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  • #16
    Cor, I feel really special that you give my opinions so much attention

    On How beneficial truing up and bedding an action is, we probably disagree a little, and I'm basing my opinion from what I read from a lot of other experts who I believe are credible and I would be glad to point you to them. Before you dismiss internet references, these people are real people with real experience, some who live right here in Montana like Kirby Allen. The smiths I might cite are all credible and very respected based on their Work and RESULTS based on photos and testimonials. When you chat with folks on these forums for a few years, you get to know how real they are. Now I believe that you are real and have a good bit of knowledge and experience in the gun world, more than me for the most part. Never-the-less, I have researched and pursued some areas that you probably haven't given as much attention to. My interest in doing builds started when I burned out the barrel of my M77 and continued to grow as I became interested in LR shooting. I initially want ed to use the M77 but after asking a lot of questions, I started looking at other options.

    Now in the LR world, Picatinny style bases w/tactical rings are the standard and that's out for the M77. That's not an issue for the OP, but he will have essentially one choice of rings - no big deal really. The angled action screw is plain and simple a pain in the rear. Yes, you can work around it and live with it, but why? You can live with the rings, but why? I am also going to subjectively say that the Howa action is stronger than the M77 based upon my observation. You say they are all good enough... fine. I say, I want as strong and rigid an action as practically possible, especially for shooting magnum cartridges. You say the Ruger recoil lug is adequate, I say the Howa is better. I also say that a good recoil lug that is properly bedded to the stock is critical to good accuracy and consistency.

    On slapping a good match grade barrel on an untrued action and expecting .5 MOA is, IMO, setting yourself up for disappointment. A whole different subject suitable for a thread of it's own. (be my guest ) You might get that .5 accuracy, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. I would say there's a very good chance you'll get better accuracy than the original factory barrel.

    On the Howa action "taking the world by storm"... maybe not quite, but it is getting more and more popular because it is a good solid action. Not meant for the bigger mags, but for the 300 Wthby and down, it's hard to beat. And it does have an international popularity.

    So... here's a statement that really blew me away.

    ....nor why someone would build a "tack driver" on such a limited platform as the MK V. I like the MK V, but I do not like it better than a M77 for most work.
    Limited platform? Hey, I'm not going to debate this with you. The Rem 700 is the most popular factory action to build on, basically, because of all the after market add ons available for it. The Mark V is considered to be one of the best, if not the best, factory action to build on for it's strength and design. I've had a few long conversations with my smith and he has brought up the Mark V several times... he has never mentioned the M77. I was talking to him about the possibility of a future build on the 338 Lapua Mag and asking his opinion on what action he said the Defiance (custom action) would be a good single shot, but for a repeater, the Mark V was the ticket. We had talked about custom actions before and he likes Defiance. If you find a smith that will build a Lapua on an M77, find another smith.

    A couple of years ago I came across this article by Chuck Hawk's on "The Finest Bolt Actions Ever produced". Now Chuck isn't necessarily the final word on guns and you can talk about your Bigfoots, but he is very knowledgeable and makes a good case in this article for his opinion. He lists and describes six actions in this article and two of them are the Mark V and the Vanguard/Howa M1500. the M77 is not among the other four. Enjoy...


