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  • #16
    Originally posted by iyouktug View Post
    I’m ready to see what this mine is all about. It’s time.
    Hey, I got an idea...How bout' we find out what this huge, wide open toxic cesspool looks like in YOUR backyard because, hey, "it's time."
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by 4merguide View Post

      Hey, I got an idea...How bout' we find out what this huge, wide open toxic cesspool looks like in YOUR backyard because, hey, "it's time."
      Im not sure what you are trying to imply here son but I have known Alaska mines to be very low impact on the environment and I believe that is what they are shooting for with pebble. But if you are saying there will be a massive tailings pond with this mine then maybe I would rethink some things but I just don’t think they are going that route.

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      • #18
        From Pebble itself is this description of the lake of toxic waste.

        “Tailing liquids will contain some processing chemicals (e.g., Cyanide, Xanthates, etc.) and petroleum products (e.g., diesel, oil, gas, etc.)3. Tailings that contain reactive sulfides- which are present in the Pebble deposit, - can generate sulfuric acid if exposed to both air and water; thus they are often stored “under water4. Both solid and liquid components of mine tailings can be toxic and impair natural ecosystem function if not contained properly.” ( pebbleblescience.org )

        The sulfates alone could be a kiss of death for salmon. Even poorly planned highway cuts through sulfate bearing rock have been known to destroy such streams.

        There are at least four common methods to construct earth filled dams but none of them preclude earthquake danger. A large earthquake event induced failure my come from cracks in the structure or from overtopping due slides reducing dam freeboard and from wave action. Earth filled dam failures are hardly uncommon. The 1976 failure of the new Teton Dam occurred as the structure was being filled.

        The Pebble site is earthquake active. On a map provided by Pebble it can be seen that the Castle Mountain fault is aimed directly at the site.

        Geography places this particular mine in an area of high risk. Geography places this mine as poised to destroy the most important of salmon systems. These salmon provide food for people and provide the livelihood that puts shoes on children’s feet for many more people for a much longer time that any jobs the mine might temporarily create.

        Pebble brings great risk for less return than the salmon returns it threatens to destroy. The capital and the returns are not even USA based. Big risk little return.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by upstreamV View Post
          From Pebble itself is this description of the lake of toxic waste.

          “Tailing liquids will contain some processing chemicals (e.g., Cyanide, Xanthates, etc.) and petroleum products (e.g., diesel, oil, gas, etc.)3. Tailings that contain reactive sulfides- which are present in the Pebble deposit, - can generate sulfuric acid if exposed to both air and water; thus they are often stored “under water4. Both solid and liquid components of mine tailings can be toxic and impair natural ecosystem function if not contained properly.” ( pebbleblescience.org )

          The sulfates alone could be a kiss of death for salmon. Even poorly planned highway cuts through sulfate bearing rock have been known to destroy such streams.

          There are at least four common methods to construct earth filled dams but none of them preclude earthquake danger. A large earthquake event induced failure my come from cracks in the structure or from overtopping due slides reducing dam freeboard and from wave action. Earth filled dam failures are hardly uncommon. The 1976 failure of the new Teton Dam occurred as the structure was being filled.

          The Pebble site is earthquake active. On a map provided by Pebble it can be seen that the Castle Mountain fault is aimed directly at the site.

          Geography places this particular mine in an area of high risk. Geography places this mine as poised to destroy the most important of salmon systems. These salmon provide food for people and provide the livelihood that puts shoes on children’s feet for many more people for a much longer time that any jobs the mine might temporarily create.

          Pebble brings great risk for less return than the salmon returns it threatens to destroy. The capital and the returns are not even USA based. Big risk little return.
          Well right off the bat you are using incorrect information. Pebble isn't using cyanide in the process, I suggest you use actual information to inform yourself instead of old talking points that are incorrect. It's sad that so many people have such a strong opinion based on the wrong information. But when people say things like "I don't care what questions they answer" it's easy to see why all this false information is accepted as fact.
          I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. Physicist ― Richard Feynman

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          • #20
            Thanks for the correction Patsfan54. What is the new process? Always good to learn something new. Concerns about copper and gold extraction at this site stills stands for me.

