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Tell Trump No to Pebble

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Patsfan54 View Post
    Ever heard of ad hominem attacks? Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a term that refers to several types of arguments, most of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion to some irrelevant but often highly charged issue.
    By "ad hominem attacks" you must be referring to comments like this:
    "I would rather have an actual conversation than the jumping up and down while shouting."

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    • #47
      trump JR put out a tweet telling his dad to direct the EPA to block the pebble project. trump jr was on the latest meat eater podcast and seems like he is very pro public lands in public hands kinda guy. The interview is at the end of the podcast...worth a listen.
      I will never be a "Prostaffer" its not that I am not good enough
      but its because I refuse to pimp products for free.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by kwackkillncrew View Post
        trump JR put out a tweet telling his dad to direct the EPA to block the pebble project.
        Well that's good to know. I wonder if daddy will listen?

        Edit: After the president just signing the "Great American Outdoors Act" we can keep on this roll:

        From Back country hunters and anglers:

        This morning, hunters and anglers like you rejoiced as President Trump signed the Great American Outdoors Act into law, signaling the final victory in a decades-long campaign to fully fund the Land and Water Conservation Fund. The importance of this moment cannot be understated; we're here because outdoorsmen and women worked relentlessly to convince our lawmakers that America's public lands need our support.

        You made it happen! In June, the Senate listened to our voices and passed this bill 73-25, and the House just followed suit last week with a stunning 310-107 vote, signaling that our public lands and waters remain the best way to unite our country. Now, LWCF will receive its full $900 million annually, and our federal management agencies will finally receive critical funding to address crippling maintenance backlogs.

        Take pride in the work you did to get us here! Success like this doesn't happen in a vacuum—we needed the voices of outdoorsmen and women from every state, walk of life and political persuasion to achieve this milestone. Keep the ball rolling by thanking the lawmakers who voted YES on public lands and waters!
        Last edited by 4merguide; 08-04-2020, 17:59.
        Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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        • #49
          Sen. Dan Sullivan also said he's worried a final environmental review of the project may be inadequate.
          Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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          • #50
            This probably isn't new to anyone in Alaska, but here it is anyway:

            https://www.army.mil/article/238426

            The Feds have rejected the permit for Pebble Mine. This might not serve to kill the project completely, but it's darn close.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by iyouktug View Post
              Pogo Mine is a very large scale gold mine and they have had good success for many years and protected the Good Paster river by using a cement backfil technique. I wonder if this same process could be implemented at Pebble.
              I'm familiar with the Pogo mine and the Goodpaster river. Quite a gem. That being, said, there's no comparison between a small stream in interior Alaska with grayling and pike with not a lot of proximity to an active fault line, to literally the largest producer of salmon in the world in a location that is highly active tectonically speaking with the capacity to produce earthquakes with a magnitude of 9+. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

              One is medium to low value with low risk. The other is extremely high value with extremely high risk. You can't compare the Pogo mine to the Pebble mine in my opinion.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Cohoangler View Post
                This might not serve to kill the project completely, but it's darn close.
                Don't bank on it. This is a zombie project.

                ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
                I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
                The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post

                  I'm familiar with the Pogo mine and the Goodpaster river. Quite a gem. That being, said, there's no comparison between a small stream in interior Alaska with grayling and pike with not a lot of proximity to an active fault line, to literally the largest producer of salmon in the world in a location that is highly active tectonically speaking with the capacity to produce earthquakes with a magnitude of 9+. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

                  One is medium to low value with low risk. The other is extremely high value with extremely high risk. You can't compare the Pogo mine to the Pebble mine in my opinion.
                  I absolutely agree, not to mention comparing the size of the Pogo mine to, what's slated to be, the largest gold and copper mine in the world.

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                  • #54
                    From a letter from Senator Don Young:

                    "The debate over Pebble Mine is not new, and through it all, I have been consistent in my position that we needed to allow the scientific process to determine what effect, if any, this mine would have on Bristol Bay. And that meant letting the science, not politicians, environmental activists, or bureaucrats make a determination about the future of the proposed Pebble project. This week's announcement by the Army Corps indicates a significant amount of compensatory mitigation is needed to offset the potential environmental impacts of the proposed mine at this present time. While not an outright veto of the project, this is a steep hill for the company to climb."
                    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by 4merguide View Post
                      From a letter from Senator Don Young:

                      "The debate over Pebble Mine is not new, and through it all, I have been consistent in my position that we needed to allow the scientific process to determine what effect, if any, this mine would have on Bristol Bay. And that meant letting the science, not politicians, environmental activists, or bureaucrats make a determination about the future of the proposed Pebble project. This week's announcement by the Army Corps indicates a significant amount of compensatory mitigation is needed to offset the potential environmental impacts of the proposed mine at this present time. While not an outright veto of the project, this is a steep hill for the company to climb."
                      Mine advocates, the likes of Young and other sleazeball politicians included, have been unable to steamroll the overwhelming reality that this proposed pit is a horrifically bad idea. So now they're changing tack slightly and squirming around to set up for their next mealy-mouthed run at it. They'll admit there are 'some risks', tho they'll continue to downplay them as much as possible, to the extent they don't feel excessive pushback; they'll use the phrases like 'steep hill to climb'...to set up for their next evolution of talking points. Tho nothing at all will have changed, very soon they will attempt to portray the pit developers as 'having presented a plan that successfully meets the challenges', 'climbed that steep hill', 'overcome the technological barriers'.... You watch; they're not backing down from this, they're just sliming their way around to attempt to flank the current pushback. It's a slow-motion head fake left, and roll out to the right.
                      ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
                      I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
                      The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

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                      • #56
                        The scientific method, like most institutions, have been high jacked and corrupted. They'll get the science to show what they want cause they have the money to buy it. I'm glad I started tracking this thread. I've been doing some research, definitely a divided issue. I keep thinking about Butte, Montana, and I believe it's the largest ever US superfund site? Restoration and clean up for the entire west side of the state has been ongoing since the early 80's. It goes back to a century of unchecked mining practices, nothing to do with earthquakes or other natural disasters, but the outcome could be the same for Pebble regarding decades of devastation and cleanup should something break.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post

                          I'm familiar with the Pogo mine and the Goodpaster river. Quite a gem. That being, said, there's no comparison between a small stream in interior Alaska with grayling and pike with not a lot of proximity to an active fault line, to literally the largest producer of salmon in the world in a location that is highly active tectonically speaking with the capacity to produce earthquakes with a magnitude of 9+. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

                          One is medium to low value with low risk. The other is extremely high value with extremely high risk. You can't compare the Pogo mine to the Pebble mine in my opinion.
                          I hear what you are saying here BWJ and taking it into consideration for sure. I am just a big fan of the cement backfill over a tailings pond type mine. Seems pretty tried and true but this mine may be too large scale to go that route.

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