    Weatherby Mark V


    When Roy Weatherby designed his turn bolt action he departed from the Mauser 98 inspired norm in many ways. He decided to address the issue of bolt wobble and largely eliminated the problem by making his one piece bolt as fat as the locking lugs, which are machined into a reduced diameter bolt head. Instead of two big front locking lugs, he used three rows of three small lugs, making a total of 9 locking lugs spaced to give a bolt rotation of only 55 degrees. Because the fat Weatherby Mark V bolt is so smooth in operation and has a short rotation to unlock and lock, it is one of the fastest of all bolt actions for follow-up shots. Inside the bolt is a massive, one piece firing pin.
    The cartridge head is enclosed in "three rings of steel" (barrel, receiver ring and recessed bolt head), made famous by Weatherby advertising, and the action is immensely strong. The Mark V is, in fact, probably the strongest action in the world.
    The extractor is a claw in the bolt head and there is a plunger ejector in the bolt face. The latter is actually more reliable than the fixed, receiver mounted ejector of the Mauser 98 type, as it is practically impossible for it to be bent or damaged.
    In the event of a blown case the Mark V handles escaping powder gasses extremely well. There are three gas vent holes in the bolt body and a machined steel bolt shroud that completely encloses the end of the bolt to keep powder gasses out of the shooter's face.
    The highly polished and finished receiver is machined from a block of solid steel. It has a flat bottom and incorporates a serious recoil lug. There is also a generous loading/ejection port and, typical of push feed actions, a cartridge can be fed directly into the chamber and the bolt closed.
    The steel magazine floorplate is hinged at the front and the magazine floorplate latch is a button located in the front of the trigger guard. This button is easy to depress, yet takes a serious grip on the floorplate to prevent inadvertent opening under magnum recoil.
    The Mark V comes with an excellent, user adjustable trigger mechanism. It's two position safety locks the bolt closed when on and was designed to operate in near silence to avoid spooking game. There is also a visible cocking indicator below the bolt shroud.
    The 9-lug Mark V is a heavy action, basically designed for Weatherby magnum cartridges. Weatherby has addressed this by the introduction of a considerably lighter 6-lug (three rows of two) action for standard calibers.
    Weatherby's Mark V is probably the best of the "modern," push feed bolt actions. It lacks controlled feed but offers great strength, smoothness, fast operation and very high manufacturing quality. It is one of the all-time great bolt actions and it was designed from the outset for a hunting rifle. For hunting the most dangerous game I'd probably prefer a controlled feed action such as a Mauser 98 or Winchester 70, but for most other purposes I prefer the Mark V.


    Weatherby Vanguard / Howa 1500


    Weatherby evidently taught Howa how to make a superior, modern bolt action and they learned the lesson well. The Vanguard is a heavily modified Mauser pattern action that incorporates as many Weatherby Mark V features as possible. Its Mauser heritage shows in its small body bolt, dual opposed front locking lugs and 90 degree bolt rotation. Vanguard features common to both the Mauser 98 and Mark V include a flat bottom, forged and machined steel receiver with an integral recoil lug, generous loading/ejection port, one piece bolt, one piece firing pin and hinged magazine floorplate. The release for the latter is mounted externally in the front of the trigger guard.
    From the Mark V action the Vanguard action derives its three gas escape vents in the side of the bolt body and a streamlined steel bolt shroud that completely encloses the rear of the bolt. There is also a cocking indicator below the shroud. The ejector is a claw in the front of the bolt and the ejector is a reliable spring loaded plunger in the bolt face, making the Vanguard a push feed action. The trigger is user adjustable.
    Like the Mark V, cartridges may be fed directly into the Vanguard's chamber and the bolt closed. The bolt face is recessed to enclose the head of the cartridge. The Mark V may be faster, smoother and even stronger than the Vanguard, but the Vanguard is a very strong, well designed and well made action in its own right.


    http://www.chuckhawks.com/finest_bolt_actions.htm

    Now let's clarify this again...

    The OP wondered about a rifle designed for hunting and whether a M77 should be considered as a viable platform for a build.
    Here's what the OP said... again...

    ...if I spend the money to have a rifle built I expect it to shoot great.
    My question is, is the ruger actoin a good action to have a build done of of or am I wasting my time with this and should start from scratch, also can I change from the 7mm to the 257 weatherby.
    Thanks,
    Tony
    I'm ready to wrap this up.

    For the OP I'll say (again), You can build off the M77 and with a good smith, probably get a good shooter, but IMO, if you want a consitant good shooter with less hassles and more options and a better action, sell the M77 and look somewhere else.

