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  • Concealed Carry Consideration

    I watched one of those Outdoors channel "armed citizen" shows where folks are learning CQB tech on the range and for the home. These students had some really nice side arms. Not all of them were LEOs, just folks that like to shoot reality style. Looking at those nice pistols and tactical shotguns I was reminded of some advice I was given by an LEO way back in the last century when I took my CC class.

    In that class a retired LEO that worked private security taught part of the class. People were talking about the various arms that they had and were planning on carrying with their new permits. Someone had a nice 1911 that cost him about $1,200 with all the work it had. Lots of folks with their Glocks and a few Sig owners, and a few of us didn't yet know what we would be likely to carry. Small wheel gun was my own consideration.

    Then this retired LEO told the class that it was best if they only carried a gun that they would not care if they never saw again or at least didn't mind being beat up if not out right broken by the time they got it back from APD. Forensic testing can be awfully hard on a gun he joked.

    The room was pretty quite at this point. The LEO went on to state that if you were to use that fancy 1911 and kill someone it would be in the APD evidence room for at least a year sitting on a metal or wood shelf. It most likely would not be in any kind of protective cover, or only a paper bag. Banged around by other guns or pieces of evidence.

    If a LEO investigating your justified homicide didn't think it was justified, but couldn't get a DA to see his side to press charges, APD might just hang onto the gun until they find a DA that wanted to take a chance. You go free, but your gun might be kept for a long while. At this point there were some protesters, but the LEO made it clear that if you shoot someone it is a homicide and they have to retain evidence related to the case. Even if it was justified.

    Looking at a lot of the CC posts on here there are a lot of recommendations about different types of guns. Especially these days with the new XD and P250s super poly guns there is a large investment people make in their weapons. Put would you be willing to loose them for a year, or forever, if you happen to use it for its purpose?

    It is something to think about.

    ps. any LEO that actually knows what really happens in a police evidence room can offer their opinion to counter the scare tactic the old guy was giving us way back when. OR confirm that he was right.

  • #2
    Times have changed a lot over the past 34 years, that's obvious. I say that because my father used a Colt Agent 38 special in defense of his and my mothers life one night in a parking lot on Fireweed in Anchorage.

    He and my mother got into their car and a man blocked them in with a van. The guy came to the driver door window and put a gun in my father face. My dad responded with the above mentioned snub nosed Colt rammed into the bad guys sternum and pulled the trigger.

    When the cops came they took the gun and the story, my parents went home. My dad went down town the next morning to give his story on tape. The dead guy had a long record and a warrant. My fathers gun was returned that day and I have in my safe at this time. My father had been an Anchorage resident since the early 1950's, he was well known. My father is long past, he would be 91 this year.

    Lawyers and society in general have changed the rules of engagement but a person is still able to defend their life with like force. As far as the cops keeping your gun goes, I suppose in my fathers case the cops and or district attorney didn't choose to pursue any charges so the gun was returned the following day.

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    • #3
      I am sure of what you say is probably what happens but, I would not consider useing a throw away gun or a inexpensive one...I have been packing for years and in the event of me having to shoot someone to protect myself or loved ones after the event my gun would be way down on the list of considerations..I pack my favorites and any of them can be replaced...

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      • #4
        I agree with oneriver. Reliability is everything. I wouldn't trust a hipoint to opperate when I needed it (own one). I know my upgraded XD will fire and hit where ever I put the sights. I can't replace my wife :rolleyes:. I can however replace a $900 pistol.

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        • #5
          Two thumbs up

          Originally posted by Wombat View Post
          I agree with oneriver. Reliability is everything. I wouldn't trust a hipoint to opperate when I needed it (own one). I know my upgraded XD will fire and hit where ever I put the sights. I can't replace my wife :rolleyes:. I can however replace a $900 pistol.
          well said

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          • #6
            It's a relative thing and depends somewhat on ones income. A $2500 gun is nothing to some and many others canít replace a $900 gun without taking food off their childís dinner plate. A carry weapon is sure something you should not skimp on, but there are inexpensive options that give every bit as reliable as that $2500 gun or even more in many cases! A Glock can be had for $500 or less new and I canít think of any gun thatís more reliable than a simple run of the mill Glock. I love the great old 1911 platform and they are reliable . . . however, with my life on the line in a gunfight I want the much cheaper Glock in my hand more than any of my 1911s!
            Andy
            On the web= C-lazy-F.co
            Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
            Call/Text 602-315-2406
            Phoenix Arizona

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            • #7
              how much...

