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  • 378WBY case .50cal bullet?

    So I'm waiting for the wife to get ready to town. Putting on make up, and spraying and brushing and buffing and tuning and as I'm waiting... I find a .30-378WBY round laying on the table.

    So I'm looking at this erormus cartridge and remembering the kick you can get from it. What if I took this basic cartridge and put a .50 bullet on it? So I get to thinking more about it and begin to research how and who had this idea before me... I find that Ackley put a .375 on a .50BMG case, but no 50-378WBY out there. What do I need a 50 cal for you ask? Simple. I do not have a 50 cal rifle (not counting the smokepoles or the 50-110 Winchester that I don't shoot much..it's old, It's not a field gun anymore).

    Who knows, There may be some Mastodon still out there somewhere that needs hunted, and why not be prepared for the occasion? Ok, but would you believe an Elephant in Africa?

    Any one have any info on a 50 cal on a 378WBY?
    God, Guns and Guts is what made America Great

  • #2
    Originally posted by whateveri8
    Any one have any info on a 50 cal on a 378WBY?
    Maybe 500 A-Square?

    KB

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    • #3
      500 and 495 A-Square are made on the 378 WBY brass.

      Comment


      • #4
        .600? .700?

        Maybe you need to up the ante! Can you even get bullets in those calibers? I know they make a .600 NE and I've heard of a .700 NE (although I believe that was somewhat of a one-off special, just because they could), haven't seen anyone try to wildcat anything else with such a beastly sized bullet though.

        Honestly, to me, anything past .458 is monstrous. I can see wanting a .475 based on either standard magnum cases (H&H length) as in the .470 Capstick or perhaps a .475 on the big Weatherby case. I'm sure that one was also done by A-Square if not someone else like Ackley. That would be a noticeable increase, I would think, in terminal ballistics on large pachyderms.

        Dave

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        • #5
          For the big thinkers

          You may find this interesting.

          I hope these links work.

          http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...0834#374100834

          also: www.470mbogo.com

          This cartridge would work well in one of the large CZ actions, intended for the 416 Rigby.
          There are some links to videos showing these rifles being shot. Be sure to see them too. I was amused.

          KB

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          • #6
            Thats been done 30 years ago

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AKWannabe

              I can see wanting a .475 based on either standard magnum cases (H&H length) as in the .470 Capstick or perhaps a .475 on the big Weatherby case.
              Dave


              I had a 470/416 Rigby done on a Ruegr #1H back in the mid 90's. The boring and chambering was done by Cliff LaBounty before he closed up shop. I don't know if the new equipment owner will do 47 calibers or not.

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              • #8
                Where is Murphy

                I'm sure that murphy has owned two or three and has all the data stored up some where.

                The 510 Wells is also a 50-378wby check out A-square reloading manuel
                DR B

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                • #9
                  .50 vs. .475

                  In comparrision, the .475 cal bullets and the choices of cases to mount them in do not give you much more of an increased coeffiecient value over standard 45 cal rifle loads. A .50 cal does in fact increase significantly. Enough in fact to put it way over the top for North American game. However the ballistics are impressive on the 50 A-square rounds. A Taylor Knockdown Value [mass X velocity X caliber/7000] of 107.9 vs. a 460Wby with a 86.7 (which beats the .475 loads by a factor of 10 points). to compare brass to brass here, the 378WBY scores a factor of 46.6. A .308 will give you a 17. Impressive, well don't forget the consequence for power out the barrel; RECOIL! From the figures I've seen on paper, the 50 A-Square would be hard on the shoulder! Of course if a Cape Buff or African Bull Elephant is about to stomp you like chewing gum on the sidewalk, then recoil is not the issue.

                  SO... with this all said, there is no practical reason to build a rifle in 50 A-Square other than to just have one. Feeding it would not be very hard as bullets and brass are available.

                  Perhaps a lower charge would be suitable for a 50 cal "bush gun." WWG has a Co-Pilot in 50 Alaskan a 50-70 BP cartridge converted to modern smokless. what about a Win Short Mag cartridge with a 50 caliber stuck on it. It would still pack a punch but not be a charging White Rhino defense only gun.

                  Again I ask another 50 cal question, what is availible with a 50 cal bullet on a Win Short Mag or a Rem Short Ultra Mag cartridge?
                  God, Guns and Guts is what made America Great

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by whateveri8
                    Again I ask another 50 cal question, what is availible with a 50 cal bullet on a Win Short Mag or a Rem Short Ultra Mag cartridge?

                    Not enough shoulder on the WSM or RUM cases to go 50 caliber.

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                    • #11
                      50 Caliber something

                      Well, for what it's worth.

                      The 500 and the 495 A-Square are both based on the belted 378/416/460 Weatherby case which is essentially the 416 Rigby dimensions but with a belt and much stronger brass.

                      The 50 Alaskan is not the 50-70 B.P. round it is the 348 Winchester case cut to 2.10" and straightened out and a .510" bullet in it. With the overall length restrictions of the original lever rifle it uses ony the shortest bullets and isn't much of a killer compared to modern rifles.

                      The 404 Jeffery case on which is based the WSM's and Ultra Mags isn't big enough at the shoulder to accept a .500" or .510" bullet, as Allen pointed out.