    For you M77 fans, I have an action here looking for a home if you want to trade me your Howa or Vanguard.

    It's all yours Cor, I'm done beatin this horse
    "You will never know how much it cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you make good use of it."
    ~ John Quincy Adams

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
      On slapping a good match grade barrel on an untrued action and expecting .5 MOA is, IMO, setting yourself up for disappointment. A whole different subject suitable for a thread of it's own. (be my guest ) You might get that .5 accuracy, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. I would say there's a very good chance you'll get better accuracy than the original factory barrel.
      I'll keep this short since you are done with this thread MR. I've done them both ways (trued and left as is)--Rem 700s & Win 70s, M77s I've just screwed new tubes on them and found them good enough (at least good enough for grapefruits)--and while my sampling size is too small to be definitive, I'd say that truing an action is the least important step in building an accurate rifle. Given a barrel that is a known entity (Kreiger, PacNor, etc.) and a quality stock/bedding .5 MOA is normal with proper ammo. Practically everyone in the accuracy business is in it for the business. There has to be a reason that their stuff is better than another's and if we'll listen to them they will explain why. Facts are facts, great barrels shoot great; other details are mostly fluff. Never cut corners on the barrel/chambering and you'll not be disappointed. At least I haven't.

      There is a niche market for big cases and LR shooting. Years ago it was the 338 Kong and other variations on the 378 Weatherby case. Actions for cartridges that large are limited. The standard M77 simply cannot handle the OAL. For my part, it is a game that I am not interested in playing. Whatever its advantages may be I know that an action that has nine contact surfaces lends itself to inconsistency. An action that uses the trigger as a bolt stop can be a liability--I am not much for the overtravel. To its credit the A5 is a ready inlet for the MK V.

      See you on the next thread...
      Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

      Comment


      • #18
        MR have you ever heard of Charlie Sisk? He will build a rifle on a 77, and I bet it'd shoot. As I already stated I have built more than one rifle on a 77, both for myself and customers, and when I say build I'm not talking in Internet lingo as to mean I'm building, IE it's at the gunsmith. If any of the guns I have put together on Rugers or otherwise have been grapefruit busters, I haven't heard about them, I would like to in order to make it right but I haven't which leads me to beleive they must shoot at least slightly better than minute of large citrus fruit.

        I think one point that may have gotten slightly side stepped is that the OP already HAS a 77action, lying around.

        I will agree that it wouldn't be my #1 choice for a BR gun but since the OP made no mention of hauling a bench up the mountain I don't think that factors in here. With a good barrel, good chamber, a good stock and bedding job, I see absolutely zero reason that a rifle built on a 77 won't hold .75 if the shooter does his part. Regardless of Internet claims and coffeshop talk I still think 3/4 of an inch is a pretty dang good shooter. Definately good enough for any game shooting at sane ranges, and not too many years ago a rifle capable of that would have been heralded far and wide. I'm not saying a Howa or a Rem won't do that but once again, he doesn't have a Howa or Remington in his closet. Me personally I would much rather spend a few bucks extra to get a rifle in the caliber I want, with the stock I want, the color I want, than something the factory wants me to want the color and shape they picked, even if they shoot exactly the same.

        I won't even get into the aluminum stock and this one looks stronger on the outside nonsense with you.

        Comment


        • #19
          Well thanks for all the input on this it has been very interesting folowing this thread it seems that the opinion is that the action is good enough but there are better ones to use if I want to build an extremly acurate rifle. Not saying that I will shoot an animal that far but when I have a rifle built I would like it to be able to shoot at least to 800 yds as I shoot a lot out to this range and spend a lot of time on load development for each rifle I have to make it as acurate as possible. (I think I have a OCD thing for accuracy) What I am getting from everyone is that the M77 is not the action for this build and I should try and build from scratch or get a rem 700 action if I can find one or the mark V or.... Well I am really not sure what to do now
          Thanks again for all the help.
          Tony

          Comment


          • #20
            [QUOTE]
            Originally posted by The Kid View Post
            MR have you ever heard of Charlie Sisk? He will build a rifle on a 77, and I bet it'd shoot. As I already stated I have built more than one rifle on a 77, both for myself and customers, and when I say build I'm not talking in Internet lingo as to mean I'm building, IE it's at the gunsmith. If any of the guns I have put together on Rugers or otherwise have been grapefruit busters, I haven't heard about them, I would like to in order to make it right but I haven't which leads me to beleive they must shoot at least slightly better than minute of large citrus fruit.