              When I look in the mirror I ask my self, " how much should I spend on a life insurance policy" if it is the only one I may be alive to benefit from! With todays legal system I am almost more afraid of the aftermath then of the actual shooting incident.

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              • #8
                I have a friend that was involved in a self defense shooting that killed the bad guy. His pistol was held for months, maybe even a year with no care. The blood, mud and sweat were not removed. It was virtually ruined when he got it back. Not only did they take that handgun, but in the investigation all firearms were removed from his home. He got those back in decent condition. I based my carry decisions over the past 20 years on this. I have always carried high quality medium priced firearms for CCW.

                My less than $300 Sigma .380 was stolen years ago in a night robery of my store. I didn't blink an eye and just shrugged it off. Had I not been heading to the high school and then to an EMT meeting it would not have been in my desk that night. I didn't replace that pistol and started carrying my custom 1911 again.

                For some reason I got worried about carrying the 1911 again. Maybe it's just the new presidential administration..who knows? It's just too nice to carry every day and risk confiscation by the police. The pistol, in my mind, went from a carry gun to a heirloom overnight. I want to pass the pistol to my son some day.

                I am now back to my handgun as a tool mindset again. I received a XD-M .40 for my birthday at the end of March and already have 500 rounds through it. I handle it as well as I've ever handled my 1911's and I could care less if I lost it permanently if I used it in self defense.

                Could I carry less gun? I could, but where I live I like to have a few more rounds available to me. I have humans, bears and moose around me every day. For an all around carry gun in my community it's hard to beat a high capacity .40 S&W. Yep, it's a little tough to carry while in Anchorage or Wasilla but a quality holster makes it happen. I don't consider $750 for a quality handgun, good holster and good belt too much to pay for a once in 20 year investment if you never have to use it. If I lived in Anchorage a $250 6 shot snubby .357 or .38Sp would serve me just fine.

                Another line of thought on carry handguns is that they should be as "normal" as possible. A good prosecuter can turn those Brown high grip safeties, 3# Videki trigger, and all those custom 1911 touches against you in court. They can paint a picture of a gunslinger looking for a fight pretty easy if you are carrying a something too far over the top. Luckily you can buy stock guns with all the goodies a 1911 needs right off the shelf. I couldn't 20 years ago. My XD-m will not be getting any mods at all. It works just fine the way it is.
                Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by AKDoug View Post
                  I have a friend that was involved in a self defense shooting that killed the bad guy. His pistol was held for months, maybe even a year with no care. The blood, mud and sweat were not removed. It was virtually ruined when he got it back. Not only did they take that handgun, but in the investigation all firearms were removed from his home. He got those back in decent condition. I based my carry decisions over the past 20 years on this. I have always carried high quality medium priced firearms for CCW.

                  My less than $300 Sigma .380 was stolen years ago in a night robery of my store. I didn't blink an eye and just shrugged it off. Had I not been heading to the high school and then to an EMT meeting it would not have been in my desk that night. I didn't replace that pistol and started carrying my custom 1911 again.

                  For some reason I got worried about carrying the 1911 again. Maybe it's just the new presidential administration..who knows? It's just too nice to carry every day and risk confiscation by the police. The pistol, in my mind, went from a carry gun to a heirloom overnight. I want to pass the pistol to my son some day.

                  I am now back to my handgun as a tool mindset again. I received a XD-M .40 for my birthday at the end of March and already have 500 rounds through it. I handle it as well as I've ever handled my 1911's and I could care less if I lost it permanently if I used it in self defense.

                  Could I carry less gun? I could, but where I live I like to have a few more rounds available to me. I have humans, bears and moose around me every day. For an all around carry gun in my community it's hard to beat a high capacity .40 S&W. Yep, it's a little tough to carry while in Anchorage or Wasilla but a quality holster makes it happen. I don't consider $750 for a quality handgun, good holster and good belt too much to pay for a once in 20 year investment if you never have to use it. If I lived in Anchorage a $250 6 shot snubby .357 or .38Sp would serve me just fine.

