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Nelchina Moose and Caribou

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  • #16
    Originally posted by BRWNBR View Post
    the days of true road system subsitance are gone.
    I agree when it only costs $100 in gas and 3 hours of driving to get your whole family to either Fairbanks or Anchorage to stock up at costco just like everyone else you are hardly rural anymore you just plan a little different.

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    • #17
      Alaska_Lanche, you know as well as I do that shopping at Costco isn't Traditional and customary.

      What else can be given to these Traditional "Corporations"??

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DEDWUF View Post
        Alaska_Lanche, you know as well as I do that shopping at Costco isn't Traditional and customary.

        What else can be given to these Traditional "Corporations"??
        Exactly my point. These village can still just easily go to Fairbanks or Anchorage in a 12 hour marathon and stock up on food for a month or two for just $100 in gas. Those were always fun.


        Anyways, enough of my hijacking the thread.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Brian M View Post
          Can someone that was at the BoG meetings make sense of what they did with regards to the Nelchina herd? There's an article in today's ADN that explains that the board approved the community harvest permits for the Ahtna villages in the region. It also states that this move does away with the Tier II system, but it doesn't say what is going to be done in it's place.



          So...will there be a drawing hunt for the surplus caribou? Can anyone shed some light?
          What they really meant to say was: The courts will once again have to explain to the BOG what the State of Alaska Constitution really says. The BOG and the attorney for AHTNA know it is unconstitutional, based on their comments made in public forum. A guy in a black robe will explain this to them.

          And doncha think it kinda comical how they are asking for more money and then taking on known legal expenses that could be avoided.

          I predict a delay in the hunting process, because of legal challenges. Wanna bet?

          As bad as the Tier System is, it is still better than allocating specific numbers of game to native villages. This simply will not stand under constitutional grounds. Contrary to what the attorney for AHTNA thinks, we are still a little more equal than he likes to think. At least with the Tier System, we were all treated equally. This gimme notion is running rampant in our society and needs to be nipped in the bud when at all possible. Even if it means having a judge manage the game.
          "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
          ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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          • #20
            The natives taking more back from the white man. I guess this goes along with our country becoming a socialist nation, well at least if you are not a white male.
            I am sick and tired of the native preference. They have the land that only they can hunt, now they are taking away the hunting on public lands.
            Maybe us white males should just start sending our paychecks to them to make sure they are doing ok. :-(

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            • #21
              ummm, do you remember when athna didn't want wages to be part of the application process? They said many athna members were high wage earners.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DEDWUF View Post
                ummm, do you remember when athna didn't want wages to be part of the application process? They said many athna members were high wage earners.

                Their attorney testified to the same jest in public forum, before the BOG this week. Said the Tier System was unfair to the natives with good jobs. And...yet they bought it, hook, line and sinker. This entire session has been one borne of frustration. I think they are giving up, like most conservatives on a national scale and just saying to heck with it, do with it has you will and suffer the consequences. These folks are like everyone else, the can only take so much bickering and they they throw in the towel.

                Everyone is ready to cave in and start sending free fuel to the bush now. The conservative leaders are getting fed up and just saying "have at it, til it's gone".
                "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
                ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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                • #23
                  just what is an alaskan?
                  am i? been here 30 years but i'm white.
                  a native who lives in anchorage and was born in bethel?
                  a traditional use family group in point hope who's never seen pavement?

                  Decision like this fuel racisim...just like folks votin' for obama cause he's black...erase the hunt..blah blah.but plan the race card when it'll win ya the hand...

                  lets drop all this native stuff and start saying alaskans....you lived here year round for 10 years or more, your an alaskan. general drawing when game is limited, drop non res first and go draw...flat out. keep it simple, leave race and tradition outa it. whats a traditional 4-wheeler? or fuel oil stove???
                  Www.blackriverhunting.com
                  Master guide 212

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                  • #24
                    Unit 13