            I think one point that may have gotten slightly side stepped is that the OP already HAS a 77action, lying around.
            Kid, I haven't heard of Charlei Sisk, but I don't doubt that he does good work and like I said before, I was just having a little fun with the grapefruit comment. I've also said that I think it's possible to build a good shooter on an M77. But why? Just becuase you have one or sentimental reasons? Those are reasonable reasons but they don't make it high up on my priority list. I may infact, after I get a few priority projects done, go ahead and rebarrel and restock my M77 (if someone doesn't trade me a Howa first )just for those reasons.

            I will agree that it wouldn't be my #1 choice for a BR gun but since the OP made no mention of hauling a bench up the mountain I don't think that factors in here. With a good barrel, good chamber, a good stock and bedding job, I see absolutely zero reason that a rifle built on a 77 won't hold .75 if the shooter does his part. Regardless of Internet claims and coffeshop talk I still think 3/4 of an inch is a pretty dang good shooter. Definately good enough for any game shooting at sane ranges, and not too many years ago a rifle capable of that would have been heralded far and wide. I'm not saying a Howa or a Rem won't do that but once again, he doesn't have a Howa or Remington in his closet. Me personally I would much rather spend a few bucks extra to get a rifle in the caliber I want, with the stock I want, the color I want, than something the factory wants me to want the color and shape they picked, even if they shoot exactly the same.

            I won't even get into the aluminum stock and this one looks stronger on the outside nonsense with you.
            When the OP said he wanted a real shooter, to me that spells .5 MOA or better. That is the standard for precision shooting and that's what precision rifle makers barrel makers and smiths guarantee. Not saying there is anything wrong with .75 MOA for average shooting. That's what my M77 shot with handloads and for the 300-400 yd hunting I did, that was fine. My apatite for accuracy has grown since then. .5 is now my lower limit which doesn't mean I'm better than anyone else - that's just what I want. I like to see bug holes.

            I am in total agreement about getting a rifle, cal, stock, color, etc. that you or I or the OP wants. But sometimes budgets restrain us a little and that's also exactly why, the M77 not being my, your's or Cor's "first choice", that I would pick another action instead of "settling " for what's on hand.

            I am currently getting a rifle built on a Sub MOA Vanguard action and stock with a Broughton 5C, Med Varmint contour (.75 muzzle) for hauling around the mountians. It will be just a little lighter than the Sendero's I currentl haul around, but not an 18 lb BR gun either. That Sub MOA Vanguard is a .35 shooter from the factory (not bad for an aluminum bedded B&C stock eh? ) which makes me think why am I tearing it apart? Reason is, I want a diff cartridge and a match grade barrel heavy barrel for consistent pin point shooting. And to me a "sane" range is probably a little farther than what you might consider a sane range. It gives ma a lot of flexibility in the mountains and plains of Montana.

            So I don't think the OP should just "settle" with what he has lying around. Gitt'r done right the first time.

            BTW, I did a google on Ruger M77 actions and just happened to find the LRH thread I started on this very topic 3 years ago. Some good info here including a few pics of completed nice looking M77 projects. In post #9 there's a pic of an M77 action that has been modified by grinding off the recoil lug, drilling and tapping a new action screw hole that is configured the way it "should" be and using a beefy Rem style recoil lug placed between barrel and receiver. If I ever do my M77, that is exactly what I'll have done. You might consider it for your next M77 project.

