believe that a mechanical safety can make a gun safe. The safety for any rifle is between our ears!

                          By the time my kids and grand kids were five years old, they all knew and could recite the number one most important rule in gun handling safety. I changed it slightly from the NRA version and the Cooper version but it goes like this.
                          "Always-Point the muzzle in the direction you want the bullet to go."

                          Someone here asked me if I had ever had an "accidental discharge" or what I call a Negligent Discharge" (N/D) I have had several, with varying degrees of negligence. And without going into details I will say that all bullets went where the muzzle was pointed. Also, no one was ever injured. When I need to load or unload a gun inside my home I point it at a stack of magazines or an inexpensive furniture, a feline, etc. Never at what I want to keep intact.

                          "No animal was ever injured during the loading or unloading of any firearm"
                          Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Friends & Remington 700s

                            Murphy, BrownBear, and others.

                            Just to be clear, I want you to know that I have several friends who use the Remington 700, and I hunt with them sometimes, only because so far they have not pointed the muzzel toward me. (or others as well) It wouldn't matter what kind of rifle it was, if I see the muzzel pointed in my direction, even toward my foot or leg, that person is almost certainly someone I don't hang around with in the future. That depends a little if they listen when I say something about it, and don't do it again.

                            I don't want you to think that I believe the mechanical workings of a safety is a good substitute for proper gun handling. That is not the case. I just believe that the person is rare who doesn't have a round in the chamber. There are few people who carry a Rem 700 with an empty chamber as a safety precaution.

                            Best Regards,
                            KB

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Rifle safety

                              Originally posted by Murphy View Post

                              BB,

                              Exactly! Where the muzzle is pointed is the single most important factor in regard to gun safety.

                              I am like you, I also carry without a round in the chamber, even in lion and bear country. I beleive the presents of mind to have a rifle and use a rifle also means the presents of mind to load and shoot. I can do that.


                              The third horseman here is the human tendency to rely on a mechanical gizmo to save us from evil. It can't happen. Only a devout fool would believe that a mechanical safety can make a gun safe. The safety for any rifle is between our ears!
                              Murphy,
                              While I agree with you, I also think it is rare for a person to carry around a rifle with an empth chamber.

                              Also, if an adequate safety doesn't make a gun safer (statistically or somehow measueably more safe) then why bother with a safety at all? Just carry an empty chamber - load only when about to shoot?

                              This is the root and old familiar red herring (diversion) about the Rem 700 Safety argument. My opinion is that the safety does in fact make rifles more safe. Proper handling ethics are even more important. If the Rem safety was more mechanically correct, I wouldn't have a problem with the Rem 700. I'm always going to have a problem with folks who don't use safe practices in handling their guns. My point is the factor of the flawed safety is a seperate issue from the human factor of handling ethics, except for the crossover in that some folks find rationalization that it's ok to have a less than safe safety, because the "problem" is not the safety at all - it's the person behind the rifle. In my view, there are ethics in that too.

                              Regards,
                              KB

                              Comment

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