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  • #46
    Originally posted by RTaylor View Post
    Originally posted by Cohoangler View Post
    The fact is that the 10-02 area was Federal land looooooong before Alaska became a State. It possible the area was set aside for oil development but it was never State land. And it continues to be Federal land.
    The United States government rarely operates like any other entity in almost all regards, and that is particularly true with regard to land management, and especially true with regard to Alaska's oil reserves, particularly those specifically set aside as oil reserves over a century ago. They're still there. Every drop.
    The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) was set aside as, ...wait for it................a wildlife refuge. It was not set aside as a petroleum reserve.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

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    • #47
      Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
      The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) was set aside as, ...wait for it................a wildlife refuge. It was not set aside as a petroleum reserve.
      If you ask me I believe it can be both. And very easily I might add. Especially if the lower 48 population realizes that where the oil is doesn't look anything like Lake Clark national park....
      Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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      • #48
        Originally posted by RTaylor View Post
        As a direct consumer of gasoline, diesel, and natural gas as well as a secondary consumer of petrochemical products, I much more prefer cheap energy than extremely, manipulatively high energy prices so that political and economic tyrants like those running the Alaskan, Venezuelan, and Saudi governments (among others) can have lots of money to play socialist games with. Oil glut? Bring it! Kill the Hubbard Peak Oil lie forever, and let's allow cheap energy to get the planet moving forward again.
        Imo....it makes no sense giving our money to people that just as soon slit our throats otherwise. And you know that our money is the ONLY reason the Saudis love us.....
        Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
          The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) was set aside as, ...wait for it................a wildlife refuge. It was not set aside as a petroleum reserve.
          ANWR wasn't classified a century ago. NPR-A was. As the Naval Petroleum Reserve #4. And every quart of the stuff is still there.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by RTaylor View Post
            ANWR wasn't classified a century ago. NPR-A was. As the Naval Petroleum Reserve #4. And every quart of the stuff is still there.
            Point: you haven't been discussing NPRA, you've been discussing ANWR. Focus.
            ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
            I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
            The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
              Point: you haven't been discussing NPRA, you've been discussing ANWR. Focus.
              You don't get to tell me what I've been discussing. It's my mind, those were my words, and they were addressing the quoted words of somebody else.

              I was quite focused. I still am. And I stand by my words.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by RTaylor View Post
                You don't get to tell me what I've been discussing.
                See the title of the thread. See the definition of 'thread'. Follow the thread to discussion of ANWR Area 1002. Compare non sequitur comments referencing lands "set aside" as a Petroleum Reserve.... Note that ANWR is NOT designated a Petroleum Reserve, but rather a Wildlife Refuge. Carry on.
                ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
                I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
                The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
                  .......Carry on.
                  Okay:

                  See Coho's quote in MY post? The statement about federal lands managed like others manage their lands? In your clairvoyant state, did you think that the quote was some sort of computer auto-insertion (like the other Coho sentence that YOU inserted within my quote)?

                  ANWR doesn't hide the only oil left in Alaska. Granted, it's a huge deposit, but there is plenty of other oil up there in federal control, and my point is that there it will remain, and that is so precisely because the United States government does not manage its lands and resources like Native corporations, Venezuelan governments, Mexican governments, Canadian governments, Saudi governments, Norwegian governments, Alaskan governments........etc to infinity.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by iofthetaiga View Post
                    .... Note that ANWR is NOT designated a Petroleum Reserve, but rather a Wildlife Refuge.........
                    And, oh, by the way, even though the 1002 area is within ANWR, its future regarding oil and gas development was specifically deferred in ANILCA, which is why we've been treated to 37 years (and continuing) of BS on developing its oil and gas reserves.

                    Chew on that a bit while reconsidering my premise that the United States government doesn't do it like the other guys (or do you still want to insist that I'm discussing something else?).

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by RTaylor View Post
                      ...precisely because the United States government does not manage its lands and resources like Native corporations, Venezuelan governments, Mexican governments, Canadian governments, Saudi governments, Norwegian governments, Alaskan governments........etc to infinity.
                      thank god.
                      ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
                      I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
                      The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Do you really think that God has an active managing role in United States policy making and not in that of other nations and peoples?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Just to be clear:

                          From Wikipedia:

                          The National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska (NPRA) is an area of land on the Alaska North Slope owned by the United States federal government and managed by the Department of the Interior, Bureau of Land Management (BLM). It lies to the west of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, which, is a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service managed National Wildlife Refuge, is also considered federal land.

                          The NPRA was created by President Warren G. Harding in 1923 as Naval Petroleum Reserve Number 4 during a time when the United States was converting its Navy to run on oil rather than coal.In 1976 the Naval Petroleum Reserves Production Act (NPRPA) renamed the reserve the "National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska" and transferred it from the Navy to the Department of the Interior.The 1980 Interior Department Appropriations Act directed the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) within the Department of Interior to conduct oil and gas leasing. Nevertheless, the area was left essentially as a wilderness until the late 1990s.

                          Between 1944 and 1981, the US government drilled and then abandoned about 137 wells in the reserve as part of an exploratory oil and gas program in order to obtain estimates and locations of reservoirs. BLM operates the abandoned wells. In 1998, after BLM had gone through a planning process to create an "Integrated Activity Plan/Environmental Impact Statement" for the Northeast area, the Secretary of the Interior (Bruce Babbitt) signed a Record of Decision which opened 87 percent of this area to oil and gas leasing. The first leases were signed in 1999.

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                          • #58
                            Look up Conoco Phillips GMT or Greater Mooses Tooth oil development.
                            It is in the NPRA and is being developed right now.
                            So we are developing part of the NPRA.
                            While researching this 1002 area is does indeed seem that its future regarding oil and gas development was deffered.
                            So while it is part of a national wildle refuge it may be able to be developed for oil and gas in the future.
                            Interesting stuff.

                            Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
                            "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

                            "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
                              Look up Conoco Phillips GMT or Greater Mooses Tooth oil development.
                              It is in the NPRA and is being developed right now.
                              So we are developing part of the NPRA.
                              While researching this 1002 area is does indeed seem that its future regarding oil and gas development was deffered.
                              So while it is part of a national wildlife refuge it may be able to be developed for oil and gas in the future.
                              Interesting stuff.

                              Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
                              That is correct. Oil and gas exploration and development is allowed on National Wildlife Refuge lands but ONLY if those rights were established before the lands became a national wildlife refuge. Kenai National Wildlife Refuge is a good example. Lots of oil wells on Kenai NWR, many of which are now abandoned.

                              In this case, it appears the 10-02 area WAS designated for oil and gas before it became part of ANWR. The only catch is that oil and gas development at ANWR requires Congressional approval. That hasn't happened yet.....

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by cdubbin View Post
                                Exactly. And that's why ANWR is a hail Mary, and why it hasn't happened yet, and why it most likely won't.. ..
                                Oil fields typically take 5-10 years to develop, oil companies are always having to forecast future prices when evaluating the economics of a project.

                                ANWR hasn't happened because there have been lease sales for the mineral rights.

                                Oil fields have a finite life and production rate. It takes a few years from first oil to reach peak production, and then production declines until the point is reached that it is more expensive to produce the crude than the market value, it is the nature of the industry. And thus even with flat demand, exploration will need to continue.

                                I've never understood why so many people in the state seem to have a bullseye on the oil industry as it's the industry that runs the state, and everyone benefits when the industry is healthy.
                                Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

                                If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

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