            Comments are generally favorable with caveats like, "probably better choises" and "not my first choice", kinda like this thread.

            http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...27/index2.html
            "You will never know how much it cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you make good use of it."
            ~ John Quincy Adams

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by 0321Tony View Post
              Well thanks for all the input on this it has been very interesting folowing this thread it seems that the opinion is that the action is good enough but there are better ones to use if I want to build an extremly acurate rifle. Not saying that I will shoot an animal that far but when I have a rifle built I would like it to be able to shoot at least to 800 yds as I shoot a lot out to this range and spend a lot of time on load development for each rifle I have to make it as acurate as possible. (I think I have a OCD thing for accuracy) What I am getting from everyone is that the M77 is not the action for this build and I should try and build from scratch or get a rem 700 action if I can find one or the mark V or.... Well I am really not sure what to do now
              Thanks again for all the help.
              Tony
              Tony, if I had know that you wanted to shoot to "at least 800 yds", I would have been even more adamant about my opinion.

              If I was in your shoes, I would get a Sub MOA Vanguard in 257 Whtby Mag (your choice of cal, not mine). Weatherby only packages rifles that shoot .75 MOA or less (with their ammo) in the Sub MOA category. About half the factory targets I have looked at are about .5 MOA or less. You should get a good shooter that will group .5 or less with some load work, but there's never any guarantees with a factory rifle. Now, you can either shoot the rifle the way it is, or do like I am doing and have it trued up, skim bedded and rebarreled. You can always sell the barrel to a gunsmith or advertise in a forum or on Gunbroker which is what I am doing. Savage is another good option for an accurate out of the box rifle, but I like the Howa action better. And with the Savage you are looking at the standard cartridges like 7mm RM, 300 WM or WSM's, etc... no Weatherby mags. Weatherby mags will be spendy for brass, even more spendy for ammo and if your planning on 800 + shooting, you will want to be handloading. You also need to consider thins like a good range finder and tactical scope set up. LR is addicting and a whole different world. If you want to learn more about it, go to the LRH site, there is a ton of good and valuble info and friendly knowledgeable people.

              Good shooting,

              Mark

              Now I am done! I think?
              "You will never know how much it cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you make good use of it."
              ~ John Quincy Adams

              Comment


              • #22
                There are two different kinds of information offered on this thread. There is the advice from this guy:
                Originally posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
                I'm basing my opinion from what I read from a lot of other experts

                Or the advice from these guys:
                Originally posted by The Kid View Post
                Nothing wrong with using a Ruger 77 for a custom rifle, I've done it several times with good results.
                Originally posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
                I've done them both ways (trued and left as is)--Rem 700s & Win 70s, M77s

                Personally, I'd like my advice to come from someone WHO HAS ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING pertinent to the thread. In this case, building a rifle on a Ruger 77 action.

                Tony, enjoy your rifle project - whatever you decide to do. If you are like many of us rifle nuts, it won't be your last.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dan in Alaska View Post
                  There are two different kinds of information offered on this thread. There is the advice from this guy:



                  Or the advice from these guys:




                  Personally, I'd like my advice to come from someone WHO HAS ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING pertinent to the thread. In this case, building a rifle on a Ruger 77 action.

                  Tony, enjoy your rifle project - whatever you decide to do. If you are like many of us rifle nuts, it won't be your last.
                  Ya know Dan you really puzzle me.. you really do. The OP is in an internet forum asking for advise from other internet users on what he should do based on certain criteria. Now, both Cor and The Kid have said that the M77 would not be their first choice for a build, and so have the others in the LRH thread I linked who "actually did this", and on top of that, I haven't really said anything different on what the expected outcome of building this rifle would be. The difference was that they would use the action because it was available and I said, I would look elsewhere for something better ... again the M77 is not anyone's first choice for a build. Do you think that's unreasonable or bad advise?