                      We have the 500 Jeffery and the 505 Gibbs now and of course the A-Squares and the 500 N.E. but the only other case available that is capable of housing a modern high pressure high performance pachederm slaying round of 50 caliber is the 338 Lapua case. This case is based on the external dimensions of the 416 Rigby case but thicker and designed to run at 65.000 psi and can be made into a slayer of great beasts. It can be shortened to 2.500" from it's 2.724" or left full length as needed. But just so you know, it has been done before though you have never seen it. I tried for three years to interest Art Alphin in this cartridge family and he wasn't interested, had his own ideas, obviously. This was before the 495 and 500 A-Square were developed. (In case you don't know. AA is A-Square. AA is Art Alphin. Some of us who have known him for a while add another A when we speak of him or call his company A Cubed.)

                      Depending on the horse power you want, you could use one other case and it is a very good design and capable of handling pressures as high as 65,000 psi, but is rimmed. This case IS essentially the 50-70 gov't case with very modern design but uses .500" bullets not .510". It is the strongest case design ever made and is made for a puny little revolver. The strikeingly handsome 500 S&W. A true 50 caliber. A strong performer in an Encore or No.1, certainly worthy of a second look. It can handle 500 grain bullets. A good experiment at very little cost.

                      BTW, I have the dimensions to my 500 Murphy (not an official name) on the Lapua case if you're interested. I have a short (2.500") and full length version. Dakota is making the 423 Dakota/Lapua on the full length Lapua case. Similar to my 1988 design. Oh, well! The big CZ actions would be perfect for this series of calibers.

                      As for the 475 calibers, there are many and they are successful. And I will say they aren't a big step up in killing power from the 45 calibers, given the same S.D. and velocity, but they sure do hit hard. The 470 Capstick, developed by Art Alphin & company, is an absolutely awesome buffalo stopping rifle. It can be made on any good H&H length action and in a compact and trim size to fit any need. Lots of good bullets available and easy to load. Bigger than a Lott and what a name! Good shootin'.

                      Murphy
                      Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Murphy

                        what round did you use when you were hunting in Africa. Give s the details on the Buff and Elephants you killed.

                        Thanks
                        DR B

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Elephants!!

                          I have never killed a poor defenseless Elephant. Can't afford it.

                          Cape buffalo of Zimbabwe. 450 Ackley, 470 Capstick, one each. Zambian, 416 Remington. I carried a borrowed 500 Jeffery for three days but didn't get a shot. It's owner became selfish and wanted it back, I had to use a puny 416.

                          The 470 Capstick, point of shoulder, quartering to. Old hard boss fell forward on his chin, then recovered and ran about 100 yards through the trees until he ran into a big acasia. Thud! Went down, didn't get up. Deadtough soft point exited. 450 Ackley, broadside heart shot, high lung shot on the move. No signs of being hit, ran 200-250 yds layed down, bellowed. Both A-frames exited. 416, broadside, point of shoulder, and high shoulder on the move, down, rolled over, up, on the move the other direction, stopped in the open about 100 yds away, fell over, bellowed. 1st A-frame recovered, 2nd exited.

                          I plan to use a 404 Dakota in Tanzania in '07.

                          All of these are cape buffalo calibers, 375 is not. Also killed two wounded with 375 buffalos, with 416 Rem..

                          I stood beside two hunters, just as an ....Ahh...observer for the shooting of two Elephant. One hunter with a 470 double and solids, one shot drop, through the front skull.. One with 416 Rigby, not so pretty, but a 500 Jeffery made all the difference. You should try it sometime.

                          There are many good details yet to be published. Good shootin'.

                          Murphy
                          Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Back around to the .500 S&W

                            I wanted a .50 cal round for the hydro-static shock value smoke poles deliver at close range.
                            My idea began as a 50 cal bush rifle for black bear in a lever gun similar to the Marlin Guide Gun. The Guide gun is great, however I picked up a Marlin 1895SS a year ago. Thinking it was a 45-70 G G in Stainless Steel; I get there to find a 1973 vintage Marlin '95 model 1895ss in blue 22" barrel, never shot for 275.00. I like the SS w/ 22" barrel model over my GG w/ 18" barrel but that 's another thread |

                            The WBY case - based on the Rigby case is going to be more charge than I want, BUT Murphy!!! YES I would love to know the details of your 50 Murphy round !!!!!

                            I think there is a future market for a .50 cal (.510) medium charge rifle for bush hunting. Something that has a strong HS shock value, medium recoil equal to a.30-06 or no more than a 12ga target load.

                            Although T/C and NEF have 500 S&W single shot long guns out there, A Lever action or a frontier scout bolt action would be appealing as a big bore repeating rifle. Second as an affordable .50 cal cartridge rifle.

                            The downers I see it this round would have to chamber in either a Standard .30-06 length action or even a short action as people love that short action. Bullets would resemble the old Spencer RF rounds being all lead on top and a little brass on the bottom.

                            Maybe 2.3" version based on the .50 Murphy and if we could talk Ruger into converting their stockpile of the discontinued M77 .50 cal smoke poles into a 20" Stainless barrel synthetic bush rifles.

                            Next would be to get the ballistics to match some hot smoke pole loads and get states to allow the .50 cal round as a hunting gun in lieu of 12ga sluggers or muzzle-loader only; it just may sell

                            all that is needed is the right size of brass to use. What say thee?
                            God, Guns and Guts is what made America Great

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hydro static "shock" is caused by high velocity, usually in excess of 2,800 fps. Theory is the high speed causes the surrounding tissue to explode and the bone fragments become secondary missles.
                              Large calibers and medium velocity is what Elmer Keith liked as he said
                              " When shot with that I can eat up to the hole"

                              Comment

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