                    We were at Lake Lousie today when we heard about the ruling on Tier II. You bet I have some concerns about this.
                    OK they are going to give the Athna hunters 300 caribou permits for their villages.
                    What is the ratio of bulls/cows going to be and who is going to ensure that this ratio is followed? All animals taken under this system should be required to be checked in at either Cantwell or GlennAllen.
                    What is the season going to be? The season should follow what the season has been in the past and no changes.
                    Who is going to ensure that only the 300 animals are taken? Again the hunters should be required to check in at Cantwell or GlennAllen.
                    Where is the harvest going to take place? In the past we, non-natives, had to make sure where Athna lands were and to stay off those lands. Well I guess that the Athna hunters need to hunt only on their lands. If they need to hunt on State/public lands then they should be required to purchase a 'treaspass' permit from the State for all of their hunters.
                    In the last couple years the salvage requirements were such that you almost needed to bring out the whole animal. Is this going to continue? It should be the same in that one is required to bring out the head, heart, liver, kidneys, hide and all of the meat.
                    In the article Athna talked about providing for the villages and allowing others to join in on this hunt. Is this along the lines of the 100+ caribou that were 'killed' up in the Northern part of the State this last spring and left to rot???? I have not heard much else about this, other then that it was a 'local issue' and that they would handle it. RIGHT!!!
                    I am not 'native bashing' as I work with some natives that are very good, hard working people that I am proud to call friends. No we are not new to the State either. My wifes parent moved here in 1954 and they proved up on a home stead in Delta Junction. I am a 'new comer', having lived in this Great State for 40+ years. For those 'old timers' do you remember the over night Camp outs at the Armory on Jewel Lake road so that you were the frist ones in line to get the permit you wanted? We have come a long ways baby!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BRWNBR View Post
                      just what is an alaskan?
                      am i? been here 30 years but i'm white.
                      a native who lives in anchorage and was born in bethel?
                      a traditional use family group in point hope who's never seen pavement?

                      Good question. I'm 37 and have been here 30 of those years as well. Most all of them in rural, coastal Alaska. I'm not really itching to hunt marine mammals, but given where I live the fact that I can not hunt them legally has been rubbed in my face a few times by a few Alaska Natives, even some who have mostly lived outside. I really wish race was left out of game management in this state.
                      sigpic

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                      • #26
                        never ending battle....

                        This fight over the distribution of Alaska's resources will never end. Everyone has their idea of what is right. Me too. Greed is not race specific. I have been hunting the Nelchina area since 1965 and I have no more right to it's resources then anyone else. I still apply for and usually receive a Tier II caribou permit. Is the old system fair, maybe not. It did appear to be able to stand up when challenged on a constitutional basis. My understanding of the current proposed rules leads me to think they are unconstitutional. It does appear to please some villages and the Anchorage and valley area hunters. We will find out. We have several areas in the way game is alloted that are interesting. We allow non-residents to hunt sheep, brown bear and moose in areas with limited game populations and antler and horn restrictions. We even reserve a certain amount of tags for them so they almost always have to go on guided hunts. Why is that? Tier II receives so much attention because it is accessable from Anchorage and is full of ATV trails. I married an "Alaskan native". At least part of her is. We have chosen to live in Kenai but like to hunt in other parts of the state when possible. Mr. John from Ahtna talks about the high prices for everything in the rural villages and invites us to move there. Well all I can say to that is if it is such a burden move out. The road goes both ways. If you live there because you love it and it is in your blood then have at it. I can understand that. Just quit asking for all the special considerations because of your choices. When I get to be King every resident of the state will be able to hunt and fish equally in this great state in accordance with our imperfect constitution. The hard part will be getting them to understand there is still a need for subsistance hunting and fishing in Alaska. Just not on the road system. Whew!

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                        • #27
                          http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/...03-05-2009.pdf

                          ADFG news link.

                          Big news to me is that after 10 years of no No-Res unit 13 Moose hunting, this year there will be drawing permits for "No-Res large antlered Moose"
                          Don't know about you folks but where I hunt I am finaly starting to see some nice Bulls again. Hope we don't shoot our selfs in the foot and kill them off again.
                          Just my 2 cents...
                          Willy

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                          • #28
                            us shooting moose isn't the problem with the moose population. i think you'll be ok with still seeing big bulls.
                            dropping the spike fork reg would probably do more to help see bigger bulls than any reg we've got on unit 13 moose...
                            kill off the young moose and hope for big ones? i'm thinkin that reg was tossed in to make locals happy and nothing more. don't logicly make any sense.
                            Give the non res a few drawing tags for big bulls isn't gonna hurt anything.
                            i know one coastal village that wil only shoot big bulls, they have a town rule, no little moose. flew it last fall and haven't seen quality bulls like that in one place before...EVER. amazing what a little self control as a group will do.
                            Www.blackriverhunting.com
                            Master guide 212

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                            • #29
                              I know where there are plenty of BIG moose... The problem is it is hike inonly and 10+ miles up in the mountains. That is a LOT of hard work for a moose! I have a friend that hunted them every weekend when he was active duty many years ago. He worked it out with his boss at the time so that he could take a week of leave if he was successful. He would go for 3-4 days at a time hunt then come back out go to work for a couple days then start again. It was a good way to burn 30 days of leave per year!

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                              • #30
                                " Johns, the Ahtna president, said anyone who wants to become eligible for the new subsistence hunt is free to move to one of the villages."

                                What is wrong here isn't who GETS permits, it is who is GIVING OUT the permits. AHTNA is a corp. with only members of one race. I am quite sure the handing out of permits will be done along membership lines.
                                Would AHTNA be satisfied if the German American club handed out the permits?
                                I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
                                I have less friends now!!

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