                  What's really odd is that by your very own reasoning, you rule yourself out of this subject on two counts. First, your just another net opinion, go figure. Second, have you done an M77 build? Do you even own an M77? What are you doing here? Do you have anything pertinent to add or are just some pot stirring troublemaker with a bone to pick? Seriously, I would like to know?

                  If you have any experience in this subject, please contribute. Maybe you'll change the OP's mind? Would you recommend to the OP building a precision sub .5 MOA 800 yd rifle on an M77? Please explain.

                  I was exactly where Tony is now, 3 years ago and been through the process he is going through and shared with him what I learned form the internet, phone conversations and face-to face. And because I decided not to actually do it does not make me unqualified to speak in the matter. I think my contribution was very pertinent and I brought along other "actual experience" with me.

                  Tony's a big boy, he can judge what info he thinks is pertinent and what's not. So please do add what ever pertinent info you have to the subject... I would like to be enlightened.
                  "You will never know how much it cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you make good use of it."
                  ~ John Quincy Adams

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 0321Tony View Post
                    Well thanks for all the input on this it has been very interesting folowing this thread it seems that the opinion is that the action is good enough but there are better ones to use if I want to build an extremly acurate rifle.
                    There is absolutely no reason that a M77 action is not capable of producing "an extremely accurate rifle". I have had several M77 rifles that were extremely accurate. That said, I don't care for the fact that when cycled they tend to be loose, sloppy, and rough. But, how it feels to you, and how you feel about it, don't necessarily have anything to do with how it will shoot. Bottom line is personal preference. Discard all the opinions you've read, including mine, and go with the action of your preference. Find a good gunsmith, stick a good barrel on it, and you'll have every reason to expect it to be "an extremely accurate rifle". Have fun.
                    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
                    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
                    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 0321Tony View Post
                      I have a question I hope someone can answer I have a ruger 7mm M77 that the barrel is no good in and I want to build a good sheep gun. I am hoping to be able to change it to shoot the 257 weatherby if possable (dont know much about gunsmithing).
                      I had my main hunting rifle a 300 RUM built on the Remington 700 action and it is a tack driver and if I spend the money to have a rifle built I expect it to shoot great.
                      My question is, is the ruger actoin a good action to have a build done of of or am I wasting my time with this and should start from scratch, also can I change from the 7mm to the 257 weatherby.
                      Thanks,
                      Tony
                      Lets get back to the op and avoid those adding conjecture and confusion.

                      Yes the Ruger M77 can be used as a basis to build a fine custom accurate rifle. As far as going from a 7 rem mag to .257 wetherby, it's a simple rebarrel job and you'll end up with a very flat shooting rifle. I'd be more concerned about who was doing the gunsmithing that whether or not I started with a ruger M77, rem 700, win M70 etc. A good barrel fit by a good gunmsith will shot 3 shots into 1/2" at 100 yds, or better. Heck, most factory rifles are capable of that level of accuracy once you work up a handload.

                      That said, your original criteria is that you want a good sheep gun. To me a good sheep gun is a lightweight rifle with a good synthetic stock. Two issues with the M77 action, it is far from the lightest action, and there are a limited number of aftermarket stocks available for it. You could have some metal machined out of the action, but I can't see spending the money on that work when there are easier routes to persue, especially when you are still limited on the stocks you can get.

                      If it were me, I'd sell the ruger and either get a kimber montana 8400 wsm in 270 wsm and be done with it, or I'd look for a rem 700 short action .473" bolt head ADL and get either a B&C Alaska wilderness stock or a mcmillan edge, and have a top notch #2 contour .257" barrel fit and chambered in 25-284.
                      Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

                      If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        As long as we are dismissing the M77 based on weight, we may as well dismiss the Howa/Vanguard for the same reason.

                        That being said, you can get to a reasonable weight with either action. The most economical way to get there is with a 700 IMO.

