Looks markedly less expensive than other brands. Anyone have experience with it? Thinking that this may swing me back to a Redhawk in .45 Colt as opposed to .44 Magnum., if it is readily available stuff.
Double Tap Ammo...
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I've shot some of their .45 colt out of a super redhawk. There wasn't really that much difference between it and their .454 casull. If you are thinking of using it in a 4" redhawk, the recoil might be a bit of a shock.
From posts on here and other forums, I would say that you should be aware that you likely will not get the velocities they advertise on their website. That said, it is quality premium ammo and it is generally less expensive than comprable brands.
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Does it go bang? - Yes
Does it perform to claimed specifications - No
I'd trust my handloads over their stuff any day.
When someone sells you something for 50 at the price everyone else sells for 20 there are only a few possibilities.
1) They are getting raw materials cheaper? - Not a chance
2) They are more efficient and therefore produce at a lower cost? - Maybe
3) They are cutting corners that others are not? - Most likely
At the end of the day you get what you pay for. That's my 2 cents, others may differ.
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Jack49 -
After your reply in another thread, I decided to do some research on double tap ammo and their velocity claims. The most reasonable statement that I read concerning this issue stated essentially that your typical consumer chronograph may be precise, but not necessarily accurate. In other words, it may yield consistent but inccorrect results.
Apparently ammunition manufacturers calibrate their industrial grade chronographs to yield the best possible results to them, which is not necessarily dishonest. Those same results may not be repeatable in anything but the most controlled situations. Does this suck? Sure, but it doesn't mean their ammo isn't quality.
I have never had accuracy problems with double tap ammo, and I have shot plenty of it. No, I have not chronographed it, but I'm not sure I would trust the chronograph for anything but making comparisons to other brands anyway. As far as getting 50 rounds for the price of 20, well maybe it has to do with them being a relatively small operation and having less overhead.
I'm not a blind follower of double tap ammo by any means, but so far I haven't had any negative experiences that would lead me to look elsewhere.
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I've shot a fair amount of Double Tap ammo and like it. In my tests the ammunition was very accurate as compared to Winchester white box and while I have not chronographed the ammunition, it is obviously a "hot" load as compared to the target loads. The 357 hard cast is something I can carry with confidence in the woods as a backup.
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Originally posted by almostfree View PostJack49 -
After your reply in another thread, I decided to do some research on double tap ammo and their velocity claims. The most reasonable statement that I read concerning this issue stated essentially that your typical consumer chronograph may be precise, but not necessarily accurate. In other words, it may yield consistent but inccorrect results.
Apparently ammunition manufacturers calibrate their industrial grade chronographs to yield the best possible results to them, which is not necessarily dishonest. Those same results may not be repeatable in anything but the most controlled situations. Does this suck? Sure, but it doesn't mean their ammo isn't quality.
I have never had accuracy problems with double tap ammo, and I have shot plenty of it. No, I have not chronographed it, but I'm not sure I would trust the chronograph for anything but making comparisons to other brands anyway. As far as getting 50 rounds for the price of 20, well maybe it has to do with them being a relatively small operation and having less overhead.
I'm not a blind follower of double tap ammo by any means, but so far I haven't had any negative experiences that would lead me to look elsewhere.
You see you can calibrate a chronograph yourself by firing loads of known average velocity and seeing how well that relates to what the chronograph is reporting. While it may not be a 99.9% accurate method it is a 95% accurate method and the results for Double Tap fell outside even a 10% margin of error.
Clearly it is not the chronograph to blame but the quality of the Double Tap ammunition. Since you've never chronographed it all you really know is that it goes bang and produces some size group. Velocities could be anywhere and still create this result.
Shooting a few rounds of some ammo, getting a nice group, hearing a big bang and walking away thinking it's all good is the kind of reports you read about this ammo all over the internet. Many people who have actually tested it report similar problems and they are flamed on forums all over for being against Double Tap.
Regarding small size, you can argue that small size results in some efficiency however, small size means that their raw supplies cost more since they cannot get the deals that Remington can on components. These two factors likely negate each other leaving us with the same question of why they are so cheap. Small size also means they they are not doing the QA/QC testing and other manufacturing inspection tasks the bigger players are. They don't have the laboratory facilities or staff to do so. Which is more likely part of the reason for the price difference and the quality difference.
In any case I've reported my observations. Anyone who wants to use their stuff is certainly welcome to. As I said, it's my 2 cents and you are free to differ.
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Originally posted by RGL01 View PostThat usually proves true. So tell me, if I start handloading, I assume a chronograph is neccessary. Is it fairly straightfoward to become a competent handloader?
Also, knowing what the ammo is doing instead of guessing certianly is a positive thing. Walking around with ammo you think is at 41 magnum levels when it is actually performoing at 45 ACP levels is a nice piece of information to have.
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Originally posted by Jack49 View PostWalking around with ammo you think is at 41 magnum levels when it is actually performing at 45 ACP levels is a nice piece of information to have.
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Originally posted by chriso View PostSo aside from becoming a handloader myself (I imagine that would be your first recommendation, but unlikely in my life at this time) whose brand of higher performing 10mm would you recommend? Buffalo Bore looks tempting, but there is a thread about them on the forum here that causes concern. Cor-bon has been reliable in my past, but they arent loading nearly as hot as Double Tap and Buffalo Bore claim to. Is there any other options you are aware of? Thanks, Chris
I recommend you spend $100 on a chronograph, buy whatever ammo you want to test and see for yourself what the best load is for you. That way you know what you are carrying right down to the box you bought. No hype, no testimonials just cold hard facts.
However, I have tested the following and this is what I got. Keep in mind that a different lot produced at a different time may not perform the same. In fact lot to lot consistency might be part of the problem with the smaller manufacturers where some people see good results and other times they do not.
Buffalo Bore 200 FMJ 10mm - 1150 fps average
Cor Bon 200 JFP - 1060 fps average
Double Tap 200 LFP - 1040 average
Double Tap 230 LFP - 935 average
Winchester Silvertip 175 - 1250 average
200 g XTP Handload 10.3 N105 - 1200 fps average
180 g Gold Dot handload 11.6 3N38 1380 fps average
(Obviously the hand loads are max in my Glock with KKM barrel and should not be replicated without working up)
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Originally posted by almostfree View PostGood info. What kind of springs do you use on your G20? I've been told that the standard weight Glock spring should be replaced. I currently have a 22# wolff spring and guide rod on mine.
Any suggestions for a chronograph? It looks like the CED units can be had from $75 on up.
I have used Chrony and Pact chronographs. They both worked fine. I'd bet all the major brands are quite functional.
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