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            • #21
              This debate has been going on a long time. I see extremes on both sides. "OMG, It's the end of all life in the region." And, "It can be developed safely without hurting a thing." I suspect the truth as in many things, is somewhere in the middle. I have hunted Caribou right where this mine is proposed to happen. It's a beautiful area. I would hate to see it tore up. But, I also know we are a resource state, and some places will need to be developed (safely and prudently) to sustain our economy and provide good jobs for Alaska's people.

              I wish we could have ALL the straight up facts about it without the made up hyperbole from both extremes.
              Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by upstreamV View Post
                Thanks for the correction Patsfan54. What is the new process? Always good to learn something new. Concerns about copper and gold extraction at this site stills stands for me.
                Crushing, grinding, flotation, and milling. Here's the project description from the EIS, the mineral processing section starts on page 30 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qs6t0skk4...escription.pdf
                I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. Physicist ― Richard Feynman

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                • #23
                  Blah, blah, blah... The Fort Knox owners claimed they would never use a cyanide leach either. They lied. They'll say anything. Their words are meaningless.
                  ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
                  I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
                  The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Patsfan54 View Post
                    It's sad that so many people have such a strong opinion based on the wrong information. But when people say things like "I don't care what questions they answer" it's easy to see why all this false information is accepted as fact.
                    So I'll repeat it again just for you!!!....I DON'T CARE WHAT QUESTIONS THEY ANSWER BECAUSE THEY CAN NEVER CONVINCE ME THAT THIS MINE WILL BE 100% SAFE!!! I realize that you probably weren't alive at the time but obviously you know how to do a google search. Do yourself a favor and look up everything you can about the devastation caused by the 64' earthquake. After you do so, then tell me that it's a good idea to put a massive toxic sewage pit in an already highly seismic prone area. Which, oh yeah, is positioned at the headwaters of Bristol Bay. You should be able to find a few videos of the land opening up and swallowing cars and houses....I know I've seen them. A magnitude 10+ earthquake isn't going to care how well you think you built an earthen dam. Just like in 64', it didn't care where you built your city. Yeah, it's sad that people are so blinded by the lure of the almighty dollar that they can't understand the risk involved with this undertaking. Like I said before, bring industry to Alaska, it needs it. Just NOT one that has a long history of being unsafe and installing it at the headwaters of the greatest sockeye fishery in the world!!!
                    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SmokeRoss View Post
                      .... I have hunted Caribou right where this mine is proposed to happen. It's a beautiful area. I would hate to see it tore up. But, I also know we are a resource state, and some places will need to be developed (safely and prudently) to sustain our economy and provide good jobs for Alaska's people.
                      Well then Ross you and I feel the same, ie; SOME places. Just not there! Alaska's a big place! There's probably untold riches hiding all over the place that will make the money grabbers happy without risking anything near what they are planning to do with Pebble.

                      Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 4merguide View Post
                        I DON'T CARE WHAT QUESTIONS THEY ANSWER BECAUSE THEY CAN NEVER CONVINCE ME THAT THIS MINE WILL BE 100% SAFE!!!
                        Like I said before, enough said. I don't think anyone is trying to convince anyone else that this mine will be 100% safe, I'm certainly not since that would be an entirely new standard for any and every human activity ever. I get you don't like it, you are allowed to have your opinion. Demanding that something be 100% safe is beyond extreme, humanity simply would not exist if that were the standard we followed.

                        The fact is many people are still using old talking points dating back well over a decade and they haven't informed themselves on what this actual project is. We are all free to have our own opinions, the actual proposed project information can be found in the link on my previous post. If I were so adamantly opposed to this project, reviewing the actual plan seems like a good place to start.
                        I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. Physicist ― Richard Feynman

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                        • #27
                          Pogo Mine is a very large scale gold mine and they have had good success for many years and protected the Good Paster river by using a cement backfil technique. I wonder if this same process could be implemented at Pebble.

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                          • #28
                            Just about any problem is solvable with sufficient application of engineering and money.

                            Regardless, many don't want to see any solution.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ChugiakTinkerer View Post
                              Just about any problem is solvable with sufficient application of engineering and money.

                              Regardless, many don't want to see any solution.
                              Yeah, throw money at it....that'll keep away the earthquakes.
                              Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Is this the kind of business you want in Alaska that has a man like this lobbying for them?
                                https://www.nrdc.org/experts/joel-re...s-about-alaska

                                Tell you rep:
                                https://cashgrabcollier.com/take-action/
                                Last edited by 4merguide; 3 days ago.
                                Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

                                Comment

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