                        Just to be clear, I didn't consult any experts, search the interwebs, phone a friend, or poll the crowd in order to form my opinion. I have owned and shot 77's, 700's, Howas and Vanguards. They will all work, but some actions are better suited to certain goals than others.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
                          Ya know Dan you really puzzle me.. you really do. The OP is in an internet forum asking for advise from other internet users on what he should do based on certain criteria. Now, both Cor and The Kid have said that the M77 would not be their first choice for a build, and so have the others in the LRH thread I linked who "actually did this", and on top of that, I haven't really said anything different on what the expected outcome of building this rifle would be. The difference was that they would use the action because it was available and I said, I would look elsewhere for something better ... again the M77 is not anyone's first choice for a build. Do you think that's unreasonable or bad advise?

                          What's really odd is that by your very own reasoning, you rule yourself out of this subject on two counts. First, your just another net opinion, go figure. Second, have you done an M77 build? Do you even own an M77? What are you doing here? Do you have anything pertinent to add or are just some pot stirring troublemaker with a bone to pick? Seriously, I would like to know?

                          If you have any experience in this subject, please contribute. Maybe you'll change the OP's mind? Would you recommend to the OP building a precision sub .5 MOA 800 yd rifle on an M77? Please explain.

                          I was exactly where Tony is now, 3 years ago and been through the process he is going through and shared with him what I learned form the internet, phone conversations and face-to face. And because I decided not to actually do it does not make me unqualified to speak in the matter. I think my contribution was very pertinent and I brought along other "actual experience" with me.

                          Tony's a big boy, he can judge what info he thinks is pertinent and what's not. So please do add what ever pertinent info you have to the subject... I would like to be enlightened.
                          Maybe I can assist in clearing up some of your puzzlement. I've shot with Dan a bit, and seen him shoot most everything mentioned in this thread. I've also seen him do load development and evaluation, shoot animals, and even shoot a few targets at "long range". He is pretty good at those things, and pretty helpful in sharing his experience in those areas.

                          I have not however seen him pontificate upon topics in which he has little or no knowledge or experience. While that may be in vogue here, and clearly an area of expertise for you, it is certainly not helpful or useful to the person asking the question. Pontificating is the most polite way I can describe your posting, so I hope that you do not take offense.

                          Some people (myself included) find this style of posting to be analogous to telling stories that you've heard or read while substituting yourself as the main character. It is one of the main ways in which urban legends and internet rumors are created. Now, you clearly identified that you had no first-hand experience in the subjects mentioned, so that people could very easily discard those opinions rather than base their actions upon them. For that, I thank and commend you.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
                            The difference was that they would use the action because it was available and I said, I would look elsewhere for something better ... again the M77 is not anyone's first choice for a build. Do you think that's unreasonable or bad advise?
                            Yes, I think you gave poor advice. For starters, you are offering hearsay as testimony. The others have offered a first-hand account of their experiences. I can appreciate the difference, and knowing beats guessing.

                            Secondly, your advice will cost Tony more money to buy another action.

                            Finally, your advice didn't seem to help him at all:
                            Originally posted by 0321Tony View Post
                            Well I am really not sure what to do now
                            So, without personal experience of re-barreling a Ruger 77, you have single-handedly persuaded the original poster to doubt what at least six other posters on this thread have told him, "Tony's Ruger 77 in 7mag can easily be rebarreled to make a .257 Wby, and it will shoot just fine."

                            Good job?




                            Originally posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
                            What's really odd is that by your very own reasoning, you rule yourself out of this subject on two counts. First, your just another net opinion, go figure. Second, have you done an M77 build?
                            I have shot custom rifles built off Ruger actions that belonged to my friends. Nate's 6mmAI, in particular, was a real tack driver. While I do not claim ownership of said rifles, I certainly do have first-hand experience with rebarreled Ruger 77's and whether or not they can be accurate.