                  Another line of thought on carry handguns is that they should be as "normal" as possible. A good prosecuter can turn those Brown high grip safeties, 3# Videki trigger, and all those custom 1911 touches against you in court. They can paint a picture of a gunslinger looking for a fight pretty easy if you are carrying a something too far over the top. Luckily you can buy stock guns with all the goodies a 1911 needs right off the shelf. I couldn't 20 years ago. My XD-m will not be getting any mods at all. It works just fine the way it is.
                  Great post Doug!:cool::cool:
                  Andy
                  On the web= C-lazy-F.co
                  Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
                  Call/Text 602-315-2406
                  Phoenix Arizona

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    carry gun considerations

                    My everyday carry gun is an RIA 1911 (made in P.I.) and it is accurate and as reliable as a pistol can get. The only change made to it was the addition of a Wolf 18# recoil spring, to handle the +P loads. I paid around $325.00, if I recall correctly.
                    Dan

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ADfields View Post

                      A Glock can be had for $500 or less new and I canít think of any gun thatís more reliable than a simple run of the mill Glock.
                      Same here man.

                      I am a recent believer. Put off buying a Glock for years. Finally got a 35, loved it. Just recently got a 27 for concealed carry. LOVE it. Both in 40 S&W. Just fantastic guns and I have nothing bad to say about them. The 27 is ten shots, shoots straight, and packs way easy. Perfect carry gun for my intended usage.
                      The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        First thing you do is find a firearm you like, that functions, and then practice. In the extremely unfortunate situation you use it, NEVER TALK TO THE COPS UNTIL YOU'VE SPOKEN TO YOUR ATTORNEY!

                        Comply with them when they get on scene, give them your I.D., and just tell them "it was self-defense, and I won't say anything else until I've spoken to my attorney". Then DON'T SAY ANYTHING ELSE!

                        Your attorney can get a court order for your firearm, but like it has been previously stated, pretty much it is disposable, especially compared to your life.
                        Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

                        Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

                        You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sound advice, but

                          Originally posted by Nitroman View Post
                          First thing you do is find a firearm you like, that functions, and then practice. In the extremely unfortunate situation you use it, NEVER TALK TO THE COPS UNTIL YOU'VE SPOKEN TO YOUR ATTORNEY!

                          Comply with them when they get on scene, give them your I.D., and just tell them "it was self-defense, and I won't say anything else until I've spoken to my attorney". Then DON'T SAY ANYTHING ELSE!

                          Your attorney can get a court order for your firearm, but like it has been previously stated, pretty much it is disposable, especially compared to your life.
                          One exception to the VERY sound advice to keep your mouth shut is to make sure that any evidence that will help you is pointed out to the police on-scene. For two reasons.

                          If it is lost, it can't help you.

                          If you point it out and the police don't preserve it, you can use its absence as exculpatory.

                          (Advice paraphrased from Massad Ayoob)

                          Take down the names of anyone you talk to. Do not depend on your memory, write them down. If you have to, borrow a page from the officer's notebook.

                          Remember also, that when coming down from an adrenaline rush, the tendency of most people is to run their mouths. VERY common. Don't do it.

                          Lost Sheep

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lost Sheep View Post
                            One exception to the VERY sound advice to keep your mouth shut is to make sure that any evidence that will help you is pointed out to the police on-scene. For two reasons.

                            If it is lost, it can't help you.

                            If you point it out and the police don't preserve it, you can use its absence as exculpatory.

                            (Advice paraphrased from Massad Ayoob)

                            Take down the names of anyone you talk to. Do not depend on your memory, write them down. If you have to, borrow a page from the officer's notebook.

                            Remember also, that when coming down from an adrenaline rush, the tendency of most people is to run their mouths. VERY common. Don't do it.

                            Lost Sheep
                            I will also add to this good advice.

                            Take pictures!!!!!!!!!!! We almost all have phones that take pix, fill the memory with anything and everything you see while you are waiting for the cops.

                            Stay put and away from the perp till the cops come, don't check for pulse, no CPR, stay away.
                            Andy
                            On the web= C-lazy-F.co
                            Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
                            Call/Text 602-315-2406
                            Phoenix Arizona

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Shoot to kill and try not to dial 911 untill you are sure the bandit has expired. An FBI friend of mine told me a sad story of a doctor defending his home and shooting the guy in the leg because he didnt want to kill him, just stop the attack on his home and family. The bandit (who had a record) went to prison and sued the good DR for laiming him for life and won 1.5 million. Do to the finacial loss and the stress of the court system he lost his home and his family fell apart.
                              So "double tap" and let'm bleed out before calling the cops.....it will save the tax payers alot of $$$.
                              In the Bush

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