                            Originally posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
                            Do you even own an M77?
                            Not anymore. I currently own one Winchester, but otherwise I have sold the rest of my centerfires (including Savage, Howa, Remington M7), and the remaining rifles in my safe are Remington 700s. Personal preference, I guess. There was nothing particularly wrong with the others.

                            Originally posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
                            What are you doing here?
                            Trying to prevent a guy with a perfectly good action from spending more money to buy a different one he doesn't really need.

                            Originally posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
                            If you have any experience in this subject, please contribute. Maybe you'll change the OP's mind?
                            I have had many rifles rebarreled over the years; my first one was built in 1997. I have used barrels from Douglas, Lilja, Pac-Nor, Shilen, Hart, Krieger, Barlein, and Rock Creek. I have used a few different gunsmiths, and I've had varying degrees of action work done during the rebarreling process, from a lot to a little. I have used factory stocks, as well as aftermarket stocks from McMillan, Rimrock, Bell & Carlson, and some laminated something-another from Cabela's. In addition to the custom rifles I currently own, and those I used to own, I've handled and shot multitudes more that were owned by friends and shooting partners.

                            Originally posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
                            Do you have anything pertinent to add or are just some pot stirring troublemaker with a bone to pick? Seriously, I would like to know?
                            I am sorry you got your dander up by my intrusion into your conversation, and my subsequent critique of your advice. If you consider this the act of a troublemaker, I apologize, and I will leave this discussion to those more capable.




                            Again, Tony. Enjoy your rifle project - whatever you decide to do.

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                            • #29
                              1Cor15:19.....I actually said Amen a couple of times when reading your posts.....you too Kid! Spot on, both of you!

                              Not that you need my approval but you have it none the less!

                              The most accurate long distance rifle that I have ever seen was an old tang safety 77 in 7mm mag with a 26 inch Doug Shilen barrel screwed on it. Of course the fella pulling the trigger had something to do with it too!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Here's an urban legend for you, and it may or may not be applicable to this situation, as I've not read deeply enough into this thread to determine if the OP's action is an older tang safety model or the new mark 2 controlled feed. I have not consulted any experts regarding this post, so keep that in mind as well.

                                We have in our family an old tang safety ruger in 7 mag. It never shot well. One could feel a rough/tight spot in the barrel about halfway down. I spoke with Ruger and they agreed to look at it. I sent the barreled action away to them. They replied with a note stating that the barrel indeed was bad and agreed to rebarrel and reblue the rifle for ~$160. This in the year of our Lord 2001 (or so).

                                I had them do this, and the rifle came back gleaming blued and beautiful. And, it shot great. First groups with some old 175 hornady round noses burning them up for barrel break in were tight clusters. Haven't done much with it since.

                                The ruger sporter contour is a pretty light barrel contour, if you put it against others. It does have a bit of shank to it, but it gets slender quick and is quite svelte at the end. Along the way I picked up a bansner stock for it and that rifle is now certainly sheep-worthy. It weighs only a little more than 7lb with a fixed 6x leupold scope.

                                I'd recommend contacting Ruger. That might be the cheapest way out. Bansner stock blanks are ~ 260 new. Read up a bit on ergonomics and pull lenghts and bedding and such, buy the bansner and a pachmayr decelerator recoil pad, lop off the butt with an eyeball-squared chopsaw cut (cover cut area with strong tape and use a sharp, new blade), epoxy on the recoil pad at the correct length of pull for you (if you have to guess go 13.5"), bed the rifle in the action, sand the gelcoat and parting line smooth, fill gelcoat pinholes with bondo, sand the pinhole fixes smooth, and paint with your favorite colors. The bansner barrel channel is for Ruger's magnum contour, so your sporter barrel will free float with some pride, and that's fine.

                                I've done all of this and didn't read about it from some internet expert, so you can probably disqualify these comments and go instead with someone who hasn't done this.

                                Now, for some real conjecture: a fast stepping 120 grain TSX out of a 7mag would be the bees knees for sheep. I've not experienced this firsthand.

                                Comment

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